It doesn’t matter to the perpetrator how you were raised. It is all about them having the opportunity to do something.
My daughter is as strong as they come and she had sexual and racial harassment at one job.
Agree, it depends upon the environments you find yourself in and how the people you interact with are raised as to whether you will be harassed or otherwise ill-treated. It really is about power and how it can be used and abused as well as how much one is exposed to opportunistic creeps and bullies in public and private venues.
Taking back our bodies isn’t about some tv show where your brain’s in a jar and you want to get put back together, lol. It refers to regaining the respect not to be treated as an object by others who feel you’re theirs to do with as they wish.
Our parents may raise us to be strong, wise, etc. But the issue starts with the perp. Don’t pretend that feminist mamas somehow ensured this problem won’t affect us. Look around.
And a mark of real feminism is concern for women, not simply “I’m ok, so there must be something wrong with *her.” * That feels anti-feminist, to me.
Terrific. Now imagine a strong feminist daughter raised by a strong feminist mother. The daughter is smart and assertive. She and her best friend from Stanford, also smart and assertive, have a great idea for a startup. They make a business plan, make a prototype, and approach venture capitalists. And the venture capitalists indicate that in order to get money, they need to grant sexual favors-- a problem which, I regret to say, has been rampant in Silicon Valley.
The young women can say no, but they won’t get the money. They can try to report the abusers, but to who? They can try to publicize the abuse, but then they have no chance of getting their funding from anyone. While they’re trying to deal with this, their male classmates have gotten funding and are busy hiring and developing. The problem here is not the feminists; it’s the men.
Stop telling us that being a feminist can stop harassers. It can’t. The problem is the harassers, not the harassed.
@“Cardinal Fang” Well said…“The problem is the harassers, not the harassed.”
Honestly I don’t think I would do business with someone who tried to extort sexual favors. And in my mind that is extortion. Yes the problem are the harassers or extortionists but no one says you have to work with them or give up your principles.
Neither would I. Now explain how being a feminist helps women get venture capital without being harassed.
We need to expose and crack down on harassers and stop pretending that being a feminist helps: so our daughters can get venture capital just like our sons can, our daughters can get to be executive chefs just like our sons can, our daughters can become comedians just like our sons can, our daughters who work at low wage jobs can be safe from masturbating hotel guests and grabby restaurant patrons just like our sons who work in low wage jobs. In other words, we need to expose and crack down on harassers and stop pretending that being a feminist solves the problem, because being a feminist means we believe our daughters should get the same chances and the same working conditions our son gets.
I couldn’t agree more. Imagine if all those Hollywood women would have said “this is BS” and walked out the door. Imagine if the Al Franken women would have picked up the phone and told him what he did was unacceptable and she’d sue his ass from here to Sunday if he ever stuck his tongue down her mouth in a staged kiss again.
My girlfriend who married young , had kids and divorced young and put herself through law school and her kids through college single handedly and I were having coffee yesterday and she also thinks it is high time younger women get tough in the here and now because things are a heck of a lot better than they used to be and there is no excuse for feeling victimized in a situation you can handle. It is one thing to be a victim because you are powerless to stop something because of actual force and it is another thing to be a victim because you didn’t stop something you could have or address it right then and there. That mindset change is what will be real change in my opinion. You can’t govern it away or police it away…it has to come from within. That is the power. Of course there will still be victims of evil people…rape, pediphilia and murder will never be eradicated in my opinion but if I and friend learned anything from me too we learned that there ate a heck of a lot of younger women who do not feel empowered to own their own bodies. And I find that very troubling moreso than the older ones who were victims of abuse back when they possibly were raised not to feel empowered.
You cannot FEEL empowered if the person who is harassing is your supervisor in a job you need and it’s always a “he said, she said situation” with no witnesses. Yes, SOME victims are SLOWLY being given some support while others are vilified and worse.
There is no one pat and simple answer when our President bragged about his groping ways and then was elected and still has NEVER tendered ANY apology.
It is easy for some to say what OTHERS should do and that things are better and different now. In some ways, yes, there have been some changes but from the barrage of “me too,” we have a LONG ways to go. I would never second-guess any person’s decision to come forward with s formal complaint vs remain silent. I applaud the bravery of all who step forward publicly but certainly understand the many who choose not to subject themselves to the additional pain and publicity.
One thing that might make a difference is cell phones. In the past we couldn’t “prove” something and it was he said/she said. Now you could record incidents and it will be he said/he’s a jerk.
Yes, in many states, only one party needs to consent to audio or video recordings so they could be helpful BUT the harasser COULD try to complain it’s doctoted/fake.
Excellent, Himom.
All the generations this crap has been going on, there have been too many who made blanket statements about no excuses for feeling victimized when you “could” have handled it. And that only added/adds to a climate of intimidation by promoting self guilt and then silence.
Count yourself lucky if you were never cornered. But don’t judge the next gal. Don’t assume she’s meek or stupid. Not so fast.
@“Cardinal Fang” : Posts #63 and #66 are excellent. I couldn’t agree more. Very well said.
Maybe the third or fourth time that you find yourself in a similar situation, you might have a good idea how to address it, but I think that typically, girls and young women are caught by surprise when they’re touched or propositioned or subjected to offensive behavior, and they may react in ways that – upon later reflection – were not optimal.
The last thing a 14-year-old girl who was touched inappropriately by the father of the kids she was babysitting needs to hear is that she didn’t handle the situation properly.
I don’t think in those absolutes…a 14 year old is not an adult and in most places it would be illegal. Used to be parents didn’t let their kids date until 16 and there is a good reason for that.
I heard a woman on a podcast mention that many of us have internalized a protection-from-harm strategy where we are very careful about how we reject a man’s advances.
I hadn’t thought of it that way, but after hearing her say it (much more eloquently than I’m saying it here), I agree. There is a knee jerk strategy to not escalate the situation, fearing the man’s retribution for rejection. Of course, this is amplified when a woman is alone (vs with a group of friends).
The way many women respond, with ignoring, avoidance, quietly removing themselves from the situation, can give men (& other observers) the impression that women must not mind so much (touching, cat calling, sexual advances).
^She said babysit, not date. And I think that the babysitting scenario happens a lot more often than we hear about, I know I was propositioned several times but never “pushed”. Of course, I never babysat for those families anymore and never felt the need to tell my parents. I never felt truly victimized but those instances certainly cost me sitter jobs.
Whether young women are feminists or not, whether they feel empowered or not, the duty of of preventing male-on-female harassment lies with the male(s) in the interaction. “[It’s] high time younger women get tough in the here and now,” really??? Women deserve better than that. My sons deserve better than that – where’s the expectation, the realization, that men are held to and uphold standards? Instead of it being the burden of the females around them to police it? Why are women and not men being issued the imperatives here?
In case someone has never heard this story:
From this website: https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/meir-golda
Sorry, women are NOT the problem here. It is SO offensive to suggest that they are.