How far would you drive for AP testing?

Parents Forum
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<p>My middle son (current junior) is trying for competitive places - not Ivy, but not far below. He wants to be Pre-med and is potentially interested in places that have a guarantee into med school.</p>

<p>Our local high school is NOT academically on par with what we’d like, so he’s been homeschooled since 7th grade (and tutors his high school peers in math/chem). This school also does not offer AP tests nor will they order them for us since they don’t give them to their own students (I asked). Our plan had been to take community college classes as a dual enrolled student instead. He’s finishing two this semester (micro-bio and effective speaking - both A’s - and he’s leading a main study group for micro-bio with the highest grade in the class). However, being hit with the economy, money for more community college classes is just not there right now (costs $660 for each three credit and $880 for each four credit course, but we struggle each month just to pay our mortgage).</p>

<p>He has a 33 on his ACT and can retake it in April. We’ll see what his PSAT score is next month, but I can’t help but look at the competition on here and notice that most have multiple AP tests. He could take Bio, Chem, and Stats this year if I can find a place that will offer them. How far would you drive to add those to his transcript? The guidance counselor at our local high school thinks it’ll be at least an hour away, but I’ll know for certain when I contact collegeboard in Jan. If I can find them within an hour or two, would you sign up for it or let it go and figure he has what he has?</p>

<p>NOTE: I’m not really worried about his getting accepted to at least one of his choices, possibly more, but I am actively interested in seeing that he’s competitive for good scholarships and any direct guarantee for med school. I’m thinking he’ll need either more community college A’s or AP scores for that, won’t he? Or am I not thinking about this correctly?</p>

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<p>The primary benefit for my D regarding AP scores was that she entered college as a 2nd semester freshman - so it saved us either 1) a whole semester of tuition if she chooses to graduate early, or 2) the ability to do study abroad for a semester without worrying about transfer credits, or 3) flexibility in scheduling since she placed out of 4 general ed credits. My nieces were homeschooled (actually “boat-schooled”) but were advised by a college admissions counselor to take a couple AP tests prior to applying for college. So it couldn’t hurt. They also entered college with a couple credits under their belt.</p>

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<p>There’s no additional benefit to taking a bunch of AP’s versus a bunch of community college classes.
Stop blowing the money you already confess you don’t have</p>

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<p>I think it’s worth it to demonstrate that your son does indeed have the “chops” for college-level work, and an AP test is a lot less than community college tuition. But it sounds like you’ll need to be creative to identify a high school that can help–the College Board could tell you what school near you offers tests, or you could even combine the test with a well-timed college visit and just cold-call a nearby high school to see if they’ll accommodate you? (if your school’s GC can make the call or write a letter, that would probably help, so they’re not worried about someone trying to scam the security system)</p>

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<p>*My middle son (current junior) is trying for competitive places - not Ivy, but not far below. He wants to be Pre-med and is potentially interested in places that have a guarantee into med school.</p>

<p>but I am actively interested in seeing** that he’s competitive for good scholarships **and any direct guarantee for med school.
*</p>

<p>I don’t know what schools you’re talking about, but many of those schools don’t give merit scholarships…or they only give them to target specific high stats students…like URMs or students from unusual areas of the country.</p>

<p>If your son is going to be pre-med and you want big scholarship money, you really need to have him apply to schools below that top 20 area. Any good school can prepare a student for med school. Going to a top 20 (or even top 50) is not necessary.</p>

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<p>You might be able to get fee waivers for the AP tests. I suggest his taking the tests if</p>

<p>1) Money is not a problem .
2) He has enough time to prepare for them.
3) You expect him to get mostly 5s.</p>

<p>If he is taking the tests in the same subjects as his community college classes, he should check that the community college classes will actually prepare him for the tests. Often college classes have a somewhat different emphasis than AP tests.</p>

<p>Many homeschooled students are admitted to top colleges every year. Some have APs. Some do not. All have something to demonstrate their excellence. If having your son take AP classes is a hardship, and you explain that on his application in the counselor’s letter, colleges will understand. Just make sure he has something on his transcript to show how outstanding he is.</p>

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<p>Definitely check with schools near your home. It’s hard to believe that you in such a rural area that no high schools have APs within an hour range. Not all schools have all APs so keep that in mind also.</p>

<p>Not to highjack the thread and your original question but mom2 is spot on. You should use time this year to find colleges/unis that have high percentages of students accepted into med school. It might mirror USNWR but again, there will be some outliers where your son could garner some decent merit money. For instance my CTCL college boasts a 95% acceptance rate into med school and a 99% acceptance rate into vet and dental school. A decade ago or so when things were less competitive it was 98% into med school. Many CTCL schools would fall below “your” vision based on CTCL. Take this valuable time you have this year with a junior to not only worry about the application but WHERE to target those applications. Colleges do a very good job of parsing opportunities and variances in students educational backgrounds.</p>

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<p>Keep in mind that the AP courses and AP tests are different things. One can learn the material on their own and take any AP test- getting the top score, likewise one can take an AP course and not pass the AP test. He can get hold of AP test study materials and study on his own. It seems as though he is now in the local HS- maybe they’ll let him design an independent study course so he can prepare for AP exams in a subject. Some schools do not offer AP Biology, but a different advanced biology class for example- a bit of additional studying of the AP subjects not covered can garner the top “5” on the test.</p>

<p>How far should he go to take the AP tests in May? An hour’s drive the day of the particular test? Or make arrangements to stay in a hotel or with a family in the city offering them those days?</p>

<p>I know that our public flagship U takes into account the rigor of the schedule available to students- those without them do not suffer in that regard. I would rather have my son spending his time learning new material rather than having him spend it tutoring other kids- that is abusive if the school thinks it substitutes for gifted/talented education.</p>

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<p>I know this isn’t answering your question, but I’m confused about some contradictions. You home schooled your son… because why? You sound frustrated with your local hs, yet you use their services (GC, AP tests if only). He’s already signed up doing dual credits. Isn’t that sufficient? You are worried about money and then you’re thinking that your son will be going to med school. That usually requires 4 yrs college + 4 yrs med school + 1 yr intern + 1 yr residency + 3 yrs specialist = 13 more years before he earns any money as a Dr. are you prepared to pay for those years of education?</p>

<p>I’d think you might want to consider a small LAC that offers wonderful merit scholarships. For instance: F&M Many colleges prepare kids as “pre-med”.</p>

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<p>Creekland isn’t using his/her local school. His/her (OK, I pick her, sorry Creekland if you’re a guy) son goes to community college. Homeschoolers go to community college by registering at the community college, not by doing something at high school. Normally homeschoolers take AP tests at their local high school (she does pay taxes, after all) but in this case she can’t even do that. </p>

<p>She’s homeschooling because the local school is bad. How is that contradictory? Many homeschoolers homeschool to escape bad local schools.</p>

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<p>To answer your top line question:</p>

<p>When we used to live in a big city, we didn’t think twice about driving an hour each way to eat at our favorite restaurant. </p>

<p>Now that we live in the boonies, we used to think nothing of driving 300miles each way to have 6 yr olds play a couple of games of hockey. </p>

<p>So, an hour for AP tests? :-)</p>

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<p>Thanks to all. More info for those that asked:</p>

<p>Yes, this son is homeschooled currently taking two courses at our local community college. He could have taken more, but we are limited by money and I’d rather see him still keep freshman status when he goes to college. His tutoring of chem and math is 100% on his own with others he comes across who are struggling from his circle of friends and their friends. </p>

<p>Our school, and most nearby, have switched away from AP tests and instead offer, “College in the High School” courses which are supposed to be the same as community college credits. The problem is… the only colleges that appear to accept these credits are state schools AND they do not let homeschoolers in to take them AND the content of these courses is rarely up to what is done in the community college courses. The lack of content bothers me the most. I hesitate to say it because one never knows who is reading, but… I work part time in our high school and have for 11 years now. We have great kids there, but… I also went (myself) to a great high school and was well prepared for college, so I know the difference. It’s not just my opinion. Scores both statewide and on SAT tests (kids don’t even know what the ACT is) reflect my thoughts as do all the “good” students who return home talking about how difficult college is (not going to top notch colleges either). Yes, we do get a student that succeeds (meaning SAT > 1400 CR/M) and does well every once in a while (not necessarily every year), but they always do more on their own too - eerily similar to our homeschooling. We’re only semi-rural. Our high school has roughly 1300 students. It’s just a low-education mind-set. Back when we pulled our boys from public schools we met with the middle school principal. He flatly told us, “School is not here to educate the good students. School is here to educate the average student. Around here the average student works at ______, joins the military, or goes to community college.” While NCLB has our school grudgingly working to improve things, it hasn’t come in time for my middle son.</p>

<p>Back to AP. Our school will offer the AP Calc test as that is one they haven’t switched and there might be one or two students this year who want to take it, but my guy will be doing AP Calc next year (as a senior). He’s doing Stats as a junior. Other local schools also offer Calc, but we need Stats, Bio, and Chem. Our guidance counselor didn’t know of any schools within an hour that offer those tests, but I will call collegeboard in Jan to find out.</p>

<p>Finance-wise, I’m the eternal optimist and hope the economy improves/recovers. Just three years ago we not only had decent savings for college and otherwise, our income was sufficient enough to enjoy some perks in life. Since then, our savings tanked and we can’t even cash out at over a 50% loss on some of them (investment real estate that wouldn’t sell). We’ve used our more liquid savings to keep the bills paid (yes, having cut back those perks too, but our oldest is in college now adding more). We’re now racking up some debt to keep basic bills paid. Many people in our major field of income are out of jobs. Our company hasn’t had a new job come in over the past two months. They are still working on completing old jobs at least, but income is down considerably. Finding other jobs isn’t exactly easy either. Time will tell what happens. We’re hopeful that by med school time (6 years) the economy will have improved. Having merit aid instead of just need-based aid will be helpful IF the economy improves as need based aid will be slashed more if our income picks back up.</p>

<p>We are looking at colleges that offer significant aid for high test scores. Pitt is our in-state choice and it was on their forum that I was reading about the competition for top scholarships and the BA/MD route. This is what led to the push to check on AP tests instead of relying on the couple of community college courses and test scores. I’m learning as I go along I suppose. I’m thankful this board is here.</p>

<p>Other colleges being considered include Penn State, Franklin & Marshall, Case Western, University of Rochester, Washington U in St Louis, Alabama, Baylor, Rice, and probably one or two others I’m not remembering first thing in the morning. I give suggestions on places to check out, but he’s doing the bulk of the research on those. Our guidance counselor suggested Shepherd in WV. I’ve got to add that one to his list. He prefers closer to farther away, but knows his top choice will probably need to be dependent upon the financial package and is ok with that. He mainly wants a studious environment and a lab to work in with similarly minded friends educationally. </p>

<p>So… he’s asking “Grandma Clause” for AP prep books, we have materials to homeschool those courses (he’s already started as he’s taking Advanced Chem and Stats anyway, Bio will be review), and we’ll figure out how far we have to drive in Jan when I call collegeboard and potential schools. In May he’ll be ready. AP will be less expensive than doing Chem and Stats at the community college. He found out our community college doesn’t offer college level Chem anyway - just high school level.</p>

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<p>Scholarships are awarded primarily for GPA/ACT/SAT.
Some schools offer many AP’s, others few, and some none. Kids are using some of them for credits and not using others. For example, most pre-meds are advised not to use AP Bio credit and AP Chem credits, despite of “5” on exam. AP’s are not worth to worry about too much. Colleges are aware that some schools do not offer very many while they might prepare kids for college much better in their regular classes than other schools in AP classes. On the other hand some college programs do not allow to gradute earlier even you started as a sophomore. Each situation is unique, got to take into consideration specifics of particular HS as well as each college/program that you are applying. Study/research them in great details, do not rely on anybody here or your college advisor. I did lots of research and my D. liked it to the point that she has asked me to do the same for her Graduate schools (this one is much easier, or maybe I had experience). When we were talking to her HS college advisor, I realized that I know much more about D’s potential UG’s and programs. It was very helpful. D. had few AP’s, her school had limited number of them, and they were not allowed to take classes outside of school and nobody cared to do so. She also ended up in college program that required her to stay in UG for 4 years, so she decided to have minor unrelated to her major, both were fun. She had enough Merit scholarships to cover her tuition and part of R&B. We were not concerned about ranking/elite status, she got to few Graduate schools of her choice, so she did not miss anything recieving great education, developing leadership skills, having best job on campus, having Medical Lab internship and achieving her other goals at state school.</p>

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<p>If he is in the running to be a National Merit Finalist, you’ll want to look at Northeastern University in Boston. They have scholarships for National Merit Finalists that are up to full tuition. They also have an agreement with a medical school (Tufts, perhaps?), that students can be accepted into during their time at NU. </p>

<p>My son is at NU although not pre-med. I’m happy to answer any questions. Best of luck to your son.</p>

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<p>^There are many colleges (including privates) that offer very good Merit scholarships not only to NMF’s but others. One of them is Case Western as an example. D. got around $28,000 /year renewable for 4 years there, but she ended upi going to state school. Applying to combined bs/md is all different ball game, though. It is extremely competitive.</p>

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<p>I think driving an hour or two to take an AP exam is well worth it.</p>

<p>You might want to look up the colleges he is interested in and see if the AP tests he is considering will be accepted as college credits at those particular schools.</p>

<p>Odessagirl tested out of two classes with AP scores of 5. Also tested out of one semester of a language (school requires three semesters of a college language). The language test was not AP - It was done at the college the first or second week of freshman year. So it has definitely helped her have other choices that she may not have had.</p>

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<p>AP exam scores would have the possibility of giving college credit. It would also give an opportunity to proove that the homeschooler has had rigorous academic prep. It would be worth a drive… and I think the money ($90?) too. </p>

<p>Do get an AP prep book to take some test exams. That will help you decide which exams.</p>

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<p>For a home schooled applicant, I would think that the AP test and SATII subject tests are critical measures of how the student is likely to stack up in a conventional environment. So I would encourage taking them. A good testing record really seems critical to getting into top schools or competing for significant merit awards beyond NMF (which obviously is itself based on a standardized test.)</p>

<p>Your original question was how far would you drive to take them…for us, it is a 90 mile drive, each way, to take some tests. For others, they are offered 50 miles away. Occasionally some tests are available here in town.</p>

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<p>I did amazing in my AP classes and not so much on my AP test. If you’re completely confident that you’ll have the time and money to make the hour commute than go for it. But don’t forget that this means taking time out of your work schedules for the commute.</p>

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<p>Most people looking into merit scholarships are advised to target schools where their stats put them at least in the top 25% of the applicant pool. If you are instate for Pitt, you may want to put Temple on your list, as they have a 3 plus 4 undergrad to med program, an intimate honors program and honors housing. They also have merit based scholarships. It is in N Philly, but the campus itself has a nice layout and two subway stops on campus as well as bus and trolley lines. It may be a shock coming from rural PA, but they educate a large number of practicing physicians and dentists in PA, NJ and Delaware.</p>