<p>You need to be less concerned about whether he likes you than whether he respects you. At this stage, I’m trying to get S2 to respect my feelings, my time, my efforts. I could probably deal with him not liking me (which he swears isn’t true) if he showed more respect. Like you, I dont like being treated like a doormat.</p>
<p>HB, Does your husband feel the same rejection? Also, do you work?</p>
<p>Helen, I didn’t mean to sound harsh, and reading it over, I realize I did. But I think the right approach is to expect the same respect from him that you’d expect from a friend–if not more! </p>
<p>You keep coming back to his not liking to get up before 3. Any possibility he’s suffering from depression?</p>
<p>I didn’t find your post harsh at all. I appreciate being able to work through this before I approach him as opposed to calling him and shrieking hysterically, so I take all the wisdom offered. Honestly, it just resonated with me. </p>
<p>I don’t think he’s depressed, although from the amount I interact with him it would be hard to really assess it accurately. He did really well in school this year, loves his roommates and is always cooking for them and doing things. I think I keep bringing up the 3:00 thing because it feels like an obstacle, and it also feels like almost an affectation, because he seems to find great pride and humor in the fact that his phone alarm is set for 3 P.M. I’ve never really said anything about it. When he was home for a few days at the beginning of the summer I didn’t complain, but that’s part of the reason I don’t look forward to having him home. We can’t go out to lunch. We certainly can’t have breakfast together, and he’s most happy to interact and chat well past midnight. I stayed up for a couple of nights just to enjoy his company, but my middle son was doing summer gym so I had to be up every day at 7. I’d drive him to gym, come home, and fall asleep on the couch until noon. Not exactly a treat for my 11 year old to get up and wait for mom to drag herself off the couch! It’s just disruptive. </p>
<p>Or maybe I’m just picking at things because I’m mad at him.</p>
<p>If he’s living in your house, I don’t see why you can’t expect him to be up at 9 and doing things to earn his rent. Either that, or he pays rent–and he gets a job where he can show up at 4, like bartending or night-stocking at Home Depot.</p>
<p>*I think I just need to do what would make me feel better, which is to drive to Bloomington, slit his tires, egg his van, and call it a day. I’m kidding. *</p>
<p>Thanks for the lol moment. I do think that because you have been so accommodating, he has no idea that you are not happy with him. You have a great sense of humor so you can approach it without being confrontational yet at the same time make your feelings and expectations known.</p>
<p>Both my kids only seem to get in the mood to talk at one in the morning - okay for me, I’m a night owl, but dh missed out on a lot of conversations. The Karen Pryor book mentioned earlier, is a great book, I found it very helpful when my kids were little, but as much for husband issues as kid issues.</p>
<p>Helenback - regarding the sleeping in to 3pm…</p>
<p>My son does the same thing (if he doesn’t have a class or elsewhere to be). He’s a great student (3.8GPA), has a robust social life, doesn’t sleep through class, can get himself up to get to 8am classes, etc. He has, however, been complaining he can’t get to sleep until 3am most nights and he doesn’t feel rested even after 10 hours of sleep. We just had a sleep evaluation done on him and to our shock, it looks like he has narcolepsy (we are awaiting the final results but the results are consistent with it per the sleep lab folks).</p>
<p>It’s difficult with college students because many of them operate on a nocturnal schedule and their circadian cycles tend to get messed up but sleeping every day until 3pm isn’t a good sign. Just something you might want to think about it and keep an eye on…many sleep disorders start in the teens and early 20s. Most of them go undiagnosed for 15-20 years - long after they have adversely affected the person’s life.</p>
<p>
This was the solution a friend’s S finally landed on. He does the night work at a Target. He had all kinds of problems before holding jobs, he is ADD and also a night owl. Getting up and getting distracted were giving him all kinds of problems. Now he gets up on his own rhythm and there are fewer distractions. It’s a start at being successful anyhow.</p>
<p>My S sleeps till 3 too! I’m so glad there are others. He also has decent grades and seems to be able to get up and function on a more regular schedule if he has too. But when he’s home, it drives me crazy.</p>
<p>Helenback - I have a son who will sleep until 3 (as will my husband) if I let him. On days that I want to do something with him earlier, I let him know the day before (maybe 2 days)
and he arranges to be up in time.</p>
<p>I know he arranges his classes around sleeping late, which unfortunately results in not taking the best classes, IMO.</p>
<p>I remember sprinkling water on him to get him up for high school when nothing else would work.</p>
<p>Helenback, I’m sipping my Sunday coffee and reading this thread because I am sometimes in this boat with my daughter. My D is a junior in college, so I’m still living this myself, but my S is a HS senior, so I’m sure I’ll be needing my own advice in another 1.5 years. My D is starting her 3rd year of college, but has been away this summer taking a few classes. In my D’s freshman year, I felt suddenly cut off cold turkey when she started school. It was almost as if she had decided to not talk to us on purpose in order to start on her new life. It was most shocking for me because her and I talked nearly every night before going to bed up until this point. Suddenly I knew nothing about her life or who she was meeting or how she felt about everything she was experiencing. The first year was very hard, but I continued to send cookies, cards, notes, just so she would know I was thinking about her. Finally, after nearly 2 semesters of rare communication, I finally told her that all the mom services were ceasing until she committed to calling us once a week, her choice of time. It actually worked for a while, until her a cappella group decided to start practicing at that time (Sunday evening). She stayed with us that summer, all chatty again, and then when the school year started her sophomore year, again, no regular calls. I reminded her of our deal, and once she started the weekly calls again, I resumed the ‘mom services’ but without the cookies as she claimed she didn’t want to gain weight. </p>
<p>What I wanted to share with you was feedback on the in-person visits. Your son is old enough where a mom suddenly showing up on campus uninvited (I’m coming to meet you for lunch) is not building the relationship you want. I live 4 hours away from my D, and only visit when it makes sense for her schedule. The reason is that when she’s working on a project or longer term assignment, she really doesn’t have the brain space to chit chat about family or personal things with me. If she names the date and time, then she is expecting it, is ready for it, and there is also hopefully something mutually beneficial out of it. However, when it is time to re-assess her budget, we do not give her any money until she commits to a longer discussion (via Skype or phone) to review her finances, what we are paying and what expenses she has to cover. We have been doing that money dump once a semester, and we cover her rent, utilities, and food, but she has to cover entertainment, haircuits and other expenses. We make her fill out the spreadsheet of expected total expenses, and we don’t transfer the money until that conversation has happened. Our name is also on her lease, so perhaps we are taking a chance, but I think she is motivated by the fact that the landlord could kick them out if the rent isn’t paid on time. It’s hard to find another apartment in her location in Boston! </p>
<p>Anyway, she’s now going into her junior year. Both my husband and I have made specific trips to see her this summer. When we go, we plan the fun, and she comes along for the ride. He took her to see a baseball game (with her HS-aged brother) and I did a ladies weekend with her with my sister-in-law and her cousin. These kind of visits were far better than us just joining her for a dinner where she felt interrogated by us (how are your classes, when is you next big project, how do you think you’re doing this semester, etc). The reality is that she is a good student (like your sons) and she feels ownership for her school success. Once she sees that we are a source of fun (the visits we did this summer, working around her availability) she opened up more and was happy to see us. </p>
<p>Regarding your texts and emails … I used to do the same thing, and then would be disappointed that she didn’t reply to them. Don’t expect a reply to these unless it is an emergency. Your son has enough on his plate and doesn’t need more assignments from mom and dad. Save these for the weekly check-in, but don’t barrage him with only these required to-do’s from the parents. If your son receives your emails, he is likely reading them, so think of it as topics building up to the next check-in … he can answer your e-mails verbally when he checks-in, but you have given him topics to think about or act on ahead of time. I found that I was sending those early texts and emails partly because I missed her and wanted some connection in that moment, but had to let my tether go on that concept because it was strangling her.</p>
<p>So, net of my long post …
- make your son show a commitment to a reasonable weekly communication (logical consequence … no money). For your son, it clearly can’t be a morning check-in!
- if you do go to see him in person, make it be for something fun that you both will benefit, and on a schedule that works around his school projects and tests, and his work schedule.<br>
- Don’t expect answers to texts or emails in between those weekly updates … that does feel like homework, and unless it is an emergency, is overkill on your part.<br>
- Last but not least, and a poster before me reminded me of this, when he does something that you want, like call, even for the weekly required check-ins, reward that with ‘How nice to hear from you’ or ‘So nice of you to remember our check-in time.’ By rewarding the things you want and ignoring the other stuff, you’ll both be less stressed over time.</p>
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<p>Actually, I just used honesty with my sons (who generally are typical male non-communicators). I just told them that I needed to hear from them sometimes, and that I didn’t want to be a pest, but that I needed to hear from them sometimes. And that now that they were adult college men, not little boys, that as adults they had to sometimes think about others and their needs, including mommy’s. So that they should text or call when they had a few minutes…and that way I wouldn’t be bothering them when it wasn’t as convenient.</p>
<p>And this worked! I get a good number of random communications from them (and now my daughter-in-law as well) because they understand that it makes me happy and is not a big deal. I keep it short and sweet and always let them know I appreciate it. If it’s been a while I don’t say anything because I know that all of a sudden they will realize it on their own. Sometimes the communicate almost more than I expect…sort of like they figure that they will give me a minute when they have a chance so that they don’t have to think about it later on when they are too busy having fun…but it works for me!</p>
<p>My boys have also told me to let them know up front what I want /need because they are not mind readers. So I will text…“missing you…” and they will find a moment in the next day or two. Or I will text " I need to do…by Xday" and they know what info I need and when I need it. </p>
<p>I think that realizing it’s not all about them is good for young men, and also sets them up for having successful adult relationships with significant others.</p>
<p>I am finally facebook friends with all of them but I never post on their accounts, nor do I ever comment to them about anything I see on their walls. Not even on a series of pictures with a really cute girl I would like to know about!</p>
<p>boysx3 … Very good idea not to post on their facebook! I learned that quickly … I was almost ‘unfriended’ but the moment passed.</p>
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<p>I was fairly strict with son through most of HS but when he went off to college last fall I made a deliberate decision to not show disapproval about his lifestyle choices. I fully understand that the culture at virtually all colleges includes drinking, smoking pot (or worse), staying up and out all night, etc. I also understand that many kids get done in by those activities. So I decided instead of telling him don’t ever do that (naive to think that the majority of college students don’t partake in those activities at least some of the time), I decided it was better to acknowledge that we are aware that he might do those things and we weren’t going to be mad at him. </p>
<p>This approach has been a game changer in our relationship with son. He became much more open with us and that has allowed us to coach him about the pluses and minuses of these activities. We have some non-negotiables - like not drinking and driving, maintaining his grades, etc. Now instead of avoiding talking to us, he listens when we talk about the perils of drinking too much or how to spot signs you are developing an addiction. He has even told us that he can see problematic behavior in some of his friends and doesn’t want to go that route. This worked for me. Son is much more open about his activity when he doesn’t feel he will be judged or chastised for them. Of course, I tell him there are some things I simply don’t want to know. :)</p>
<p>This is all good stuff and very comforting to read! </p>
<p>I’m not going to post on his Facebook wall because he never responds. It’s not like I’m asking him if he’s taking his vitamins on Facebook. My last two posts were a clip from Louis CK and a quote from his brother—who when asked what kind of dog our older, somewhat chubby labrador retriever is responded with,“She’s a Black Flab.” Funny, right?! </p>
<p>Silpat, I think you’ve hit on what the issue is with him. I haven’t tried to direct or control him at all in these college years, but it’s like he still assumes I’m going to be this authoritarian. I’ve only visited when it’s convenient and I’m very careful not to overstay my welcome. I never just say,“I’m coming.” I say,“I was thinking of coming. How does this work for you?” Part of this whole thing stems from me trying to be very respectful and non-threatening and letting him know that I know he’s an adult. I tried so hard to respect his adulthood that he looped back around into childhood again!</p>
<p>And boysX3, so funny that your said that about your boys responding to the direct approach. My best friend died from cancer about 18 months ago, and I’m very close with her college aged daughter. She also has five brothers. She called to talk to me about how she blew up at her brothers because she’s been feeling very left out, and that they just don’t talk much to her. They don’t ask how her day was. They don’t seem interested in hanging out with her…And I said, huh, I’m having the same problem. I guess it doesn’t always divide strictly down gender lines because Snowflake you mention your daughter, but it does seem to be more of an issue with boys. Anyway, she said,“Am I crazy for yelling at them?” And I said that she wasn’t, and that they probably had no idea she was feeling that way. They’re nice guys. I think they’ll make more of an effort.</p>
<p>It was funny though, that hour long phone call from a girl and we talked and talked and talked. We talked about her summer job and how vacation will be without her mom, and what magazines she should buy for her trip,and what she’ll read on the beach, and movies and…It was awesome! But I don’t know if I’d have the energy for that every day. I’d be happy with one of those a month with my son. </p>
<p>Boysx3 said “I think that realizing it’s not all about them is good for young men, and also sets them up for having successful adult relationships with significant others.”</p>
<p>Agreed. Now I just have to find a graceful way to do it. I know getting angry or very emotional would not be well received. I feel much better after hearing from all of you, and more able to step back and handle it like a parent instead of worrying so much about a misstep.</p>
<p>And oh, the self control required not to ask about the cute girl in the pictures! I’m impressed. I never ask questions based on anything I see on Facebook because I don’t want him to feel I’m being intrusive. I only post funny stuff, so hey, his loss!</p>
<p>I just want to thank everyone who’s posted on this thread, and especially to the OP, Helenback. It’s so reassuring and helpful to read how different parents have responded to this problem. I have a D too, a fairly talkative one, so it sometimes makes the gap with S more noticeable. On the other hand, as Helenback commented “I don’t know if I’d have the energy for that” when referencing the chatty call with the young woman! It CAN be exhausting to have too much conversation :)</p>
<p>Anyway, I picked up some very useful ideas here and intend to try them out. Thanks again, all. I need to add this particular subject to my expanding list of countless ways CC (the parents’ board in particular) has enlightened me.</p>
<p>This thread has been helpful to me. I thought that I was the only mother that had to struggle to get words from my child. D would never stop talking as a child but somewhere in middle school she sure quit talking to her parents. We have tried hard to give her space and freedom to live her life but sometimes it would just be nice to know that she is alive and well. </p>
<p>I found out the day she was leaving for Pakistan that she was leaving that night (from Facebook). She let us know she arrived. Now I just have to wait until I get lucky and she feels like writing a sentence or two. When she lived in Morocco I never got anything other than it was fine. I expect the same now. I try not to take it personally. She truly believes that there is nothing going on in her life that I would find interesting. I would love for this to change but I don’t think it will. All requests for communication are answered with there is nothing going on. If I tell her I just want to know she is alive she tells me the State Dept. would notify me if sue went missing.</p>
<p>thanks all, I needed this thread today!</p>