<p>Parents interested in comprehensive reporting on Greek Life, drinking, and student underachievement should read the new book “The Five-Year Party; How Colleges Have Given Up on Educating Your Child and What You Can Do About It” by Craig Brandon, a journalism professor at Keene State University. Publication date is 2010; it’s a paperback. I’m reading it now, and highly recommend it.</p>
<p>“The connection between party schools and fraternities is a symbiotic relationship. Party schools need fraternities to organize the kinds of illegal activities that attract students, and fraternities need party school administrators who will not crack down on them too hard. In fact, I don’t know of any party schools that don’t have fraternities. Students looking for party schools know this and look for colleges with lots of Greek activity. Many first-class colleges have banned fraternities because of their consistent illegal activities, including life-threatening hazing incidents, rape, and drug dealing. If fraternities seem to be at the center of most of the social activity on campus, it’s a prime warning sign.”</p>
<p>Yippee, your son’s Greek life is not the norm. Don’t delude yourself that it’s anything more than the exception and not the rule. If you believe otherwise then please provide proof. I’m more than willing to give up my ‘prejudice and closedmindedness’ based on fact. </p>
<p>@higgins- unbelievable, just because it’s printed then it must be true.
I also read Pleadged: The Secret life of Sororities, when D1 wanted to join a sorority. I also got nervous, and it turned out life of sororities at her school wasn’t anything like what they wrote in the book.</p>
<p>Williams does not have a Greek life, you can’t tell me that students do not party there. As a matter of fact, I would even venture to say that students party even at some of those most religious schools.</p>
<p>If you don’t like Greek Life then don’t like it. If you like Greek Life than like it. It’s not for everyone (just as no religion is one size fits all). </p>
<p>It is like religious based colleges. Let’s take Brandeis. I understand that although it is “Jewish sponsored” it is nonsectarian. BUT by nature of it’s affiliation, it becomes self selecting. Just like BYU and Norte Dame will not exclude Non-LDS or Non-Catholics, the nature of the University attracts the affiliation. So are the students who attend these Universities, who also have the same religious affiliation, guilty of elitism? I say no. I say they affiliated with a campus they were comfortable with. I also suspect, that many religious colleges would not welcome a student, no matter how qualified, if their religious viewpoints would cause irritation on campus. And I 100% believe they would never admit that the refusal was based in that fact.</p>
<p>As I have explained elsewhere, sorority rush exists to place as many girls as possible in A house on their campus. Maybe not their first or second choice, but A house. A girl who meets the minimum grade requirements and who is pleasant and open when meeting girls at ALL the houses (and who has recs at campuses where they are required, usually the South), should get into A house. </p>
<p>Far, far more girls drop out of rush because they don’t like the houses they get invited back to, than are released by all houses - and this is true even of the big southern state schools such as Bama and Auburn. They even release their recruitment stats showing numbers who withdrew or who were released at each round - I’ve posted them before. Yes, it is sad that there are a few girls who are released completely, but I would argue that the majority of these girls have not met minimum grade requirements - which are made quite clear by panhellenic and the individual sororities at the time of registration.</p>
<p>Except a few schools (maybe only one?? - Indiana) that operate ‘bed rush’ (where the open spots are those vacated by graduating seniors or those who leave, which IS cut throat) the number of girls rushing does not mean a jot. There could be 1000 for 10 houses… if they all make it through to the final round, quota would be 100 (this happens at Ole Miss and Arkansas)… if only 100 signed up, made it through then quota would be 10… </p>
<p>And despite reputations/alleged tiers etc etc, sororities are looking for ALL types of girls in each pledge class: athletes for intramurals, dancers/singers for DM and Greek Sing, creative and arty types for all the posters/banners/homecoming floats/costumes; leaders for the exec positions; peppy girls for leading the chants; religious girls for bible study; girls who love volunteering and community service; social girls who will organise and attend parties and mixers… </p>
<p>At the end of day… you don’t have to go to a school with any Greek system at all. And if you do, you don’t have to rush, and if you do rush, you don’t have to turn in a preference card, you don’t have to accept your bid, you don’t have to initiate, you can drop out, you can go alum… or you can spend your whole time at college not even noticing the Greeks are there…</p>
<p>Excellent explanation SoccerGirl. However, I fear that your message will not get across with any of this group.
Denise, check out greek chat new member class photos of all the different schools. You will see girls that are from all shapes, sizes, colors, etc. That can be your proof.
And to counter the “facts” about how damaging Greek life can be, here are a few more statisics for you.</p>
<p>All but two of the US presidents, since 1825 have been Greek
All but two of the US vice presidents, since 1825 have been Greek
30% of US Congressmen/women are Greek
42% of US Senators are Greek
40% of all Supreme Court Justices have been Greek
30% of Fortune 500 Executives are Greek
10% of all listed in Who’s Who are Greek
71% of Greeks graduate college, while only about 50% of non-greeks do
All of the Apollo 11 astronauts were Greek
Greeks make up only 2% of the US Population</p>
<p>I think you are missing the point here.
If a university admits a student, and they pay tuition and enroll. There are those of us who feel that EVERY such student is entitled to participate in any university-sanctioned activity which they are interested and or qualified. Those activities which require special competency (singing groups, sports, theatrical productions) have qualified professionals performing such assessments. Social fraternities do not require any skill or competency in order to participate and therefore some of us believe that they have no business excluding anyone who wants to join.</p>
<p>None of this discussion has looked at this from the point-of-view of a rejected candidate. To all of you who extol the virtues of fraternity life: what about someone who would have liked to participate in this, but was rejected? They would be within their rights to ask: “Why is my university sanctioning something that I can’t participate in?” </p>
<p>I know, you’re going to say that everybody will get into “some” frat, not necessarily the one they wanted to get into, etc. But if Alpha-Beta-Whatever is a university-sanctioned organization, and I’m a student in good-standing with the university, why should I be excluded simply because a bunch of kids don’t want me there? It’s not like a sports team or an academic program that requires certain qualifications for admission. This is simply arbitrary social criteria being applied to me by supposedly my fellow students, who are really in no position to judge who can or can’t participate.</p>
<p>To those of you who keep talking about how incredibly diverse you kid’s frats are. Let me ask you this: tell me about some of the rejected kids. What were they like? What was so awful about them that a bunch of their fellow students felt compelled to reject them from their organization? Why where they good enough for the university at-large, but not good enough for your frat? What about your kids friend from HS or dorm-mate that got rejected whilst your kid got accepted? Are they still friends, or did the frat serve as a means to drive a wedge through their friendship? How many <em>more</em> friends would they have if there were no frats on campus (essentially everybody is in one-big frat, it’s called the student body)?.</p>
<p>I don’t know about all your other “facts”, but this one is CLEARLY false. Buzz Aldrin went to West Point, which does not have frats (and never did).</p>
<p>
A quick search confirmed that at least Carter, Nixon and Clinton were not fraternity members. There are probably others, but you get my point…</p>
<p>I have a negative gut reaction to the greek system. I did my graduate work at one of the big 10 schools where it has one of the largest undergrad greek populations in the nation. I have been exposed to all sorts of really stupid things these frat boys did - like loud, out of control parties,a caravan of cars with frat symbols clogging the streets bursting at seams with drinking and drunk frat boys with music blaring at 3 AM, littering the whole campus with the toilet paper rolls tossed to the tree branches, etc. If they also did laudable things like charity fund raising and what not, that I couldn’t see, so I wouldn’t know.</p>
<p>My S2 got a full ride ROTC scholarship, and it’s very likely that he will attend Bucknell university. Personally, I like just about everything i read about bucknell, except the heavy duty greek reputation - that concerns me. It has a large greek presence, and it looks like the greek scene dominates the social activities. he says he is not crazy about this kind of group thing, but he is open to the possibility. in the end, he may join: if he does, i hope he does so based on a careful analysis of pros and cons. I will support his decision, regardless of my own bias and sentiment. one thing nice about this school’s greek tradition is that they don’t allow freshmen to rush. i like that: it gives the kids to form social groups and find their place in the university before they have to make a decision on joining or not joining the greek system.</p>
<p>Unlike you, I am not claiming that my limited personal experience or prejudices are universal truths. I’ve known two all-male houses and one coed one, separated over 30 years, none of which conformed to the stereotype you have a deep desire to promulgate. I have also met fraternity members who DO conform to that stereotype.</p>
<p>In general, I am not a fan of Greek life. I abhor the kind of Greek house that selects people based on looks, money, connections, race, and religion. I wish my son’s college had residential colleges instead. </p>
<p>Unlike you, I am the reverse of “closeminded and prejudiced” when it comes to fraternities and sororities, because unlike you I accept the FACT that they are not all the same. Personally, I never had the desire to join one. My S decided to do so, and it works for him in his particular circumstances.</p>
<p>Richard Nixon co-founded a social fraternity known as the Orthogonian Society. Carter and Clinton are the two, though I now think it is three, as I pulled from a page that was not updated because Barak Obama is an honorary member, but was not an active member in college. Buzz Aldrin counts his Mason fraternity membership, since fraternities and sororities are not just a college activity.</p>
<p>When you argue that, could you please provide cites? I can’t see that you have any reason to believe that other than your desire to believe it. In particular, look again at the statistics for Auburn. Every year about 44 (3.7%) of the young women who rush are, at some point during rush, not invited back at any house; that is, no house wants them. Why would you assume that those non-invitations coincided with the houses’ checking of the GPA of the young women? When is that check typically made? In the middle of rush?</p>
<p>Remember that these 44 rejects are in addition to 16 percent or so of rushees who choose to withdraw during rush.</p>
<p>Really? D tried out for 2 campus activities this year (a performance group and a publication). In both groups, the new members were selected by the students currently in the activity. I would not call these “qualified professionals”. Talent/ability has a subjective factor.</p>
<p>C.F. - At my daughter’s school, students had to meet a minimum GPA requirement to even register for rush. From what she could tell when she rushed, when girls were released early from most or (more rarely) all houses, the decision had nothing to do with GPA.</p>
<p>Soze, the Masons are a fraternity! Here is how they define themselves:
“Freemasonry is the word’s oldest and largest Fraternity. It aims to promote Friendship, Morality, and Brotherly Love among its members; men from every race, religion, opinion, and background who are brought together as Brothers to develop and strengthen the bonds of friendship.”</p>
<p>Let’s confine our discussion here to social, invitational fraternities in college. When we talk about Greek organizations on campus, we are not talking about the Masons.</p>
<p>Schools have minimum GPAs to go through recruitment, but the individual sororities have their own requirements. Those released after the first round are often released for that reason. For istance, at one of the schools where I advise, the school requirement is 2.5, but we have a 3.0 GPA requirement. Also, at very competitive recruitments, girls without rec letters are often released after the first round. That can put those who are unfamiliar with the process at a disadvantage at some schools, but letters can be obtained in many ways. I write letters every year for young ladies that have reached out to the local alumni office. After meeting for an interview, I will write the recommendations. At most schools, the rec letters only get you to the second round. In cases where I hear that someone for whom I wrote a rec is released for recruitment, I try to talk to interview them after in order to find out what happened. Everyting from bad grades, previous bad behavior, saying something bad about House A while visiting House B have come to light. At a very competitive SEC school, it seemed to be arbitrary. Since the rankings are confidential, one will never know. As in dating, it is about chemistry. After all, the active members are meeting these girls for 15 or 25 minutes at most.</p>
<p>As a student I did not go greek, though I had plenty of friends in the system. It just “wasn’t for me.” I was busy with the school paper and other things. But I always felt invited to all the parties by all of my friends in myriad houses. </p>
<p>My daughter did join a sorrority and has enjoyed it. It was a bigger factor for her freshman year, since she’s way busier with other things this year, but I would label it a pro, with a few cons.</p>
<p>I think she has benefitted from it, but she wouldn’t call it the most important thing in her life. She has friends from all walks of life on campus and from many houses and isn’t overly invested. But she numbers a few of the girls in the house among her closest friends. She numbers girls who think greek life is ridiculous among her closest friends, as well. </p>
<p>I think it depends on the student, the campus, and outside time committments, personally, as to whether or not it is a good thing. In the end, you raised your kids; you know who they are; you needn’t be concerned they will “lose” themselves in a social club, which is all it really is, in the end.</p>