How do you handle family members who mismanage their finances and ask for handouts??

<p>Help!! I suspect many of us have these relatives… they routinely live beyond their means… constantly justify their spending habits, but convince themselves they are managing their funds adequately. They seem to feel that other family members should subsidize their lifestyle. They have had a long history of unnecessary purchases and poor saving habits. Add to it the embellished medical calamities that lead to constant (and on several occasions unnecessary) treatments, procedures, medications, surgeries, you name it (even when an illnes is “real” it is catastrophized. Never do they simply have a cold-- it is always an upper respiratory infection, bronchitis or pneumonia-- usually self-diagnosed). So, from their perspective they have endured extreme hardships. From the perspective of everyone else, they have been unreasonable in their personal, medical and financial lives. These relatives have constantly turned to parents and siblings… but now parents are deceased. One sibling has put their foot down. No more help. No more “loans” (aka handouts-- as loans are never repaid). This sibling has said “NO MORE!” and told us they will say no to any request for $$$ if they are asked.</p>

<p>Update… the wife in this couple hasn’t worked in years due to the reported medical disasters that always surface. Now, the husband has been laid off (after returning from some unknown and clandestine short term “disability”). They are paying for their COBRA out of pocket (they will never qualify for personal insurance due to their history) and are living off the money left from inheritance afer the parents death. This will last for a little while, but not for a long time. Since the other sibling has cut off the tap, it is just a matter of time before our phone will be ringing. We are already hearing the cries of how expensive it is to live without an income (duh). The husband is supposedly looking for a job and trying to get some contract work, but this is certainly a tough time for that for anyone.</p>

<p>I am the firmer one in our house, and have no problem declining the opportunity to enable the 20+ year fiscal mismanagement behavior that we have witnessed (and it isn’t my family member who has done this). However, my H is a soft touch. I fear, no, I know, that this relative will prey upon his kindness. For years we have discussed the day that this would happen (it was all very predictable). I have always said I would work hard to raise and educate my family, but that I wasnt prepared to do it for their family. I knew this day would come… and now it is rapidly approaching. I feel bad that I want to stand my ground and not become the family member that constantly bails them out of their financial messes (the parents did that until the day they died) but I don’t want to get into a struggle with my H. He has seen this behavior in his sibling, and from an intellectual standpoint he understands that he shouldnt hand them any money… but I know him-- he his a kind-hearted soul.</p>

<p>I would prefer not to get into specifics here about their hypochondriacal behavior. They are convinced their medical issues are real, and they go doctor shopping until they find one who agrees with them. Sadly, the only doctors they DON’T listen to are the Psychiatrists. Even without the medical stuff, they have never, ever lived within their means. The parents chose to continue to constantly bail them out, but I am not interested in taking that on. We frequently paid for things for them-- always pay for meals or hotels and such when we are with them, and pay way more than our share of things, or just never expected them to contribute to things that we and the other sibling paid for. They have taken advantage of our generosity on so many occasions it makes me mad just to think about it, and I’d prefer not to get into examples.</p>

<p>So, how do I support my H but help him JUST SAY NO when the pitiful cries come? He knows how I feel, but he has a harder time saying no. </p>

<p>For other relatives who have been independent and self sufficient, but who may have fallen on hard times, we have been happy to help in an emergency if necessary and if we can. This situation is different. It is a chronic problem that they deny and have no willingness to address. They dont see their behavior as a problem, and when suggestions to contact consumer credit counselors are made they get offended.</p>

<p>Any suggestions as to how to be prepared, and how to keep the peace???</p>

<p>^^^ Oooh, sorry the above post was so long! Hope other posters can wade through it and offer help. Let me add that we are by no means moneybags-- we have just been careful with our money and our savings. I often feel like the pig in the 3 little pigs who built their house out of brick…</p>

<p>jym, if they don’t learn now, when will they learn? Your H has an opportunity to do right by them, and that means helping them grow up and learn what most people learn far earlier in life: how to live within their means. </p>

<p>It’s a tough love approach. </p>

<p>Probably hard for him, though, so… find something he CAN offer them when they come crying: a session with a financial planner, for example.</p>

<p>Thanks, owlice.
I totally agree-- but as I like to say, the first step to fixing a problem is recognizing that there is one. And I don’t think that they recognize the problem. There is always a story, (and to his sibling’s credit the sibling is a master at mooching off of other people. I’d just like it not to be us!!)</p>

<p>Last time the sib asked for $$, my H suggested Consumer Credit Counseling. Thats when the sib. got offended and went to the then still alive parent, and asked my H not to tell the parent that he’d asked for a loan (the siblings all know-- and the one who cared for the elderly parent when he was alive did try to get him to see what was going on).</p>

<p>But I like your suggestion of seeing what DH can offer them OTHER than money. If the financial counseling offer is rejected again, got any other ideas??</p>

<p>Maybe you should explain to them how you understand the issues they’ve had and would really like to help them find a permanent solution to their financial issues - then… hand them one of Suze Orman’s books and tell them it’s time to come to terms with reality (maybe stated in a softer way).</p>

<p>^^^^ Ooh, thanks UCSD<em>UCLA</em>DAD
You think the books would be a good holiday gift? ;)</p>

<p>jym, consumer credit counseling is a great idea, AND it has the added bonus of making the sib go away!!! What’s not to like?!!! :D</p>

<p>Though the sib got offended last time DH brought up consumer credit counseling, he had a bigger sucker to turn to when DH said no. But that sucker is no longer around. If the CCCS recommendation doesnt fly, I need some additional backup suggestions (these are great, by the way-- thanks!!) I love the positive spin approach. It is hard to view it that way when the whole situation wants to make one scream, clutch their wallet and run! I haven’t been able to think “positively” about this situation in a long time</p>

<p>jym:</p>

<p>It seems that this is a good time to advise them to go to credit counseling. Since their parents are deceased and one sibling has declined, it should be easier for you and your H to stand firm and demand that they go to credit counseling before even asking for hand-outs from you.
You and your H should also discuss your own finances and your financial obligations (your retirement, your children’s education and your desire to help your children down the road). For example, why should you bail out your relatives at the expense of your own children? If and only if there is some slack should you consider helping out your relatives. And only in a true emergency. Another thing: Since you are both contributing to your own family’s finances, you both have veto power over how they are spent. Your relatives should be clear that decisions are not for your H to make alone.
Cross-posted with you!</p>

<p>Thanks for your thoughts, marite. </p>

<p>The toughest part of all this is that we have had these conversations before-- and they are always difficult, because DH knows I feel any financial handout to this sib is merely enabling their bad financial decisions, and not requiring them to take ownership of their situation. That said, when they run low on money, there is still some in stocks that their dad left ( which has lost a lot of value). The sib will then ask my H what stock to sell, and if my H doesnthelp advise him he’ll be seen as a bad guy, and if he does make any suggestion and the stock market changes, my H will undoubetly be blamed for making a bad choice- and then the guilt trip will ensue. So I want my H to stay OUT of this whole mess. Of course, if they use a stock broker, that will cost them $$ that they dont think they have. None the less, I will continue to encourage that they do so-- they can probably use one through USAA that will be relatively cost effective.</p>

<p>jym626,
I think there needs to be a merger of some of these threads! Remember Worriedmom845’s recent thread about her brother-in-law needing to be bailed out of some “hot water?” DH and I have also been “hit up” for funds from both sides of our family in the past. We are the ones who have lived well below our means for 30 years while we watched our siblings buy the new cars and take the vacations. I was once called on the phone by a sibling who began the conversation with the words, “Hello, moneybags!” :eek: We have made it clear to everyone in recent years that we have plenty of our own expenses with our “high maintenance” children and the desire to retire before we are 75. I think you have to start using your own family’s projected expenses as your “excuse,” otherwise you are heading down the path as enabler’s of this behavior. You cannot support another family for the rest of your life, and it sounds like this is what would happen. Polite, sympathetic, but firm. :)</p>

<p>Would you be amenable to a compromise? Offer to pay for a one-time financial planning consultation. This would let your H out of the problems associated with advising on what stocks to buy or sell, besides having a neutral party lay out the financial realities and suggesting an overall plan of action to your relatives. But make it clear that this is all you are willing/can afford to help out with.
I’m a softie, so I tend to hide behind my H. :)</p>

<p>momof3-
Hello moneybags!! I love it!! LOL. I must have missed worriedmom’s thread. I am going to go look for it. Do you remember where it was and when?</p>

<p>I have dreaded this time for all the years we’ve been married. I knew the day would come. I predicted that once the remaining parent passed away it would take a year and a half for the sib to run through his portion of the inheritance, but that was (a) when the stock market was strong and (b) when he had a job. Neither of those are currently true. The one thing this sib did do b/c he needed the $$ was to sell the Lehman Bros stock his fa left. We just watched our portion of that stock drop to nothing when Lehman Bros went under :frowning: And yes, we have our own expenses to deal with, not to mention dealing with my dad and his issues, as he could outlive his money. However, if we help my dad, will I be expected to “help” the sib in return?</p>

<p>Marite-
I like your compromise. I think I’ll save that idea for when his sib asks for the first bail out (I feel like the congress and the auto industry–). I am willing to pay a fixed dollar amount for a one time consultation with a financial advisor. Thats a great idea. I can only hope the sib will listen to him/her.</p>

<p>Ummm, someone I know was recommended to read “Codependent No More”. She found it very helpful. It gave her the strength/strategies to deal with an adult drug addicted daughter. It gave her the strength to throw the said d out of the house (homeless), let her car be repossessed. Maybe your husband will find it helpful too ? Guilt is such a powerful emotion. </p>

<p>Paying for financial counseling is a good idea too.</p>

<p>jym626, Here’s that recent thread I referenced-some interesting ideas and commentary
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/605140-lending-family-member-advice.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/605140-lending-family-member-advice.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>LOL, munchkin-- I have that book on my shelf in my office! Whenever I try to bring something like that home, the family members accuse me of using my psychobabble on them (well… they are right :o )</p>

<p>*** edit*** thanks momof3-- I am off to read that thread</p>

<p>How about saying you are working on your own issues and your therapist advised you to say no…hmmmm…not sure if it work for you, but I tell people to blame me if they want…</p>

<p>From the Washington Post’s Color of Money column today:</p>

<p>“Isn’t It Their Turn to Pick Up the Check?” by Jeanne Fleming and Leonard Schwarz (Free Press). A less-well-off friend may think you should pick up the tab more because you earn more. A sibling is always borrowing money from your parents, who complain to you. A relative is angry because you won’t co-sign a loan. What’s the right way to respond to these situations? This book will help you navigate such money challenges.</p>

<p>^^^ I was just thinking that, shrinkrap!! I’ll blame you! :smiley: In all honesty, it does sometimes becomme a bit of a professional hazard when I try to address things like “somatoform disorder” or “hypochondriasis” (not so bluntly-- but I try to explain more delicately to my H) and “enabling” behaviors. Hard to deal with when I know what is so unhealthy and have to deal with the “wearing your professional hat” issue…</p>

<p>Got the link for that article, novelisto??? Sounds perfect!!</p>