And obviously, no one can answer that question.
And is that where privacy concerns get a little tricky?
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I would be prioritizing schools where students don’t need to declare a major until second semester sophomore year, and there is ease of switching majors. The good news is those tend to be some of the more prestigious schools ; )
To answer your initial question, my husband would also say “yes” prestige matters for business because of the connections and alumni network. It is something he looks at when hiring, especially for new grads.
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No, because he knows how those factors a role. He’s asking about those factors. He’s asking about two specific factors: prestige, and major types.
If we were asking for school suggestions, which we very clearly have stated we aren’t, then yes knowing his EC’s would make a difference. Obviously knowing his geographic preferences would also make a difference. But we are not asking for school suggestions.
Not sure how much more help we can give you.
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That’s fine.
If at the time he’s unsure of what he wants, that’s why a college with all sorts of majors makes sense - ie the liberal arts and business. I’d be less concerned with cyber because most schools have CS, if not cyber, and cyber would at least be a block. And there are kids in CS that didn’t major in or even take a CS class. My nephew has a poli sci degree from U of Arizona and works in NYC for one of the big companies in CS. They make you pass a test and he self learned. I think it’s, in part, because that field changes day to day (the technology, etc.).
So Prezbucky above provided a list of some schools and there are other LACs with business. The Richmond, Bucknell, Susquehannas of the world have business schools. The Franklin & Marshall, Dickinson, Willamette and others have “business type” majors - meaning they have business but maybe more generalist than with a defined discipline (like finance or supply chain or accounting).
There will also be small LAC type public colleges from a W&M for a name to neighboring Christopher Newport, with a great rep - and more.
This way, you cover all bases.
This list isn’t based on the others (geography, etc) because that’s not provided but it’s just to let you know a possible path so when the time comes, you can find schools to hit a path, however you define that path at the time.
All these colleges have kids in “business” - but someone in a account manager / sales type role (I work for a car manufacturer and call on a basket of dealers) requires a different education than someone in accounting (although an accountant can surely do my job, so they have more optionality). I can do and have done many jobs - pricing, marketing communications, product management, incentives, distribution/supply chain, events/PR and more - but I’ll never be an accountant !! That would require a different educational path.
It may be in a year he still doesn’t know if he wants a formal education tied to a career or a more general education where the career isn’t known..
That’s why finding a school with business offerings would then make the most sense if that mindset is still there. That buys more time.
Some schools, by the way, W&M is one, have secondary admissions - so you have no choice but to study other things. There, you need to wait until the semester that you’ve earned 39 credits even to apply. The risk, though with secondary admissions, is that you want to study a business discipline, but can’t.
And he might even want to study schools like Babson and Bentley, very well respected, which are business schools at their core, so you’re going to get a business backbone, but have majors - for example at Babson, Environmental Sustainability or Justice, History or Social Policy. Or at Bentley, Analytics, English, History, International Affairs, and more. Both schools but especially Bentley (even though Babson is “higher ranked”) have outstanding placement, but Bentley recognized regularly as one of the top career offices.
So that’s another way to potentially thread the needle if the needle hasn’t stuck to a specific point within a year.
The point being - there’s definitely a way to buy more time, even when choosing and enrolling in a college. He doesn’t need a major at 18 but maybe at 20 he will - so choosing from a basket of schools that keep the options open may be the wisest thing to do in your case.
But kids from unkown State U are going to get business jobs and kids from “presitgious” schools, whatever that means, are going to get jobs. There are documented placement reports to show all this.
Hope that helps.
Ok, I have to chime in here with a fun anecdote related to one of the funds mentioned in the link.
This past year, rising Sr.'s resume was passed along to the fund for internship consideration. Candidate had offer in hand for full, post-grad employment as rising Jr. (high salary + bonus to sign on early) at boutique consulting firm. High-level candidate. Never expected to hear anything from the fund, have a little knowledge of their culture, very aggressive, almost antagonistic.
Four months after submitting CV, heard feedback. Family friend attended a charity benefit with contact at the fund. “Whatever happened with so-and-so?”
“Oh, is that the kid from (__________)? Yeah, nothing to do, not a target school. What are we drinking?”
That link is a solid representation of the landscape, btw. Least how we see it.
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But again, OP said numerous times - want to go into business.
You are talking about .00000000001 of business. Business is everywhere from retail to hospitality to insurance to professional services to customer service to selling/marketing every widget known to man from pens to toothpaste to software (on a selling end) to washing machines, from planning for efficient transportation, to providing and interpreting data and so much more.
Kids who say they can’t find jobs are likely - not expansive enough in their search. They likely set a moat around what they are willing to consider and seek that vs. saying - well, if I one day manage a grocery store or handle insurance claims, etc. But there are a ton of places hiring and paying well.
So the broadness and it’s understandable because at 16, no one should be boxed into a decision but the broadness is why there is no efficient answer - which is ok. It just means they need to do their best to cover all possibilities a little bit longer - like even once they are in school.
Just to stir things up a bit:
When schools like Wharton and Harvard Business School were established, they were seen as overly vocational, and to build legitimacy their founders framed management as a profession, on par with law and medicine. But education in those fields rested on established bodies of knowledge — centuries of case law, natural sciences like biology — that management lacked.
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Thank you for that! It expressed many of the reasons for my unease with the possibility of sending my kid to study business. But even beyond that, the effects of that mindset that is propagated in business schools has had such deleterious consequences for society as a whole, that it is surprising that we remain so neutral towards it. Perhaps if we start unmasking it for what it is, and vilifying its greatest beneficiaries, then we can redirect the direction of this sinking ship.
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Agreed. But to keep the conversation within the narrow confines posed by the OP’s question, there are indeed solid reasons behind her husband’s beliefs. Business education and the liberal arts (and sciences) are difficult enough to juggle at the level of a Wharton or a Harvard University (where famously every graduate school is the master of its own fate), but almost unfathomable at the level of a small college with limited resources; where excellence tends to be a zero-sum equation. It’s no wonder that DH suspects that LACs that try to do both have lower prestige than the NESCACs.
Most people don’t become corporate execs - so I’ll disagree with the article. Most remain “regular” mid level employees.
I see less value for an MBA - the premise of the article - for someone who has studied business undergrad. But for a History or Math or whatever major and you need to learn basics of accounting, finance, marketing and more, a business education provides that.
If this student whose parent started the chat, doesn’t study a business discipline, they might (or might not) later determine - wow, I need some formal education and decide to pursue an MBA. My son, an engineer, might determine he needs that education (or his company might for him).
And it makes sense. I find it hard to believe that in these classes teaching fundamentals that they are teaching - cut employees. Most of these students will never be in that position to make that decision.
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Top mgt might decide how many to cut but the mid level picks who to cut. It’s a real responsibility.
You/we may want to start a new thread with this article… a lot here to discuss and most will be off topic IMO.
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Yes, a reminder that the question at hand is whether prestige matters. The article perhaps puts some flesh on what may be motivating the husband’s concerns, but ultimately the question is whether prestige - by whatever definition is meaningful to you - matters.
Not that I’ve ever seen - it’s always based on rating (and age although they won’t say it).
I’m just saying - to lose the MBA for reasons that they state is silly.
For someone like me, who had a History and Journalism double major, an MBA was essentially the same as a student who studied business in undergrad - I learned about accounting, finance, operations (like flow of product) and more.
So eliminate the MBA and you eliminate a lot of the opportunity for kids/adults who need that base education to get it.
Anyway, the MBA isn’t going anywhere. In fact, it’s been reinvented and expanded.
For the OP’s student, if they study accounting, they are unlikely to need an MBA.
If they study econ or CS or any other major if they ultimately pivot, they’ll be able to get in the business world (which most work in to begin with) - but they might either want or need that formal business education to move further.
MBA students are learning the fundamentals, which may include strategy but the article infers something I find hard to believe to be true.
Yes, but this husband does not seem to have a current or common view of what prestige even means.
The article, on the other hand, makes an MBA “the problem” instead of Greedy People being “the problem” IMO. Might be an interesting discussion.
Why do you say that? The schools he’s encouraging our son to look at, places like Middlebury and Hamilton, have been named multiple times on this thread. Are you saying that those schools aren’t currently or commonly considered prestigious?
I recognize, of course, that there are schools like Wharton or Harvard that are even more prestigious, but for a variety of reasons, I don’t think they’re fits for our kid.
I’ll also note, just because I think it might shed light on why I’m asking here, instead of just asking him, he is not my husband. He is my ex. While I think we do a good job of coparenting, it’s still a more complex dynamic. At some point, we’ll have a conversation and work our our approach, but I’d rather going into that conversation with a solid understanding.
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Depends on the role.
In most cases, unlikely. In these high end niche fields, yes.
Neither, as an example, would be good for accounting - but a UVM or numerous SUNYs - to keep in state, would be.
Here are Hamilton’s career outcomes. They have various fields. They show business under one, finance under another. Even some of the other areas like marketing and sales are “business” - they have everyone from finance to various retail people, like doing returns at TJ Maxx, so similar to most colleges. But this is good info.
Another (not NE) high end LAC is Grinnell. Click see more on the employment tab (at the bottom) and you’ll see job titles, etc. of all graduates.
Basically, what you’re saying is that “business” at least in a rudimentary sense, is the default destination for the overwhelming majority of American college graduates (and there are some statistics to support this) unless they optimize their chances for something else, like a graduate degree, medicine, law, architecture, nursing, etc.