<p>Based on past posts, I get the general feeling that UMICH and UVA are overall considered to be much higher quality state schools compared to UIUC. So I was wondering if it would be considered impressive to get good grades while obtaining more than one degree (dual degree in finance and econ.) and possibly two minors (French and mathematics) at a lesser state school like UIUC as opposed to doing well while getting an economics degree and possibly a minor at either UMICH or UVA. I’d really appreciate any input.</p>
<p>In many ways UI and UM are much better universities than UVa. The main things Uva has going for it are the location, small size and the ivy-reject popularity. UI and UM both contribute much more to the advancement of knowledge.</p>
<p>I would second the previous comment. UMich is one of the top two or three state universities nationally (UC Berkeley is perhaps better, but they are both really really good across many departments and programs). UVa has a much stronger rep in the east than it does nationally. </p>
<p>If you were to look at the ratings of all their programs (now I’m talking mainly about grad and professional schools), UVa would be behind not only UMich and UCB but also UWis, UIUC, UNC, UCLA, and perhaps one or two others. Some time ago, I actually toted those things up, and if I recall correctly, UIUC was close to UNC and UCLA in the number of such programs, while UWis, UMich, and UCB were ahead of UIUC. UVa would have been last among those I’ve mentioned (which doesn’t by any means mean it’s weak!).</p>
<p>barrons,
do you have any evidence to back up your claim? Moreover, your claim that UVA is for ivy-rejects is incorrect. I do not deny that the school is easier for in-staters to gain accetance, but for the out-of-staters to gain acceptance is as hard as any ‘lower’ ivy.
And for many in-staters, the school’s releatively cheap tuition, beautiful campus, great education, etc. make the school their first choice. Why would one pay a tuition more than twice as high at a school that’s not even significantly better?
“UI and UM both contribute much more to the advancement of knowledge.” -> I cannot help but laugh at this. What makes you believe so?</p>
<p>mackinaw,
harri is interested in undergrad, not grad programs. Speaking of the undergrad UVA is definitely not worse than UIUC and Michigan. </p>
<p>Some things to consider:
-UIUC: 57% of incoming freshmen were in top 10% of HS, ACT range: 25-31, avg. SAT 1290
-Michigan: 90% of incoming freshmen in top 10% of HS, SAT range: 1200-1390
-UVA: 84% of incoming freshmen in top 10% of HS, SAT range: 1230-1430, ACT range: 25-31, avg. SAT 1330</p>
<p>As for the reputation, UVA is actually better known throughout the nation. Just read the ‘revealed preverence ranking’ which surveyed top HS students throughout the nation, and you’ll understand. In fact, UVA is the only public in the top 20 according to this ranking.</p>
<p>RP is a popularity contest for high schoolers. Both UM and UI have far more faculty that are members of the top academic societies and have produced their fair share of Nobel prize winners. The next Uva grad or prof to win a Nobel will be the first. Uva is a very good pre-professional school and a solid but not great research school.
Check out the membership numbers yourself</p>
<p><a href=“http://www4.nationalacademies.org/nas/nashome.nsf[/url]”>http://www4.nationalacademies.org/nas/nashome.nsf</a></p>
<p>harri,
I do not believe UVA and Michigan are that much better than UIUC. If better, the difference is negligible.
If you’re a student at UIUC, do not think about transferring. If you’re a HS student, go there. As far as I know, UIUC is a great institution.
If you get high GPAs and everything there, why wouldn’t you be well-off after graduation?</p>
<p>Thanks for the replies. I guess what I’m kind of worried about is if I would be at a disadvantage in terms of grad school admissions or employment. Say for example, my GPA and EC’s at UIUC are pretty much the same as another prospective college student’s who went to either UMICH or UVA. I’m afraid that it would be considered more of an accomplishment to do well at either UMICH or UVA, which would put me at a disadvantage after graduating.</p>
<p>barrons,
the large number of ‘big name’ faculty does not guarantee a great education for its undergrads. A person with a Ph.D., research, and teaching experience in his field is no less able than a ‘big name’ person in effectively teaching his students. For an example: LACs are known to provide a great education for their undergrads, and yet they do not have a number of prize-winning faculties.</p>
<p>Moreover, even if ‘big name’ people exist in a great number at a school, it does not help its undergrads any better. Teaching undergrads all come down to the same level.
This can be seen in textbooks and teaching materials used at different schools; they are all similar according to the level of instruction. So even if there’s a nobel-prize-winning professor, he/she will end up teaching the similar materials just as at any other schools (and the profound knowledge a prize-winner possesses will not be clearly understood by undergrads anyway; with a few exception, all of them are merely being introduced to the field of academia). And the teaching skill of certain materials does not correlate to the number of great prizes one receives.</p>
<p>I personally believe UVA, UIUC, Michigan are all great. If there’s a difference, it is negligible, and it is pretty dumb to argue over which is greater and which is worse.
I think we all have better, more important things to do with our lives.</p>
<p>harri,
I’d agree with Int’l_85. Go to UIUC if you like the school. The difference is minimal as far as employment or grad school are concerned. It’s more important to do well and get high GPA.</p>
<p>Do a double major only if you like both fields and can’t decide which one you like better (or if it is an interdisciplinary area). Don’t do it because you think it will boost your chance. And forgot about minors (you can still take a lot of courses in that area, but you don’t need the extra degree restriction).</p>
<p>The key decision factor is which school ‘fits’ you better…UIUC, UM or UVa. These schools have different characters and traditions…especially UVa. You need to consider more than just the academic factor (or just the reputation). Campus life is also important. If you are still in HS, you should try to visit each campus before you make a decision.</p>
<p>I 85. You need to read my post again. What I said is that UI and UM have contributed more to the advancement of knowledge and have more accomplished faculty. How this translates to teaching undergrads may be argued but my facts are correct and therefore accurate. Many have said that for just plain teaching you can’t beat a CC. But most of prefer to to elsewhere anyway for a variety of reasons.</p>
<p>Also take a look at the graph.</p>
<p><a href=“Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos”>Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos;
<p>I agree with you again, Barrons. It’s hard to use real data on quality of faculty (or reputations of faculty, for that matter) to convince people who are true believers in UVa. But whether you use the kinds of data you cite, or the NRC ratings (now a bit long in the tooth), or USNews ratings you get the same result: the faculty quality at UM and UIUC far excels UVa, and so does the faculty quality at UCB, UWis, UCLA, and UNC. (I was going to add UCSD, and now I see that the graph that you provide a link to also shows how good the faculty at UCSD is – also way ahead of UVa.)</p>
<p>There is nothing wrong with UVa–especially for ug and selected grad areas. But it is a more limited institution in many ways too.</p>
<p>We’re in agreement.</p>
<p>(I am focusing only on the quality of education for undergrads.)
Okay, it seems that what barrons and mackinaw value the most in determining a school’s quality is the number of faculty members who have distinguished themselves with outstanding research in their fields. This might matter for grad students who are planning to do research with the help of a faculty member, but for undergrads who are to be taught first, this isn’t very much of a help.
The ‘accomlished’ faculty member teaches more effectively than a ‘normal’ one? This can be true or false. But it is true that a teacher with no distinguishable prize can certainly be more inspiring than a nobel prize winner, and this is what most undergrads need.</p>
<p>The # of ‘accomplished’ faculty members does not determine a school’s quality.
I suspect you’ll not consider top LACs like Amherst, Swarthmore, Williams, Pomona, Reed, Oberlin, etc. are worse than the schools you have mentioned above, just because there is a fewer number of faculty members who are ‘accomlished’.</p>
<p>As for people not going to CCs, it is because CCs are mostly not recognized as a regular university and thus lack the prestige that is quite important in jobs, graduate work, etc.
Also, the faculty members at a CC might be just as skilled as that at a prestigious institution in teaching, but the students there are generally of a lower caliber than those at at prestigions schools, which will likely make the faculty teach not as hard as it should. This is because their students as a whole do not study as hard or are simply not smart enough. </p>
<p>This is where the quality of the student body comes into play. At a school where most of the students are academically talented and engaged, the faculty is ‘forced’ to put more effort in teaching, so as not to leave its students unchallenged and unsatisfied.
This is why the quality of students at a school is important in forming the school’s quality. At a school where only the lazy, dumb students prevail, it is obvious that the quality of instruction will deteriorate. A school can be great only when the faculty is knowledgeable and its students are academically qualified and engaged. Indeed, the trend is that the more highly a school is regarded, the more academically qualified its students are.</p>
<p>And I guess we’re going off the original topic.
Let’s not forget that the original poster wishes to know if he should transfer from UIUC to UVA or Michigan.</p>
<p>harri,
I think you worry too much. I can tell you UIUC also is a widely regarded school, and if you do well there there is no reason you’ll suffer after graduation.
UVA, Michigan, Illinois are just about equal in quality. I’m even curious why you would transfer from a good public school to a school of similar level.
The story is a little different if you’re transferring to HYPSM, though.</p>
<p>Check this out:
<a href=“http://www.utexas.edu/law/faculty/bleiter/Undergra2001.html[/url]”>http://www.utexas.edu/law/faculty/bleiter/Undergra2001.html</a></p>
<p>There’s a section on the ‘Top 50 for Overall Faculty Quality’ and some more rankings for undergrad. education quality.</p>
<p>Don’t you think this is a bit outdated?
It’s 2005 now, and things might have changed.</p>
<p>I know. sure it’s different…but i don’t think the rank will change 20 places in a few yrs…unless some whacko thing happens.</p>