True, however most people who have the grades to make it into the UW are middle class and do not qualify for financial aid, which is reserved for those who qualify for free school lunches. Most of those who qualify for free school lunches in western Washington are illegal immigrants. This is just another example of the Democrats sacrificing the many for the few, screwing over the middle class at every turn.
In Washington, illegal immigrants made up 3.4% of the population in 2010, according to http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/map_of_the_week/2013/02/map_illegal_immigrant_population_by_state.html .
If we define “low income” as the lowest X% income population for any X > 6.8, then more than half of low income people are not illegal immigrants. The free lunch threshold is probably the lowest 25% or so, with the reduced price lunch threshold probably the lowest 35% or so. So if “low income” is defined by free or reduce price lunch, then only a small portion of low income people are illegal immigrants.
Good god. Thanks, ucbalumnus for clearing that up.
Please spare us with the pithy political commentary.
University of Washington is already one of the more heavily impacted state flagships – see the list of majors showing a large percentage of them requiring a higher GPA (than needed to stay in good academic standing) or competitive admission to enter for students already at the school.
http://www.washington.edu/uaa/advising/academic-planning/majors-and-minors/list-of-undergraduate-majors/
It is likely that a cut in tuition without replacement funding from some other source (state government, or tuition paying out-of-state and international students) will result in even more capacity cuts of either the school or various majors. Be careful what you ask for.
We are looking at taking on a considerable amount of debt to send our twins to college next fall and I may be in the minority, but I agree with those who have stated that it is a worthwhile investment for which to take on the debt. Perhaps one of the arguments not yet made is the value in learning to live away from home in a community of strangers from all walks of life. I lived on-campus a few hours away from home and I still believe that the best education I received was living in those dorms and learning to live with others. Yes, of course, I had a great time and the whole college experience was wonderful, but the lessons learned were invaluable. I absolutely want my children to have the same opportunity. I’m in the unfortunate position with the rest of the NJ residents and can attest that after researching for nearly two years what our best options are for our twins, our in-state choices are abysmal. Yes, my kids could commute to Rutgers for $14,000/year and I have no doubt that they would get a decent education. But I don’t believe that it’s wise to invest a considerable amount of money into something just because it’s the cheapest option. I have many friends here in NJ (husband and I are Mid-West transplants here) who commuted from home and their lack of life experience is evident - they have little awareness that there is a world that exists outside of NJ. For some, that works out fine for them and that is great. It’s simply not what I want for my children. I have one that will likely go to an OOS public in the South for very little more than going to Rutgers and one who will likely go to an expensive Northeastern private that, even with considerable merit money (we hope!), will probably still require significant loans. But I think we are realistic and smart about it - both have definite and clear career goals, a solid 4 year plan with positive job prospects, and we have already begun researching the loans, the repayment schedules, and what is feasible. They know it’s not “the sky’s the limit” approach, but they also know that there are options out there for them aside from driving back and forth to a classroom down the road.
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You don’t have to live in a dorm to meet different kinds of people or experience different ways of life. Most of my siblings commuted to SUNY schools like I did and we spent our summers traveling. We visited Mexico and Canada, and took road trips all over the US. Many of our children are doing the same. One commuted to SUNY schools for 4-years and used the money she saved for a trip to Canada, 2 trips to Europe, at least one to Hawaii, and many US road trips. Another used the money he saved for a backpacking tour of Europe and extensive travel in the US. The 3 youngest haven’t been to Europe yet, but they’ve been to Canada and taken multiple US road trips too. Commuting only limits your life experience if you let it.
I said a similar thing the other day on another thread. The question was about the COA and how close “other expenses” (books, fees and “personal expenses”) was to reality. I stated that when comparing schools, we ignored that number because I figured it would be about the same for my kid no matter regardless of the school and if one is worried about those expenses, you’re cutting it too close!
Note: We were looking at all schools within driving distance so no big difference in travel expenses which is one thing I would have put back in if we were considering schools of tremendous travel distances.
What prevents them from attending Rutgers and living in the dorm for frosh year? If affordable, living in the dorm frosh year is associated with various benefits in terms of college success. In subsequent years, many students at Rutgers and other state flagship type schools do live off campus; if your kids go to Rutgers, the possibility of commuting from home in later years can be seen as just another option that is available (in addition to dorm and off-campus housing), particularly if the money situation gets worse than expected.
Or is this just another case of “anywhere but Rutgers” for NJ residents?
Going away to college is not the only way to get life experience. Indeed, it is certainly possible that living in the dorm at Rutgers and the University of Alabama are more similar than living as a non-student in New Brunswick, NJ versus Tuscaloosa, AL, or living as a college student at any college versus going to work or military service after high school.
OTOH, I wanted my kids to have my experience moving away from home, living in a dorm, meeting kids from all over the world. That was important to me. (and to spouse). And we happily made financial sacrifices to make that happen.
OTOH, I have met dozens (probably hundreds) of people in my life who lived in a college dorm far from home and could accurately be described as completely provincial, limited world-view, no knowledge or appreciation for anything outside their own four walls.
So I don’t think living in a dorm is an insurance policy for becoming cosmopolitan and worldly, and I don’t think commuting from home for college is a doomsday sentence. I’ve met adults who have (quite seriously) told me that I am the first Jewish person they’ve ever known. Which if they came from rural Idaho or South Dakota (places with tiny Jewish populations) would be quite believable- but these are people from urban cities or suburban areas with substantial Jewish populations, AND they’ve attended colleges and grad schools with HUGE Jewish populations.
Which suggests to me that if you grow up in New Canaan CT and attend private school and spend your weekends at a restricted country club and then head off to Harvard determined to stick with “your own kind”- you can, in fact, reach the age of 25 without ever having to mingle with people who have different backgrounds than yours. I had a colleague who worked at a huge corporation in NYC with me who asked me one day as we were walking back to the office from lunch why so many Amish people work in New York city. I explained that they weren’t Amish- they were Jewish, and their particular religious practice was not to shave their beards and she was dumbfounded. This was someone living and working in Manhattan, graduate of a fine university with a huge Jewish population, traveled the world, who DID NOT KNOW that there were Jews living anywhere but in Israel (which is what she had learned in her church- that Jesus was a Jew and that modern Jews live in Israel).
So sure- dorms are great. But they are no guarantees that your kids will learn from, live with, be exposed to kids who are different.
NJFabFour: I totally agree. People that don’t experience living in dorms away from home, at least two years, just don’t get it. Learning to live with others you like or don’t, having to make decisions on your own, etc., are a valuable education, as much as the actual college education. We also live in Jersey and neither of our two children even applied to Rutgers. Our school district is one of the best in the state based on SAT scores and other standardized tests. One child went undergrad in North Carolina at a private university. She initially was recruited for a sport (but no athletic money). She graduated and attends law school in North Carolina. The other is an undergrad two time zones away.
austinms “You don’t have to live in a dorm to meet different kinds of people or experience different ways of life. Most of my siblings commuted to SUNY schools like I did and we spent our summers traveling. We visited Mexico and Canada, and took road trips all over the US. Many of our children are doing the same. One commuted to SUNY schools for 4-years and used the money she saved for a trip to Canada, 2 trips to Europe, at least one to Hawaii, and many US road trips. Another used the money he saved for a backpacking tour of Europe and extensive travel in the US. The 3 youngest haven’t been to Europe yet, but they’ve been to Canada and taken multiple US road trips too. Commuting only limits your life experience if you let it.”
Taking a week-long trip or a month-long trip is not the same as living out-of-state or out-of-area ina doirm or off-campus for 9-10 months or more a year for more than a year.
But going ‘away’ to college is no guarantee either. My cousin went to the top LAC. There were 6 girls living in her suite, each had an individual room and they shared the rest. Three of them were named some form of Katie/Kate/Katy, and I think two others were Heather (gee, how that lone ‘Jennifer’ must have felt so different!). They also had a wide range of places they came from - CT, NY, and MA. They were all white. Not exactly the UN. I just didn’t see this big eye opening experience in having to get along with others so different from you. I’m sure there were squabbles over bathroom time and noise, but I had those at home with my 5 brothers and sister long before college.
I did want for my kids to be able to go to a residential college, but I recognized that I had to pay for it. It is a luxury, not a necessity, and if I couldn’t afford it they wouldn’t get to go.
It is very nice to live for 4 years after HS in a college bubble where you are slowly becoming real adult. Pretty much an like an extended summer camp. If the family can afford it - that is great. But going into massive debt for this experience - it is another story.
NJ is pretty diverse, has easy access to multiple international airports and major cities with all the attractions and cultural opportunities. It is pretty easy to discover life outside of NJ. How OOS public in the South will better expand you horizons comparing to what NYC and Phila Metro areas have to offer is not clear to me. I would assume that NJ residents will dread going deep South for college even more than going to Rutgers (Tulane, Vanderbilt, Duke and Emory may be exceptions).
I agree! Fortunately, for my H and me our parents could afford it, and since we can afford it that is the opportunity we are giving our kids. It’s a great experience and a chance to have that middle ground where they are adults learning to make their own decisions and living on their own, yet still under the protection of their parents and their parents’ resources.
But not at the cost of massive debt…
There are definite benefits to going away to college, and they are benefits that just cannot be recreated by taking 10 vacations during school. When you’re living in a dorm, 2-3 hrs from mom/dad, you have to learn to navigate issues that come up on your own; you don’t get that as much when you live at home – bc most kids who commute go to school and go home – they don’t have the same 24-7 interaction that you have to have in campus housing (which can be a pain but it’s a life skill). You also make friends and bond with people in a different way because you are constantly around them, including at night and on weekends; it’s not so much that you plan activities with them (you might), but it’s just a general being around others all the time that causes you to bond.
Honestly if it were me and I had a choice between going to Rutgers from home or going away to a southern public and living in a dorm and both were the same price – I would choose the latter. Doesn’t matter if it’s in Alabama or Georgia or whatever. It’s 4 yrs to do something different, not to mention – kids who go far away get used to traveling (I can always tell the junior employees who have never had to navigate flight delays and changes from those who have been doing it since age 18). Now if it was a question of taking out 50k in debt just to go away – I wouldn’t - -but if the prices come out the same, why not??
I agree that living in a dorm isn’t the same as how my family has chosen to live. My niece decided to go to college across state when she was 17, so at 18 she drove to the college town she wanted to live in, got a job and apartment, and has lived on her own ever since. She was a late bloomer. Her grandmother graduated from high school just after she turned 16 and left home that fall to be a nanny and work her way through school. However, I’m sure she’ll get by with whatever skills she missed by not moving from her parents’ home directly to a college dorm just like her grandmother did.
What if the Rutgers option is in the dorm (or near campus in later years)?
Perhaps an alternative question is, suppose you are a parent in or near New Brunswick, NJ. Suppose the kid is choosing between:
Rutgers – commute from parents’ house (lowest cost)
Rutgers – living in the dorm (comfortably affordable)
out-of-state and private schools – comparable net price (after financial aid and/or scholarships) to Rutgers living in the dorm
If the kid wants to go to Rutgers but wants to live in the dorm in frosh year, would you let him/her do so even though commuting would cost less?
@ucbalumnus – for the scenarios you set up, the answers differ for each family based on its finances. For some families – the only thing they can come close to affording is the cheapest option, so if that’s Rutgers from home then it’s Rutgers from home. For other families, they’d prefer the cheapest option but there is enough give in the budget that they can afford some R&B – so for them it may be ok to finance some R&B and let the student take some debt for the rest of room and board. Me personally – I’ve very pro-dorm (or pro-apartment if that’s cheaper than a dorm) as I stated above bc I think the student does gain some non-school related skills and experiences from that; so if I could make on campus living happen without getting weighed down with too much debt, I would esp for the first few yrs.
For my post, I was just saying – as a former NJ resident – I totally understand and agree when a student/family chooses a southern public OOS vs. Rutgers in-state at reasonably the same costs. Rutgers isn’t that fantastic of an education – I mean it’s fine, but it’s no better in quality than what you’d get in Tennessee or Alabama or Georgia or Texas – so go experience one of those states and campuses. Many/most NJ residents do come back to the area, so if he does come back for a job – having a different school name on his resume will set him apart from the hordes of Rutgers grads in the state and give him some different talking points.