<p>hyeonjlee, I think that because Greeks are organized social groups, and they have a social budget, they are the ones most able to throw the big parties, the theme parties, and hence at schools where they exist they are the most natural location for the drinking to gravitate to. This doesn’t mean that if there were no Greeks there would be no parties - there are plenty of colleges with no Greeks that do plenty of drinking (first example to pop into my head is Colby. I’ve also been told by many people that social life at Providence, a no-Greek school, mostly involves fake IDs and off-campus bars). But if a Greek organization exists, they are probably most able to organize the larger parties. </p>
<p>Here’s some info from Elon University’s page for parents regarding Greek Life:</p>
<p>Regarding the higher earning power, I don’t know whether joining the frat was a cause or an effect. I read already on this thread that one of the key considerations for choosing a member is the GPA (minimum 3.0???)</p>
<p>So, if they picked the higher GPA students to begin with, of course, their post graduate average income is likely higher</p>
<p>So, is there a study that showed, CONTROLLING FOR THE GPA, the Greek alum still had higher income?</p>
<p>Good point. I don’t know. I also wonder about the cause and effect regarding the retention statistics. If you were unhappy at college and disengaged, would you join a sorority? I suspect the kids who join were more likely to stick around for another year anyway. </p>
<p>But I thought the info was interesting anyway.</p>
<p>Regarding Greek life and positive and negative. I will talk about the both, happily.
Positives: At the majority of campuses that I work with, both fraternities and sororities have mandatory study tables for pledges in order to get them into the habit of studying, provide support and to make sure the GPA requirements are met. It does no good to have pledges that can’t be initiated or stay in school. The bonds made with pledge classes can be significant. The multitude of social and philanthropic activities allow people to meet each other and get to know one another in a variety of settings. There are multiple opportunities within the houses to assume leadership positions. In many schools, Greek students support each other, so campus-wide leadership is quite common. There are numerous networking opportunities with alumni. Because these groups act as support systems, the college retention rate is higher. Lifelong membership can reap benefits from “initiation to grave”.
The negatives: Although more independents die of alcohol poisoning in college overall, a greater number of Greeks drink in college than independents. Hazing, though better now than it was 20 years ago, still exists on many campuses, especially among fraternities. Because fraternities house parties, they are often the site of bad behavior (underage drinking, sexual assault). Sororities houses are not allowed to have alcohol within their houses, but do sponsor mixers outside of the house. Unfortunately, if one bad things happens to a fraternityor sorority, it reflects badly on the entire house (which is why the groups are careful in member selection).</p>
<p>I will also say that I very much disapprove of the colleges (mostly in the South, I think) that conduct rush at the beginning of freshman year. If either of my kids’ schools had done that I’d have strongly discouraged them from going thru rush. </p>
<p>D’s friend is a freshman at a university that rushes at the beginning of freshman year. The friend rushed, ended up with 2 sororities to choose from, and after much nail-biting chose one. A month later, she de-pledged. Why? Because she while trying to find “her” people she joined a lot of interest groups, as well as going thru rush. She knew she wouldn’t have time to do it all, but she figured she’d drop the groups that she didn’t like as much and stick with the ones she did like. It turns out her sorority required far too much of her time, and she found kids she really connected with in 2 of her activity/interest groups. Also, she eventually realized she would have been happier in the other sorority (the one she turned down). So she de-pledged. No harm, no foul, and she did meet a lot of nice girls. But I think if this university held pledging 2nd semester or soph year, she’d have either skipped rush altogether or pledged the “right” sorority for her since she’d have had a semester or a year to watch them and see whether their actions lived up to their words.</p>
<p>Lafalum, In Indiana, IU, Hanover, DePauw and Bulter have deferred rush. It has great advantages, allowing for students to get a feel for college, learn to study, make friends of all kinds. The soroties will rely on 1st semester grades and campus involvement more than the high school resume.
It also has disadvantages, for both the sorority houses and the potential new members.
Since the potential new members have a semester’s worth of gossip attached to each sorority, they often come into recruitment knowing that they would “never join XYZ” since it is the fat girl house, the brainy house, the blonde house, the party house, etc". And teh stereotypes discount the diversity of the houses and the impact that each pledge class has on the house’s success. For the potential new member, that first semester can come back to haunt them during recruitment. Bad grades, bad behavior, bad reputations can come back to haunt otherwise wonderful young women.
In general, I like deferred recruitment because it allows for people to understand the the time commitments, and can often encourage people who would not have rushed right out of high school to give it a try after making friends with others already in sororities.</p>
<p>S is a freshman at an SEC school, which he chose because it is has an excellent undergrad program in his major and because he wanted a large university. He went through rush, which was held the week before classes began, and pledged. I was not thrilled about the idea of having him rush before classes even began. However, S mentioned that because he really had no prior knowledge about many of the houses to color his initial impressions, he visited all of them with an open mind. He really likes the guys in his pledge class and joining the fraternity seems to have expedited his finding a group of people to socialize with more quickly and more efficiently. The pledges are pretty much expected to eat most of their meals at the house when possible (and the university allows students to make changes to their meal plans to accommodate this), which I thought was strange at first; however, this seems to have facilitated the actives and pledges getting to know each other better (and probably benefits the house financially too). He still eats meals in the dining hall, so he is not missing out on that experience, either. The fraternity has get-togethers with other sororities (back in my day we called them mixers); while these can seem contrived to some, they seem no different than the get-togethers that S’s dorm block will have with another dorm block- just another organized activity for people who are new to campus to get to know each other. This has not precluded him from socializing with others who are not in his fraternity or not in the Greek system. </p>
<p>The one complaint my son has had is that there is a lot of studying and memorization of fraternity-related information during pledgeship (they have weekly quizzes!), so we have joked that he is minoring in Alpha Alpha Alpha this semester. There have also been a couple of pledge and fraternity service projects that he’s been expected to participate in. About 10% of the kids who initially joined with him have dropped out, in large part due to the time commitment involved in pledging, which they did not expect. We have visited the fraternity during parents weekend, met the other pledges and actives and their parents, and overall we are happy that he is happy about making this choice. I didn’t get the sense that they were elitist, racist, homophobic, prejudiced against certain religions, etc. They seemed similar to many of the kids my son has been friends with over the years, which is probably why he decided to join this house. </p>
<p>I am not from the South originally but have lived here 20+ years. I once had the same prejudices against large Southern universities, and especially their Greek systems, that many CC posters have expressed. I was in a sorority at a Big 10 school in the early 80’s, when the Greek system was just coming back to life after almost being completely decimated during the late 60’s and 70’s. So, my Greek experience was quite different from the somewhat legendary experiences at SEC schools that I had heard about. But based on S’s experience so far, there seem to be far more similarities than differences in our experiences with the Greek system at our respective schools.</p>
<p>I agree that there are exclusionary cliquish attitudes in sports, music, theater, etc in elementary through high school. Funny thing I discovered about that is the parents most guilty of it are usually former Greeks or those who always felt a need to feel superior to others. They raise kids who perpetuate the cycle.</p>
<p>Sounds to me as if you have had a negative experience(s) with a small group of people and are projecting it on to an entire group. I am sorry for your experiences (really, I’ve been there ,too), but I can not agree with your generalization.</p>
<p>Not asking you to agree. I’m making observation which is shared by most people in my circle the vast majority of which did not participate in Greek life. Perhaps this is unique to my upper middle class area.</p>
<p>I just so happen to socialize with lower class people, so we don’t feel the same. I guess when we are a wanna be we are just not as observant as upper middle people.</p>
<p>I don’t even know how you would KNOW if someone had been “greek” or not, in college. This is just a bizarre statement, all around.</p>
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<p>Again, I don’t know anyone who even talks about this kind of thing in the theater or sports communities. Occaisonally, someone might mention where they went to college if someone’s kid is being recruited by that school, or whatnot…But never, in all the years I’ve had kids, have I heard “greek” as a part of a conversation, and certainly not by those, like me, who chose a different route. </p>
<p>Agreed Poet, who cares. Apparently those who are involved with this and like to share their past involvement with others like we will care.</p>
<p>I have not met a person yet who has said ‘I went to _____ and was NOT Greek.’ I have met numerous people who have said ‘I went to ____ and was ____.’</p>
<p>Or with my kid’s friends when I ask how school is going. None of them indicate they are not Greek. The ones who are involved always mention it.</p>
<p>I really haven’t. But, then, everyone’s experience is different.</p>
<p>Once, when my daughter and I were out and she was wearing a t-shirt with the letters of her sorrority on it cuz we were heading to the gym, a woman stopped and was very excited because she’d been in the same sorrority when she was in college. She gave my daughter her business card and they chatted.</p>
<p>My daughter ended up getting an internship with her company over the summer. But, I’ve never heard anyone just “bring it up” arbitrarily, at all.</p>
<p>Could we please stop lumping the systems in which it IS indeed elitist, cliquish and segregated (though if those people are indeed such snobs - why do you care if they segregate themselves - you don’t want to hang around them anyway … right?) and the systems where Greek life is more toned down and is just something you join if you want to and if you don’t want to, that’s cool too? I am sick and tired of hearing “reasonable” Greek systems like the one I was part of lumped in with the over-the-top fifteen-recs-what-does-your-daddy-make-and-don’t-dare-talk-to-a-Kappa-Chi-they’re-not-our-type. </p>
<p>As for “segregated,” there are black fraternities and sororities. I’m not black, so they were irrelevant to me and my student life, but who am I to suggest that black students who weren’t interested in Panhellenic Greek life might not want a common organization, just like the Catholic students might want to join a Catholic student association, the Jewish students join Hillel, and so forth? </p>
<p>As for “segregated,” I think you’re thinking of parts of the country where segregation is a de facto way of life, and extrapolating that to the rest of the country. Consolation mentioned upthread that her son’s fraternity at Dartmouth had all types, religions, races, etc. That was exactly my experience at NU. Both H’s fraternity and my sorority had members of every race and religion. Both had black presidents during the time that we were on campus (mid eighties) and no one thought twice or batted an eye. I just have to look at the membership list or the website to see that girls are still clearly of every ethnic and religious persuasion. It’s so not a big deal. So could you please stop engaging in your silly they’re-all-WASP stereotype?</p>
<p>It’s a major thing for the various Greek houses to compete in terms of how much money they will raise; indeed, S even talked about it in his “why NU” essay, saying in a lighthearted fashion that he’ll one-up his father. It’s quite a point of pride for the houses when they raise a lot of money, and it’s part of what is considered “making a house good.” Just pointing out.</p>
<p>oldfort, I love you! You can come hang out with the cliquish steel workers and former high school football players. We are not even wannabees around here. We are just has-beens.</p>