How do you talk to a friend who is in denial about her son probably being on the autism spectrum?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Checking in briefly and will try to answer a few questions. </p>

<p>I truly appreciate your feedback. This is a woman who is one of my three closest friends. Our families camp together, spend NYE and thanksgiving together and until the school schedule changed lunched together every friday etc…or as she says we are “sisters.” She surely doesn’t “owe” me and various and sundry neighbors details but it’s the type of thing I would know…like most close friends we know lots of embarrassing and personal details about most of the members of each others families. </p>

<p>Her friendship is crucial to me. (which mitigates both ways to me). Of course I know her husband well too. I wouldn’t presume to counsel her on her marriage more than any of us do (mostly contained after these years to an eyeroll or a knowing nod to “you know Bill.”) </p>

<p>I think you must be right that my friend knows, deep down. I know she can see the other kids and what they are doing and how they act. </p>

<p>The boy has a younger sister who used to idolize him in a typical big brother way but seems recently to have sort of started to write him off. Like he isn’t much of a big brother any more…just like a body in the house, not important and not engaged. </p>

<p>Someone asked if I am jumping to conclusions on a dx. I’m not a medical professional but what I see/know is I’ve been exposed to dozens of kids and he stands out. Obviously I would never point this out to my friend, point by point. It would be unnecessary and cruel. But as someone here asked… </p>

<p>The boy rarely makes eye contact with anyone–I specifically remember the last time this happened with me at the end of the summer when his mother made him leave his game and show off his new school haircut. There was a flicker of eye contact and a beautiful smile when I told him how handsome he was. It was beautiful and startling. He will sometimes accept a hug from his mom but rarely seems to initiate it. Yet he is very open with showing his own emotions. This is hard to explain and I think could be typical 12 yo boy. But, </p>

<p>He cannot “blend.” The other kids who know him well have over the past two years began to say that he is hard to play with/hang with/he’s odd. He only wants to do a couple of things, cannot integrate into a group, does not take social cues. He doesn’t seem to comprehend when others are ready to change the subject off those two special interests and he seems confused when there is slight or non-verbal disagreement/discontentment with them. People literally have to walk away in order to disengage. His speech seems almost pressured and he dives right into the meat and details of Minecraft with no “hey, what’s up” or any introductory social interaction but rather as if he is just letting you in to the running commentary inside his head. </p>

<p>Even when all 8 kids are in the group (like in my house for a holiday), this boy is either literally doing his own thing playing with my legos alone or in the same room with everyone but as if he is playing in a different “world” or on a different “track” than they are. When he does rarely engage he tries to use silly/young humor and laughs so long and so loud that it goes to the point of everyone being uncomfortable. These are good kids, they aren’t being cruddy to him. Kids at school maybe but at least most of the older kids in our group want him to be well/do well. </p>

<p>He perceives each friend from when they were little as if the relationship for him is exactly the same as it was when they were 6 and is confused by the fact when others don’t seem to feel the same way (eg don’t want to come to his birthday or have a sleepover or have new friends or hobbies or do the same things/activities they used to). </p>

<p>He does well in school in math and has banged out some great science projects but language arts and arts are complete mysteries to him and he is at risk of being left behind.</p>

<p>He is aware he isn’t fitting in at school and can’t understand the exact dynamic of it. He cries about it. He asks his mom to teach him how to play basketball so that he can fit in better because he thinks that is the answer.</p>

<p>He is more likely than the average kid to engage in extraneous humming, etc. </p>

<p>He’s always been incredibly detail oriented. Has an amazing depth of knowledge on the few subjects that interest him. He is tireless when it comes to those subject (which is why I hope he can find his academic niche! This is a kid who could discover something.). Subjects he isn’t interested in almost don’t seem to exist. I’ve never seen him able to feign interest in or be polite if for example if someone else is talking about a thing they are doing/sport/project that he isn’t interested in. </p>

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<p>Maybe you start to volunteer for a support group or service for little kids with autism, and once you get involved, you ask her to help occasionally. Maybe she’s gain some insight, if needed. Just an idea. </p>

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<p>“She doesn’t seem to want to talk about it. She alludes to the fact that even if she could get there (to a place of considering something is “wrong” with her son) that she’d then have to fight her husband over it.”</p>

<p>Warning sirens.</p>

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<p>@TempeMom: Have you considered the possibility that the boy is “different” from his playmates in sexual orientation? 12 is a pretty good age for this kind of thing to estrange a kid from others. </p>

<p>I’m suggesting this b/c there are alternatives to consider. And suppose my wild speculation were true, what would you have the mother do? Confront her kid about possibly being gay?</p>

<p>You really should think this through before plowing ahead.</p>

<p>IMO you appear to be selecting information to fit a predetermined syndrome. Earlier you pointed out that he’s not gifted, now you say he does pretty well in math and has some serious interests. But your construction of this appears to me to be trying to fit the kid into an Asperger stereotype. </p>

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<p>While I have no advice about approaching another parent about this, I DO have to wholeheartedly agree that the armchair diagnosis may not be the best idea. Even if you have spent significant amounts of time around children on the autism spectrum, that doesn’t mean that this particular child has autism. And unless you are specifically trained in the diagnosis of autism and other developmental disorders, it can be very easy to fall prey to confirmation bias - paying specific attention to the symptoms that seem to indicate the disorder you think he has while unconsciously ignoring or dismissing symptoms that point to another disorder, or to no disorder at all. In addition, there are other developmental disorders that appear similar to autism.</p>

<p>It appears that you’ve already talked to the other parent about getting him tested and had a discussion about this. Since that has happened already, and these poor parents seem to be trying a variety of things in order to help their child, it appears that they are well aware of their child’s idiosyncracies and the idea that their child might have a developmental disorder has probably surfaced more than once. Perhaps they are in denial, but insisting that they get their child tested is probably not going to dig them out of that, and actually might make them resist even more (especially the kid’s father). It may be more productive for everyone involved if you are just as sympathetic and supportive as you can be without giving any prescriptive recommendations.</p>

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<p>Oh good lord, mackinaw, why so defensive? To the non-trained professional, it DOES sound like a young Sheldon. I don’t really know whether OP should or shouldn’t talk to her friend about her observations, but why hang her for making them? We all do know the difference between someone who is a content introvert and someone who is on the spectrum. </p>

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<p>Friends like you describe (sisters) speak the truth in love. “I am concerned that Michael’s difficulties are causing you pain. You know I love him like my own, so if you ever need someone to help you help him, I am here.” Repeating such sentiments when appropriate–like when you both observe an odd social interaction, or meltdown, or whatever–May just be the ticket. It might be awkward, but if her husband has his head in the sand over this, your friend must feel so alone. Good luck.</p>

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<p>Shellz, I love that. ^^^^^^ To me it strikes the important issues of really caring about your friend AND her S and how much both are suffering, offering support. More than anything, I’m sure your friend must feel so sad and would really appreciate your continued support. </p>

<p>I agree that treading carefully is important. I know of one marriage that broke up because the S had a learning disability that was apparent to everyone but the dad, who REFUSED to allow S to be even evaluated. The S got so frustrated with school and his problems reading that he enlisted in the military without finishing HS. I believe that so far the military was working out for him, but don’t think he ever got any diagnosis or help for his reading problems, which seemed so sad to all of us who cared about the young man and his family.</p>

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<p>I have a very close friend who I have for many years felt was not making the right decision with regards to a medical treatment for her child (for a physical condition.). For a very long time I wanted to convince her to do something different, but then eventually I gave up even thinking about it. I just made peace with the decision she and her husband were making, or in this case, not making, I guess I realized it wasn’t about me and what I thought was best. And that I would not be able to convince them. Everything is fine. We are still close friends and the son is alright.</p>

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<p>I am sorry about your situation and your friend’s son. You’ve already seen her approach to shut down when you begin to talk about it. By age 12, surely professionals like teachers and doctors have tried as well.
I too err on the side of compassionate concern, but I’ve also tried to say something and have seen a similar response and also anger and denial. I would say my attempts backfired.Yet it feels so dishonest to just sit there and pretend as well. If we play into the denial and pretend nothing is wrong, then we’re part of the illusion. So, while I feel my attempts didn’t work, perhaps they established that I also was not willing to pretend as well. However, that pretty much ended any relationship I could have with the parents.
I think this quality contributes to the isolation. The parents can set up the condition of “we believe all is well” for anyone in their circle. If you don’t agree, you are out, but agreeing also feels crazy.
I think we have to be honest with ourselves, and do what we think is right despite their response. However, we can say it with compassion and a hand to friendship- but they may not accept it. One approach may not be to focus on the son. I think they have heard it. Perhaps the offer of support to the friend might work better. “I know you have had a stressful time finding a school that fits your S well, and I am here for you if you need support” would open the door to talking later. </p>

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<p>The problem is that when the parent’s tendency toward denial mixes with her friends’ tendency to not butt in, the child doesn’t get the help he needs. I would wait until the next time she shares something disturbing, and then go with a variation of shellz’s approach. Play back to her the comments she herself has made and then suggest that for her sake and not just her son’s, she seek some help. Say, “You’ve told me blah, blah, blah about your S, and I’m concerned at how much this is bothering you. Since you’ve been seeing these things for a while, I think it’s time you consult with someone who knows more than you or I do and see if there’s something that will help.” Make sure you keep saying, “you told me,” “you said,” “you’ve noticed,” etc. It will help her accept your words if she doesn’t think you are saying bad things about her beloved son, but rather responding to her own words…</p>

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<p>

Well not always. Honestly, I’d say my older son is both - on the spectrum, but on the normal side of the dividing line - wherever that dividing line might be. </p>

<p>As for saying or not saying, since they are close friends, I like shellz’s approach. Tread carefully, but it seems cruel to not make any attempt.</p>

<p>I’ve been in somewhat this position, but I was not nearly as close to the Mom. She had the other super precocious kid in Sunday school, but her kid was much more out there. She did try all sorts of things - chelation therapy, diets etc. I thought he might have benefited from some more mainstream approaches, but I was not close enough to her to say anything, and she was pretty set in her ways. (I did learn a lot from her as she made me think about every thing we did.) Sadly her son started having seizures in high school and passed away a few years ago. Heartbreaking.</p>

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<p>Instead of getting her to accept the label of Aspergers, can you give her helpful hints about what works with Asperger’s kids without calling it that??</p>

<p>Or is he likes Minecraft, is there a Minecraft club? Maybe there would be some other kids that may be on the spectrum that he could make friends with if making friends is an issue.</p>

<p>Or if he has trouble recognizing emotions in other, you could point to something that shows how to do that.
"I know your son isn’t diagnosed with Aspergers, but he happens to have trouble recognizing feelings similar to those kids. You could check this out for hints <a href=“Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos”>Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos;

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<p>I know from personal experience that friends do not want to hear anything negative about their children, no matter how true it is. Expect to lose the friend if you feel the need to bring this up.</p>

<p>The only way this would work is if SHE brings it up and you gently suggest that, “Oh yeah, I read an article about how really highly intelligent people do X and Y (behaviors) and they are actually have Asperger’s. Have you read anything about that or about the autism spectrum? Really interesting stuff.” </p>

<p>Then shut up. </p>

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<p>I don’t think it is for you to judge - that ultimately is the job of professionals, esp diagnosis. Your friend has to find her own way, let her come to you if she needs to talk. </p>

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<p>I think the problem you are going to run into here is that almost nobody really knows what “asperger’s” or “autism” means unless they have personal experience. They think of a child with mental retardation and get angry. You can’t even suggest ADHD without the parents getting angry, this will make them angry most likely. So they may not hear you and it may turn them off to the suggestion altogether, which might do more harm than good. Tread lightly. </p>

<p>I was diagnosed at around age 20, and my parents were really on board about me getting tested-- I’d sent them lists of symptoms to ask what they thought before I even considered it and they said they thought it was distinctly possible. They were excited for me when I found a way to get tested affordably. They drove me to the appointments and my mom participated in a portion of the testing. The day the diagnosis actually came, they were very quiet. They didn’t talk in the car all the way home. I went back to my dorm and they went back to their home and they didn’t really talk to me for a week. They were upset. It was a rollercoaster of emotions for them. They didn’t want to believe it, they felt guilty for about ten different reasons-- why didn’t they know this before, did something they did cause it, so on. They were on board and they were upset. Imagine not being on board. Even if there was a diagnosis, would they accept it?</p>

<p>However, I would never have gotten my diagnosis had my sister not pointed out to me that I had some similarities to her mildly autistic son. Nobody had ever thought of it before. I was telling her about some of my social problems at school and that was what she came out with. And my diagnosis saved my life. I would be a college drop out with no hope of ever having an adult relationship without my diagnosis. So if you can come up with a way to gently steer her in the direction of getting assessed, that might do amazing things for this boy. There are no medications and many treatments are highly controversial with debatable effectiveness, but just knowing and understanding the way the autistic brain works makes it so much easier to live with and find work arounds. She doesn’t have to accept signing him up for behavioral therapy and make a life out of trying to “cure” him, autism is incurable, if not wanting to “change” him is her hang up she doesn’t have to do that. But if this boy is autistic, he will need help to learn how to be himself comfortably and how to live his life successfully with his quirks. I don’t want to change most of my “quirks” either, but I did need to learn how to live with them well enough to find a job and a spouse to be happy with myself.</p>

<p>I like TranquilMind’s suggestion-- if she brings up his behaviors or difficulties that might be your opening, and you have to phrase it like a positive-- and in a lot of ways, it is a positive. It isn’t all bad. Then back off. Don’t corner her, and expect her to be on the defensive. If you do anything, it is best to just plant the seed and walk away for it to grow on its own if it’s going to.</p>

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<p>I agree that the child’s behavior screams Aspergers. But I doubt that your bringing it up with your friend is going to have any good result. On the other hand, you can avoid supporting her in her belief that he is just fine. E.g. if she complains that teachers are not doing the right thing with her precious snowflake, you could say something like, “What did the school psychologists say?” </p>

<p>Poor kid. He’d be better off with a diagnosis (if he is on the spectrum, which I’d bet money on). He’s at an age where more is being expected from him and he can’t do it. School is undoubtedly a miserable place. He has no idea how to make it better. People are telling him, “If only you would <do something=”" that="" is="" easy="" for="" neurotypicals="" but="" he="" completely="" incapable="" doing="" of="" at="" this="" point=""> everything would work out." He thinks he ought to be able to do these things, and he doesn’t understand why they are so hard for him.</do></p>

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<p>Emaheevul07, thank you so much for patiently sharing your experiences and insight on both of these threads. You are helping all of us more than you will ever know. </p>

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<p>Just because a mother doesn’t discuss her child’s issues with friends doesn’t mean she’s in denial. Some of us find it very annoying when well-meaning laypeople offer suggestions, especially when we’re already working with experts. And even if this mother isn’t, she’s certainly aware that her child isn’t typical. What good could telling her that you notice it too do? You’re better off just assuming in your mind that the child has Asperger’s and being patient with him.</p>

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<p>Just a few things:</p>

<p>1) Please, please, never associate violence with autism, as someone did upthread. Not all those on the spectrum are violent, and so many families are hurting because others assume their child “must” have violent tendencies because they have autism. In fact, this is one ginormous reason many will not seek a “label” or disclose it.</p>

<p>2) Twelve is not too late for a dx. In fact, current research is showing girls, in particular, are dx’d later than boys, usually around age 11 or later. In fact, many on the Aspergian end of the spectrum are not dx’d until adulthood. (ref: @Emaheevul07’s post.)</p>

<p>3) @TempeMom, you sound like an absolutely fantastic friend. As others have said, all we can offer from this side of the keyboard is anecdotal stories and advice. So many Aspie moms lose friends, it’s crazy. </p>

<p>4) IF he is on the spectrum (and we have no way of knowing, but this holds true for most), consider asking him about one of his Special Interests. Sure, this may be less than appealing, but it may open him up to conversation, which is a good thing. It will get the social skills ball rolling. These kids usually know others don’t care for them. They can be some of the most observant people, ever, but their autism has people often thinking the opposite. </p>

<p>@Emaheevul07 thank you so very much for sharing! Your thoughts are invaluable and also encouraging. I also agree that too many NT’s want to rewire Aspies because they are different. An Aspie mind is an incredible thing! :)</p>