<p>Counseling is not in order as long as the people who partake of "Greek’ life are in the vast minority and remain so. It’s easier and much cheaper to ignore them…</p>
<p>unless asked your opinion.</p>
<p>I just hope that buried somewhere deep in this thread is an intelligent discussion of the pros and cons of Greek life. Because there are both pros and cons, despite some people’s blinders. </p>
<p>And denise515, anytime you want to take your own advice and ignore this thread, feel free. Your opinion has been duly noted.</p>
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<p>The post-grad professional networking benefits I found were typically within the NU chapter of ABC, not other chapters of ABC. The networking benefits of other chapters of ABC are more social in nature - e.g., you move to a new community, you don’t know anyone, but ABC has a local alumnae chapter and you can go do things with that club. Nonetheless, I’m still not sure why I would be “responsible” for the (in this case) U of Kansas ABC’s who had a girl die, especially when it happened 2 years AFTER I had already joined the ABC’s at Northwestern. I mean, a prospective member just cannot vet every chapter in the country to make sure there are no bad apples. It doesn’t work that way.</p>
<p>EDIT: I just did an online search and apparently the story that I had always heard about the U of Kansas ABC’s turned out to be a non-story - a girl did die in a fall off the house, but it was related to a freak accident, not related to hazing or drinking as we had always heard. So there you have it. Good thing I didn’t engage in the stereotyping that all ABC’s must be bad because the U of Kansas ABC’s had something bad happen, eh?</p>
<p>
I just have to point out that people who are in denial might be the ones who need counseling, since they seem to think that all criticisms–and even questions–are based on negative “perceptions.” In reading this thread, you might get the impression that there are just a couple of rogue colleges where the Greek system is based on obnoxious social hierarchy and binge drinking. I think it’s a bit more common than that, based on my own “negative perceptions.” But I admit that there are pros and cons to Greek life. But there aren’t very many pros for a person who doesn’t get a bid.</p>
<p>My college students can’t get tickets to football, basketball and concerts sponsored by the university. I find this to be terribly exclusive and think they should either build bigger stadiums and arenas or eliminate all of these discrimintory activities. ;-)</p>
<p>Let’s look at facts.</p>
<p>The strongest predictor of binge drinking is fraternity or sorority residence or membership.</p>
<p>OK. That’s a fact; it’s from the Harvard School of Public Health’s College Alcohol Study. If you deny that clear fact, then you are someone who is not telling the truth about fraternities and sororities, for whatever reason. If that’s the case, why should I believe anything else you say about fraternities and sororities? </p>
<p><a href=“Redirect Notice”>Redirect Notice;
<p>Cardinal Fang, who was denying that? </p>
<p>And are frats and sororities are the only places where people binge drink? Or are you inferring that joining a frat or sorority will somehow cause someone to become a binge drinker?</p>
<p>ALL FRATERNITIES AND SORORITIES ARE NOT ALIKE.</p>
<p>Yes, some are weak excuses for partying. Those probably have a LOT of binge drinkers. I don’t doubt that you can find at least one of these on every campus with Greeks, and I’d venture to say maybe half or more of frats/sororities them at least loosely fit this description. </p>
<p>But SOME DO NOT. Some are houses full of diversity - economic, racial, religious and alcohol-consumption-wise. </p>
<p>To claim that ALL frats or sororities are havens for binge drinkers is like saying that all colleges are the same or all college students are the same.</p>
<p>This is my son’s biggest frustration with the Greek system at his college. 3 of the 6 houses on campus appear to exist for party purposes only. The other 3 do not. But when one of the 3 rowdy ones gets in trouble, all six houses get blamed - “those d*mned fraternities.” His frat has already hosted 3 philanthropic events THIS SEMESTER (fundraisers for children’s charities - a barbeque, a pancake breakfast, and a haunted house. They also helped a sorority host a Halloween party at the Boys & Girls club.) Is any of that in the campus newspaper? Nope. But the other frat’s rowdy party, and their vandalism is. His frat has ZERO violations in the past year.</p>
<p>How is it fair to paint ALL Greek organizations with the same brush?</p>
<p>Amen Lafalum!! Unfortunatley, this argument could go on for years and years…</p>
<p>soze:
denise515:
</p>
<p>You need to have an open mind regarding this. Not all colleges have the sterotypical Fraternities and Sororities.
This is what I found on an independent web site regarding DD college Greek Life. 50% of male students participates in Fraternities.
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<p>denise515:
</p>
<p>Certainly true, but you need to reserach to find out that the Greek life at your Son’s college is actually stupid.</p>
<p>Your analogy to smoking crack is not appropriate. You can compare this to motor sports. Racing on the highway is stupid and many people do that but racing on a race course is not.</p>
<p>Intervenient :
</p>
<p>At DD’s college even though drinking is rampant @ Frat parties and is free. The boys in Frat house seems to have a happy, fullfilling life and when it comes to academics I don’t think you can touch these boys.</p>
<p>soze:
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<p>A simple search of President Clinton wiki shows this:
</p>
<p>Give up, POIH. Denise and company known what they know, and any facts to the contrary aren’t penetrating the invincible armor of smugness.</p>
<p>It’s funny. <em>I</em> actually am generally anti-greek. I share the same dim view of such organizations, and cut my teeth on the same negative stereotypes. But I can’t help noticing that I’ve been fairly familiar with three houses–one coed, two male-- at two different schools, and NONE OF THE THREE have conformed to the stereotype. I think it unlikely that I have stumbled upon the only three houses in the USA that don’t. So I’ve had to grudgingly admit that the scene is more nuanced than I originally thought. </p>
<p>But there are those whose zealotry gets in the way of absorbing information that does not conform to their theology.</p>
<p>Lafalum84:
</p>
<p>DD’s college hold pledges in the freshman year and according to DD was a very fullfilling experience. She didn’t find it to be a negative and since her college is very hard academically, having it in the first semester seems the best option as all subjects are graded on a pass/fail and that provides students time to adjust to environment/social scene and academics.
According to her holding the rush in any other semester would have reduced the participation to minimum as the academic work load increase drastically after the first semester.</p>
<p>denise515:
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<p>There seems to be a contradiction here denise515. If you equate whole process of Greek life to elitism then there should be higher probability that an upper middle class area would have more than normal Greek people.</p>
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<p>Sure. But that should not prevent us from looking at average, typical or common facts about fraternities. Lafalum, you say that your son’s fraternity is full of hard-working, fun-loving, public-spirited young men, but fully half the fraternities at his school are havens for drunken, loutish vandals. Why is his school acquiescing in this system? Why does it permit havens for vandals on campus?</p>
<p>They’re hardly havens for vandals. Good grief.</p>
<p>Really? What does the area around their frats look like on Sunday morning?</p>
<p>I read at the beginning of this thread and the last page so don’t know what I missed, but S surprised us and joined what seems like a very nice fraternity. He spent much of his first year alone and disenchanted with most of the friends he made on freshman hall - kind of a wild bunch. He does drink a little - responsibly. He has not seen drug use at his house. He’s not much for the house parties, but loves having a house to go to for studying, watching TV, and just when he wants to be around people. He enjoys the many new friends he’s met who seem to share his values.</p>
<p>OTOH, his grades have suffered a bit this term and he’s trying to work his way back before the end.</p>
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<p>I would also not be comfortable if this is the norm at DD sorority at national level. Is it possible to stop all such incidents? may be not but if it is the norm then that is not a sorority to be associated with.</p>
<p>We do receive DD’s sorority magazine at our house address as that is the address she seems to have provided and it seems like a good sorority and have lot’s going on other than the reunion or tea parties.</p>