How do you get your child to overlook "naturally" smart classmates?

Parents Forum
1

Talking with my son last night, he’s really frustrated in honors courses because the kids who “barely study” are acing everything. So on one hand he feels dumb and on the other it seems a really unfair draw. Anyone have an approach to illustrate effort can overcome natural gifts?

Reminds me of this I read in the NYT: There’s evidence that Americans believe that A’s go to smart kids, while Asians are more likely to think that they go to hard workers. The truth is probably somewhere in between, but the result is that Asian-American kids are allowed no excuse for getting B’s — or even an A-. The joke is that an A- is an “Asian F.”

2

Does he play a sport? Or does he play a band or orchestra instrument? If he does, perhaps he has seen examples of situations where some people have more natural talent than others, as well as examples of people developing their talent through practice and hard work.

Also, some kids who say they barely study are lying. Not all of them, but some. In some circles, it’s unfashionable to admit that you care enough about school to study.

3

On a side note, I can attest to the quote :stuck_out_tongue: Not getting a perfect 4.0 caused a lot of tension at home. If I was getting a B, they wanted a B+. If I was getting a B+, they wanted an A-. If I was getting an A-, they wanted an A. If I was getting an A, they wanted an A+. People joke about it but at least in my case, it’s true :c

4

My son is Asian, and personally I HATE that particular quote.

5

Let him know that his need to study will come in handy when he starts college; he has study skills that those “naturals” have yet to learn. I was a “natural” and spent my first semester of college learning how to study! It wasn’t pretty, lol.

6

This is a very common problem. It stems from a culture in certain high schools to not only succeed, but to succeed without any apparent effort. This carries onto college (see: [this NYTimes article](Suicide on Campus and the Pressure of Perfection - The New York Times), “floating duck syndrome” at Stanford). You have to realize that a lot of people work much harder than they seem to. People see everyone else apparently not working so they don’t want to seem like they’re working because then they look bad. It keeps snowballing until there’s a whole cadre of students who don’t seem to try at school at all, but go home and work for hours, thinking they’re the only one.

7

It can be frustrating, but it seems like a pretty common issue. I know my D has had to deal with it as well. Her way to ‘deal’ with it was to resign herself to the fact that some people are actually smarter than her. She has a very high GPA, but works her booty off. There’s a couple girls who don’t seem to put in nearly the amount of time studying as she does, yet always eek out the better grade on tests. She has gotten to be friends with them, and while not ‘best’ friends, she can go to them with questions when she has them.

I would really try not to draw too much attention to it, and make sure your son worries about his own work. There’s room for lots of different types of people at the top of a class.

8

DS is pretty “natural” at math in HS, which bugged some classmates. Otoh, it took the intervention of his advisor to keep an art teacher from flunking him, because she had never encountered anyone so woefully unable to work with clay that she assumed he was being defiant and oppositional. He gets it from me; lots of appreciation of art, but neither of us can draw a stick figure.

9

My kid who sailed along with no effort in most areas struggled mightily in French. Pretty much everyone has some academic weakness. But the bottom line is, no matter where your kid goes there will probably be some people who are smarter and have talents he doesn’t. He needs to stop comparing himself to others, and focus on his own academic and career goals.

10

I don’t try to make my kids feel better about their classmates being naturally smarter. My step-daughters were a mix of smart and hard workers. They could get a B without much effort, but if they wanted an A, they had to work for it. My son and my daughter are those naturally smart kids. My son still puts in effort, but my daughter doesn’t really have to, which I always get on her case about because I don’t want her to go to college having a poor work ethic.

My other daughter, an 8th grader this year, is smart. But she had to work really hard in her math and science classes because she struggles with them. She is also very active in other ECs. She has come home to me numerous time frustrated that her close friend received a similar grade on the same test when she didn’t even study. I give to her very simply.

“Emily, (your friend) is better at math than you are. But that doesn’t mean you’re dumb. The fact that you have to study shows that you are willing to put in the work and that you’re a good student. It doesn’t mean that (your friend) isn’t a good study, but you are more equipped when it comes to studying. (Your friend) is probably always going to get good grades in math without putting half as much effort ad you do, but that’s how life works. Sometimes things come to you, and sometimes they don’t. You’re a hard worker and you have great grades and so long as you know that, you’ll do fine. You can’t change other people, you can only work on yourself.”

It was a boring Mom lecture but it helped.

11

Some kids have to work hard to make it through elementary school. Others don’t hit road bumps until college.

I have yet to hear of anyone winning a Nobel Prize on talent alone.

12

Math skills are like a sport, they take time to master, but you can get there even without superstar skills (there are some people who have math issues … but for a child who can say understand algebra, it is best to just do lots of problems).

Many of the top math students have been doing extra problem sets for years, so they are basically like the kid who has been shooting hoops on the driveway for years. They are right now better than you, but if you practice, you can get to JV level and even beyond.

Memorization is a skill. Reading is a skill. Writing is a skill. All need practice and improve with time.

It may still be good to try to figure out exactly what your child is struggling with, so you can make sure they have no underlying issues (reading difficulties through learning disabilities) and can work on improving the skills that they are weak in. And there are for example, speed reading classes. Or math tutors to help fill in gaps in understanding or just work through enough say algebra problems that they can do the manipulations correctly. Reading is sort of done alone … but say reading a book and writing a good critical essay, that takes practice. Effort on one assignment can yield improvements in many assignments in the future.

Study habits can also range from stellar (kid sits down with total 100% focus, reads material, reads the assignment carefully and completely, kid pumps out the homework set, kid goes outside to shoot hoops) to dreadful (kid sits down and is distracted for 50 minutes, does not read instructions, 4 hours later is still sitting there … etc). If appropriate, maybe you can watch their habits and see if you can improve them, sometimes even a better desk area can help or a better incentive (finish that up, let me read it to make sure it is A work, then we can go to a movie or whatever).

Life is filled with lots of things that you can get better at if you choose to try: ice skating, skiing, tennis, crossword puzzles, video games … but really there is no shortcut for just putting in the effort.

There are some really brilliant people out there, and there are some people who are born to be theoretical physicists or mathematicians for whom everything they learn from age 5 clicks perfectly into place. But honestly, most of the world is just people who focus and work hard … preferably on something they have some skills and aptitude for and … more importantly … something they really love. High school is a good time to find that love … and make sure you are competent in all the other necessary life skills.

While it is nice to think that kids should be self motivating, some of the tiger parenting is just making your kids do a lot of work … and for some people, this really does get them somewhere.

13

Some kids are naturally gifted when it comes the skills and abilities needed to succeed academically - the rest of us have to work at it. Some people have great people skills (and often end up running everything…) - the rest of us have to work at it. Others are athletic or creative or artistic in ways you’d never anticipate based on their academic performance - the rest of us… And some people’s sheer decency, kindness, instinctive generosity makes you rethink your own behavior…In short, there are so many ways to be ‘smart’ or ‘outstanding.’

In this society, you need a baseline of academic competence to succeed in life, but there are many ways to be successful. Point your son at a few people you know whom you admire and respect who might not have been academic superstars to whom it all came easily. Many of them work very hard - even when they are gifted at what they do. Those are the role models that he can emulate.

14

OP- do you model the kinds of skills you want your son to learn? Do you come home from work and share stories of how you have colleagues much more capable than you? And you have to work twice as hard as they do to keep up?

I think most parents protect their kids from reality far too much. Kids admire their parents and think they are superstars until age 10 or so. And then they think they are morons. But most parents don’t allow their kids to see how much hard work it takes- on a daily basis- to do X. So the kids believe that they are dumb if things don’t come naturally to them.

I watched the Kennedy Center Honors program on TV last night. It was stunning and humbling how hard the award winners have worked during their careers. You didn’t see Seiji Ozawa or Carole King and think “oh, cute photo at the beach” or “that looks like a fun party”. You saw them working- toiling- practicing their craft for decades. And now, still working and practicing and learning and toiling.

A kid who breezes through honors math in HS doesn’t get a free pass for life. Help your son see/meet/understand how much hard work is involved at excelling even when it’s something you are good at.

15

Why should you try to get your child to overlook another’s talent? If your child wants to shjne without having to work hard, take lower level classes where he’ll be the smartest and get easy A’s. Everyone likes to be the star sometimes. Some kids do make the choice to play on a lower level team or be in the lower level orchestra in order to be the star.

My kids both had hard beginnings to life and scool is harder for them. One works hard and always takes the harder courses because she doesn’t want to be left behind, wold rat her get a B iN honors than an A in a lowe level class. The other couldn’t care less if she gets an A or a C so just takes whatever courses at whatever level she wants.

16

People have different talents/abilities. I was always a strong student - math, languages and reading came easily to me, but PE was a struggle. I have no athletic talent at all. In an odd way it was a gift as knowing what it was like to struggle with something others found easy made me more compassionate.

17

And another thing…please discourage your child from comparing himself to others. Encourage him to work to do the best he can.

18

Everything FallGirl said.

When my son was a little, little guy he had a good friend who broke into tears one day because my son was simply doing better in subjects that his friend worked so hard at, and was given second chances to improve upon, but still did not do very well at.

The friend sobbed and said, “You don’t even have to try and you’re great at this!”

My son walked over and put his arm around the friend’s shoulders and with their little heads side by side, he said, “You know, I just can’t throw a baseball. And you are excellent at throwing baseballs. I think it’s okay that you have things that you are good at, and I have things that I am good at, and we don’t need to be the same.”

Those little boys were in balance, and loved each other for all their differences.

19

Just what I was going to post! I was first in my class academically, but when all 220 of us were required to run a mile in PE, I came in DEAD LAST! And now I run half marathons, at a snail’s pace. :slight_smile:

20

There is no such thing as a smart kid who makes As without studying, unless the school doesn’t require anything other than exams. Both of my kids are naturals at academics, but they worked their tails off. It was easy to get As on test by skimming the material the night before, but in order to get an A in the class, they had to do their homework and do it well. So tell your son the truth–that people who make As work for them, including the kids he thinks are acing their honors classes “without studying.”