<p>Question: When considering a student’s transcript for admission, how does participating in music compare to AP courses? Most students who participate in high school music ensembles have done so since 5/6th grade – a sure sign of commitment. There have been many studies showing the value and benefits of studying music. So my […]</p>
<p>One thing high schools can do is count elite music groups (those that are selective, participate in competitions, etc.) as honors classes. That won’t replace AP Physics, but it can help with some metrics for difficulty of schedule.</p>
<p>I don’t really have an answer to this, but as an interesting note my friend lost his valedictorian spot because Jazz Band and Symphony were actually bringing his GPA down. He definitely deserved it though, he worked way harder than the person who got it.</p>
<p>I am a high school senior at an arts magnet school. All students are required to take two arts classes per year. However, we have always been strong in terms of elite college admissions; within recent years, I personally have known students that have matriculated at Harvard, Brown, Columbia, Penn, Cornell, Stanford, MIT, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, and Georgetown. These students were all strong academically and had schedules filled with AP classes. Certainly, relative to students from other schools, the arts were no detriment for them, even though I don’t believe any of them had progressed past county or state recognition for their talents.</p>
<p>It should be noted, of course, that this is within the context of an arts school. I can’t speak for the admissions consequences of students at a non-arts school taking classes in the arts.</p>
<p>To expand upon DrAhumada’s point, one would assume that being at an arts school would eliminate the ranking discrepancy. It doesn’t. Us music majors have access to AP Music Theory, and visual arts majors have access to AP 2D/AP 3D/AP Photo and AP Art History. (Non-visual majors can take AP Art History - I’m doing it myself - but it’s frowned upon, and I’m not sure why.) Other majors get somewhat shafted.</p>
<p>I think music is just another extracurricular. It certainly does not hurt a student as it has ample benefits and high potential to show commitment, but it is not nearly as important as a rigorous course load.</p>
<p>The problem, Engineerjw, is that at many schools music – particularly performance music, like band or chorus – is not treated as an extracurricular, or at least not exclusively. It’s a class, and it takes up one period that could otherwise be devoted to an academic subject.</p>
<p>So the question is whether taking that class hurts you in terms of college admissions. I don’t know the answer. Should students give up music in favor of more academics, even if they love band/orchestra/chorus? </p>
<p>My daughter took band all four years and it didn’t seem to hurt her. But she was also a full IB diploma candidate, which automatically qualifies as “most rigorous curriculum.” Perhaps things would have been different if she had been in the regular program.</p>
<p>If I had still been taking music when I entered high school, I would have switched to private lessons or county band or something. My school offers band/orchestra/chorus as classes, not extra-curriculars, and unless you plan to do something musically-related, I don’t think it’s worth the credits you would lose.</p>
<p>I have remarked that it doesn’t seem fair that top players in band or orchestra, after 4 or 5 years, still get regular credit for those classes, when top students (those who take AP or post-AP levels) get weighted credit for their classes.</p>
<p>It is certainly possible to do music and have a rigorous schedule. I have done 4 years of Symphony Orchestra and this year added Chamber. My transcript has 19.5 “solids”, with 9 AP classses and Calc 3 taken at the local university. I also have 2 semesters of drawing, which I am sure will help me as an engineer, even if the admissions people at the one Ivy I applied to are not.</p>
<p>I believe many schools, like mine, offer an Honors credit for Band/Chorus/Orchestra. We can actually choose to be in all three and still have it count for only one credit, thereby letting us take other AP classes.
However, if you are performing music at a conservatory level, does this count as world-class?</p>
<p>Well, at my school (an IB school) if you try taking music all 4 years, you can’t do the IB diploma. I was in our school’s audition-only symphony orchestra as a freshman last year, and I had to drop it for PE this year to meet graduation requirements before junior year. Nonetheless, my counselor told me that dropping music for the IB diploma was definitely worth it.</p>
<p>If <em>I</em> were picking, I would highly value an applicant’s musical experience, given that the applicant was committed over a long period of time (as they often are), reached a certain apex of their craft (All-State, or what have you-- not necessarily anything national), and contributed to their organization as a leader.</p>
<p>But then again, <em>I</em> know what those kids do to make it that far. And I know all the benefits of immersion in a good music program – leadership, “followership,” community, teamwork, humility, persistence, service to others, time management, and the list goes on. Like sports – except it takes up a class period.</p>
<p>The problem, I think, is that people who haven’t done it or been exposed to it possibly don’t value it the way those of us who’ve been immersed in it do. And some of those people who don’t comprehend its value are making admissions and scholarship decisions. It’s too bad.</p>
<p>Huh. I think of the people in my school with top 5 weighted GPA’s, 3 are in all-state band. This other girls and I are both in band as well, so hmm…</p>
<p>I’ve been in band since elementary school. I enjoy it very much. Yes, your GPA may take a hit in certain cases. (At my school, however, since I’m in the top band, my band class is Honors, so it gives me an advantage for scholastic and weighted GPA.) Doing music or any arts program from all 4 years of high school obviously shows commitment, but can also provide you with leadership opportunities (i.e. being first chair/principal, president of band council, etc.). Don’t overlook it. That said, if you are dying to take Physics B because you want to be a EE, have at it. If you still want to show commitment to something musical, you can enroll in a private arts school and participate in competitions. A girl at my school who did so got into Stanford last year.</p>
<p>Like many others, I’m not sure what to think. I think not all people have been blessed with the talent for music, so I believe those that have should use it. However, at my school the grades for music classes tend to be almost perfect because of the lack of proper grading. This balances out the lack of “honors” credit.</p>
<p>In our school district, music (and PE and other electives) are graded, but they are not counted in the gpa’s. The gpa’s are used to rank the kids, and AP courses are weighted more than regular courses, which is fair.</p>
<p>That way, a lot of electives do not unfairly raise or lower a student’s class rank.</p>
<p>However, the fact that you can’t take certain courses, because you’re taking music instead, does keep you from loading up with another AP course and raising your gpa a little (assuming you’re getting an A in the class ).</p>
<p>btw, as with the poster on the other page, orchestra and band kids at our school are typically the top kids academically as well. </p>
<p>It’s not an either/or proposition … APs or Music. You CAN do both, and most of the music kids we’ve known do.</p>
<p>But because of the requirement to take music every semester (if you’re a serious music student), music students do end up with a few less AP’s than the most driven non-music students. All of the English, Math, Science, and Social Studies can be AP – because the kids have to take those anyway. But music kids can’t branch out into the other APs because there’s no room in their schedule. (Psych, Stats, Language, European Hist, etc)</p>
<p>And once you’ve taken all the core AP’s, what would you rather have as an admissions officer? MORE AP’s, or dedication and excellence in music? I know which one I’d pick … but I’ve also known admissions staff who don’t feel the same way.</p>
<p>In New York State, it’s required to take Music to graduate with a Regents Diploma (the credible high school diploma as apposed to the less credible Local Diploma).</p>
<p>My son is a Junior and ranked number 1 in his class (so far). He’s been studying music since age 8; it is a huge part of his life and he wouldn’t give it up for anything. He took ensemble freshman and sophomore years. Now , however, he got his school to allow him to substitute an online Master Certificate program from Berklee College of Music in Boston for one of his high school electives (ensemble) . It is independent study on his transcript, graded pass/fail so it doesn’t affect his gpa (actually raises it a bit). He’ll take 8 quarters from Berklee and finish before he graduates HS, and will have 24 college credits to show for it.</p>
<p>That said, ensemble class was not his main thing in music. It was on the bottom of the music priority list to begin with, so it didn’t matter to him to drop it (although it mattered a lot to the ensemble instructor- meaning minus one recommendation). Fortunately, he was still able to schedule all the AP’s offered at his school (they only offer 8 AP 's).</p>
<p>Thought I’d throw this out there for those musicians who may want to protect there gpa, but remain actively involved in music education. I will say it saddens me somewhat to see students having to make decisions to give up what they love to play the college admissions game.</p>
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