Keep in mind, as well, that sometimes, the very pricey schools can cost less than the price tag. The colleges and grad schools my two daughters attended (NYU/Tisch, Brown, MIT, UC-Berkeley), while quite expensive institutions, ALL offered substantial scholarships/grants/fellowships to my kids. Even so, I’m still paying loans for some part of the cost for all four schools for a ten year period post graduation. So, I’m still writing checks.
I don’t believe these schools mean any more success for the student because it is about the person, not the school they attended. But the experience these schools provided really were the right place for my kids and so it was worth it to me. It is not as if I am rich by any means! In fact, it is quite a challenge to pay for it.
I think the consensus should be that make sweeping judgements based on ONE of the life choices (where to send their kid to college) a family has made, might lead to erroneous assumptions. To buck the trend- I have a 3 year old Mini Cooper. but I drove the car I had before that for 11 years
I’ll throw something in that’s likely going to be controversial, but here goes. Everyone will have their reasons as a family to choose one school over another, to decide how much debt to take on, etc. Our philosophy as parents is we want each of our kids to graduate without any loan debt so we started saving earlier, etc. MY d cfor example took Northwestern off her list when she saw we’d have to come up with about 50% of the tuition every year plus room and board, etc,; it would have been around 40 k a year and she decided even before my wife and I that wasn’t realistic.
What I will say that would be controversial, though, is that I wonder if there is too much emphasis placed on a good “fit” and a child being absolutely happy on a specific campus. Is “fit” and relative degree of happiness really worth the much higher costs one might have to pay for 4 years vs. the daunting task of then having that debt affect either a child’s future or a parent’s future retirement plans, etc.? In other words, maybe a lesson to teach is that kids should be able to adapt to realities of financial circumstances and make the best out of a college experience that may not be their dream choice?
A post on another thread recently said something like “You really can’t understand what this process is like until you’ve gone through it…just like you don’t know what it feels like to be a parent until you become a one.” (Apologies for not crediting the OP on this!)
Couldn’t be more true.
The most helpful advice on this forum is based on experience…the sharing of personal stories and perspectives to help others…as is so often the case.
It’s not, however, helpful to criticize people who are generously and unselfishly sharing the challenges, choices and decisions made on their own journey…or to suggest we know how to better navigate another’s experience.
(Also not helpful to insinuate the value placed on one world-class educational experience over another is determined arbitrarily.)
The majority of us worked on school lists with our children for months if not years, and undoubtedly have used extensive criteria beyond name to evaluate programs.
And…BTW…low end Honda CRV.
Cheers @halflokum!! Wish I could join you!!
What I took away from this thread is that certain people did what it took to pay for a more expensive , top tiered reputation school. They took out loans, their child took out loans, they dipped into savings, or they simply had the money already. They think that those schools are providing unparalleled opportunities to their child and they no doubtedly are. They made this choice. I am not shaming anyone for doing this. I know the stress induced by your kid choosing this major. It is about what you are willing to take on. I do agree with @jeffandann that there is a benefit to saying to your kid "make do with what we are willing to pay and what is available to you and of course we would love for you to attend x name school, but these are your choices.
But having said that, I suppose if the expensive school isn’t creating any financial burden to you or your kid then there you go…
Quick story about how our D’s undying interest in a top tier school saved our family vacation. Cue up dramatic music. So we decided to travel from middle America to Washington DC with four of our 6 children for Spring Break. We piled into our 2004 Chevy Suburban aka The Beast, and traveled east. As we neared Pittsburgh, our D asked if we could just “drive by Carnegie Mellon.” She wanted to show her siblings and Dad the object of her affections, and drool one more time. CMU has always been her dream. She views it as the most serious of acting schools in the MT context. She loves the campus. She loves how many universities are in Pittsburgh. She has dance friends at Pointe Park. CMU would be the ultimate in her mind for many reasons … But I digress.
We indulged her and headed into Pittsburgh. As we neared Forbes Avenue, my husband noticed steam or smoke rising from under our hood. We limped to a quiet side street and called AAA. A tow truck hauled it to a nearby garage for repairs. It was the water pump. If that had happened while traveling over the allegheny mountains at 70 MPH, our engine could’ve been toast. We could’ve been in a bad accident. As it turned out, it cost us under $400, and we spent the day exploring Pittsburgh and CMU. D even saw Don in the distance and tried to catch up with him (she lost him). But, we all agree that we are happy that CMU is on our D’s radar.
@theaterwork We would have taken out loans (and would have had to) if our kids did NOT go to top tier schools. It didn’t matter which school they attended. Also, as I wrote earlier, my kids got excellent financial aid and scholarships/grants at so called “top” schools. It really wasn’t about “top tier.” Paying for college is a challenge no matter what schools our kids got into or attended.
In terms of “fit,” part of it for my kids was something like why they would choose Honors classes in HS over the regular track classes. These fit them better. They were not happy in classes that did not fit them.
Yes, I do believe students make do no matter where they are planted. My kids went to a no-name public high school and had a lot of accommodations and acceleration and so on to make it work and were able to succeed and go to the colleges of their choice. However, their college experiences were better than their high school ones because the fit was better.
PS, I don’t have a Honda or Toyota. But my car is 9 years old and I don’t see how I will be able to replace it any time soon.
LOL @jbrideau! I consider The Beast my ticket out of town. It’s been to the Atlantic, the Pacific, the Gulf of Mexico, the Rockies, the Upper Peninsula and everything in between. So many memories made on the road in the Beast, many where we laughed so we wouldn’t cry. We have the middle front seat so all 8 of us could travel together in comfort. :))
I think the top tier schools are top tier for a reason. It is not like a designer handbag where you are paying for the label…
These schools offer excellent training, opportunities and connections, often at a very high price tag.
My d is still a few years off, and I have no idea what her path will look like. I do think the elusive fit is so important and has to be balanced with your families financial situation. It certainly is different from my experience, where you applied to one or two state universities, and as long as you were an OK student you got in. I was considered a rebel because I went to University in a neighboring state.
I love reading CC because I have learned so much… I am trying to get my British H to read as well… he has NO idea what he is in for!!!
When talking about “fit” @soozievt , would you say that there were schools on your original list that were , perhaps, lesser known schools, that were a good “fit” for your child? And if so, and one of those would have been a good fit (or they wouldn’t have been on the list to begin with) and your child got accepted and the school your child ended up attending (NYU? I can’t remember ) was a good fit but was requiring so much more in loans and $ etc… did you choose NYU because of the opportunities & at least reputation of the school? I am assuming your child is very talented and sounds resourceful so wouldn’t she have done well at the other school too? Just wondering …I’m guessing you will say it was the opportunities that NYU provides that the other school didn’t and you felt the additional $ was worth the financial stretch, unless both schools turned out to be equal in cost with the financial aid you stated you received.
I know everyone is saying the name doesn’t mean anything but come on folks …it has to come into play at least a LITTLE…I don’t see how it couldn’t, and it’s really ok to admit it. I don’t think you’re a bad person for Lords sake just by saying " yes it is just a bit nice to say my kid goes to so & so…" I mean truly that school name might indeed get your kid in a door at an audition , not get them the part perhaps but it might get them an " opportunity" that might not happen for someone else. I’m not so naive to think it doesn’t come into play, of course it does. Everyone always talks about the connections these schools provide.
Just like people interview someone for an educational field & it might perk up their interest if the interviewee went to an Ivy League school. That person might not get the job but they might have gotten called for the interview because of the reputation and prestige of the school on their resume.
I’ve thought of a few other things I’d wanted to mention on this subject.
When D decided to apply ED to her top choice school, which was expensive for her first couple of years, we discussed the fact that we could make it work BUT it meant that we would provide no help with any extras during school, expenses during summers, or post-college day-to-day living expenses. So far that has worked out really well and, I think, gave D incentive to work hard and seriously kickstart her career even before graduation (which has no doubt also involved some luck).
I’d also add that the most expensive college choice can be the one year misfire, where kids end up switching schools and need 5 years to complete their degree. It’s surprising how many people we know have ultimately paid for a fifth year, including friends at state schools who were unable to schedule the classes they needed.
Last, I am a huge believer in financial honesty. If we couldn’t have afforded a school without impacting our retirement funds (which ultimately comes back to bite your kids) we absolutely would have explained that and helped both kids make other choices. Apply your own oxygen mask before assisting others and all that.
First, yes, every school on my kids’ lists appealed to them, but some more than others. Some fit better than others too. None would have been a bad choice for them. Yes, my MT daughter attended NYU/Tisch. It did not necessarily cost more than her other choices, however. She got a substantial four year scholarship. We let our kids pick where they wanted to attend. NYU/Tisch was a first choice for this kid and honestly, I do think it was the best fit for what she was seeking in a college. The other schools also were very well regarded BFA in MT programs! So, it wasn’t like NYU was “better!” It just fit her better. It wasn’t the reputation. I’m not sure if it is worth listing all the ways it fit my kid. I don’t think NYU is better than her other options or the best school or even right for everyone. But it was quite perfect for my kid. That is why she chose it. As I wrote earlier, D1 preferred her acceptances at Tufts and Smith over her acceptance at an Ivy, U of Pennsylvania. They fit her better. She chose Berkeley over Stanford (which gave her a substantial scholarship) because she preferred their program in terms of fit. When she chose MIT for grad school, at the time, it offered less money (though they increased the scholarship the second year) than other top tier acceptances she had in hand such as Columbia and Cornell. It fit more of what she was seeking. So, my kids truly picked by fit. However they applied to highly selective schools because honestly, these types of schools were a better fit in terms of the level of challenge and student body, for starters.
By the way, I don’t think the fact that my D has NYU/Tisch on the resume gets her into any auditions. The talent is what matters in that regard. I will say that my D, who is now 7 years out of her BFA program, continues to work with many of her peers from college in various capacities. “Connections” isn’t just about ones with those in the field, but with your classmates. In her case, a huge number of her peers from college and are doing very well in the field and they work with one another.
I will reiterate that I still believe that success is based on who you are way more than which school you have attended. I think my kids could have reached their same career goals at less renown colleges. However, we were not paying for what it could lead to but rather four years (plus grad school) for the experiences while in college and we cared that each kid found the school that fit them very well. And they did.
Boy @theaterwork - you are just not going to let the name thing go… Do I enjoy saying “my kid goes to NYU”? Well, I generally brace myself for the “but it’s so expensive” response - so I wouldn’t say I look forward to it - I feel like I have to prepare for justification. And then it get’s followed up with “she studies theater” and we all know how that goes… (But she’s so smart, aren’t you worried about her future yada Yada yada) so yeah. But Am I proud of the fact that we are giving this opportunity to our kid? You bet your sweet bippy.
Unless you can afford to pay out of pocket for any school, we all struggle with what the right thing is to do when it comes to the exorbitant price of college whether it’s for a BFA MT degree or any other degree. I know people who have had their kids go to community college for 2 years and transfer into a 4 year private college because their degree will be from the private college with the name, but the cost will be substantially less. I know people who have gone to state schools because the cost is substantially less. I know people that have gone to expensive private schools but paid less than what they would have paid at a state school because of academic/merit scholarships, talent scholarships, financial aid. And I know people who have gone to expensive private schools and paid virtually all of it through loans, etc. So to question $70k at NYU or $65k at CMU isn’t necessarily a fair judgement as the reality is that we all know the sticker price, but none of us actually know what someone actually paid, Everyone’s perspective on what’s “right” differs. My older S is a junior engineering major who had the high rank, grades and test scores to attend the best schools all of which are expensive and offer no academic/merit money since everyone is equally smart. The government thinks we can afford way more towards his education than we can actually afford so we get little need based aid (although next year we will get a lot more for the one year they are both in school). How do they think we can pay 1/2 of our take home pay? I definitely debated the value of an engineering degree from one school vs another school - does the name matter, will the name get you a job? I strongly suggested that he attend a school that maybe wasn’t as elite and would essentially give him a full tuition academic scholarship or a school that could give him athletic money (he’s a varsity sport athlete as well). In the end, he did not want to “settle” and chose the school he felt was right for him. Of course it was a Division III school that doesn’t give athletic scholarships or academic/merit awards because of the high quality of students they admit. Are we paying “too much” for his college - honestly I think yes, but he is flourishing academically and on the athletic field and is happy. The school ended up being a perfect fit for him. When it comes to my younger S and his BFA MT, yes I worry that paying the kind of money we’re paying for the engineer doesn’t make as much sense, because the engineer will theoretically be more employable with a stable income that will allow him to pay back his loans. But, in the end, we can’t offer him a different deal than his brother. The most important thing to us is that he gets the education and training he needs/wants. I do think that he can get that without attending an elite private school, but it is equally important that he attend a school that is the best fit for him where he will be happy and successful. And while I may think he can do that at a cheaper school, ultimately he has to go with what feels right for him (not what feels right for me). As others have said there’s no right or wrong answer, it’s ultimately a personal family decision on what’s best for your family.
P.S. But, believe me if he had made it past the Priority Hold at Texas State to an offer or wait list (which he loved), I think we’d definitely be pushing that (even though we’re out of state and would have additional travel expenses) - an elite state school with a small price tag - they do exist!
Even if one attends a “brand name” school, it doesn’t mean they care about prestige or name drop. Frankly, when my D attended Brown, an Ivy, I noticed when she was back home on visits and would run into people in town who asked her where she went to college, she would respond “in Rhode Island.” I think knowing the kind of reaction one can get sometimes if they mention an elite school, it is easier to avoid it. I went to grad school at Harvard and I feel very uncomfortable at times when people react to that. It is easier to not admit it.
I also recall when D1 was in college at Brown and was on a sports team (not a recruited athlete), and we attended many of her events, I recall noticing all these kids wearing their college sweatshirts and my D was wearing her high school sweatshirt. I asked her about it and she said she was damn proud to wear the sweatshirt of her no name public high school (most of her teammates had attended private prep schools), and not her Brown University one. So, again, prestige is not the motivation.
