How hard is it to get into Brown?

Parents Forum
1

Hi Readers,

Ok, I know this sounds kinda ignorant but my daughter just deferred from Brown - she was just devasted - and now won’t complete her other applications. She says that she thinks she still has a shot at getting into Brown (which she may) and won’t submit the other half of her applications as a result.

I am trying to remind her that Brown is a very competitive ivy league school and she should complete her safety and state schools in addition. However, the more I remind her, the more upset she becomes. This morning, she refused to talk to me and slammed the door on my face when I asked if we could work on her remaining 7 applications. I even take the day off from work so we could write them together. She locked her room door and did not leave the rest of the day except for meals.

I think one reason she did not get into Brown is that she can be impulsive and moody, which her teachers may have said in her recommendations. In all honesty, I could care less if she didn’t go to an ivy league school, I just want her to be happy and get into a college.

I am publishing this forum just to have a second opinion and more voices to remind my daughter that no one can expect to get into a school like Brown. So, CC users, how hard is it to get into Brown? In addition, should I write my daughters applications if she refuses to complete them?

Best,

Concerned Mom

2

Hard! She needs a few backups! They accepted more ED then last year… son was denied so we are working on other schools

3

Your daughter should not count on getting into Brown - she will most likely be rejected. I am, by no means. an expert, but I think it may be best to consider getting help for your daughter (counselling, therapy, or something along those lines).

4

“In addition, should I write my daughters applications if she refuses to complete them?” Absolutely not. This isn’t even a close call. These applications have to be HER work.

It sounds like your D has a lot of growing up to do. A Brown admit is incredibly hard to achieve. What does her guidance counselor say?

5

I’m not sure that the key element in this assessment particularly relates to Brown. I see the important aspect as being that your daughter was deferred. As would be the case with most highly selective colleges, an ultimate acceptance after a deferral should be regarded as possible but not especially likely.

6

You are correct that no one can expect to get into Brown. The acceptance rate is less than 10%. It’s highly competitive for every single applicant. Your daughter is not being realistic. Unless she wants to find herself at home taking a gap year, she needs to get moving on her other applications for match and safety schools.

You doing her application is NOT an option. If she isn’t mature enough to complete her applications, she doesn’t sound ready for college.

7

Here are some comments in no particular order. Apologies if it sounds a bit harsh.

–Brown has well under a 10% acceptance rate. Simply put, there is not enough space for the college to accept all of the well qualified students who apply. Brown must be considered a reach school for any unhooked applicant. She should have understood this from the start of the application process.

– The best chance of acceptance into a college is in the ED round. There is no reason or justifiable grounds for your D to count on the fact that she will be accepted in the RD round after being deferred in the ED round.

–It is not unusual for a person to sulk for a day or two after a disappointing admissions result, but your D’s behavior and attitude is immature, rude, and goes against all logic.

–Your D should speak to her guidance counselor about how to handle the next steps of the application process. If necessary , you should contact the guidance counselor and ask him/her to call your D in to discuss submitting additional applications.

–You cannot prepare and submit other applications on behalf of your D.

–Your D should consider seeing a therapist to work on handling disappointing situations better. This will likely not be the only setback she faces in life.

–If your D does not fill out other applications I would make it clear to her now that if she doesn’t get into Brown (and doesn’t have a college to attend) that she will need to spend her gap year at home working and saving money for college.

–Her immaturity in dealing with this setback indicates that maybe a gap year to mature a bit may not be the worst idea.

–The whole notion of there being only one school your D is interested in is insane – especially since Brown is so competitive in terms of admissions. Your D needs forget the idea of having one “dream school”, expand her horizons, and recognize that there are many wonderful schools out there where she can have a great 4 year experience and get wherever she wants to go in life.

-Here are some admissions stats for Brown https://www.brown.edu/about/administration/institutional-research/factbook/undergraduate-admission-and-financial-aid

8

You may wish to research some local community colleges or in-state public schools with rolling admissions, as some allow applications as late as May for the following Fall. It can be helpful to know all the options.

9

Virtual hugs to @ElleLakes, this must be very difficult for you. But, you may want to view this deferral as a blessing in that it is spotlighting an issue with your daughter that needs addressing. Thank goodness she is slamming the door in your face, and not in her future roommate’s face when she doesn’t get all of the classes she wants, or isn’t chosen for a research project. Resiliency is an important skill she needs before she is ready to move away and take on the world. Your suspicion that her teachers may have seen this behavior indicates this is not a singular event, but a pattern. Get her, and yourself, some help. You cannot bail her out now, or if the future if she is going to become a successful adult, so I don’t think you filling out her applications will prove useful. It’s time for you to look beyond what she wants and ascertain (honestly) what she needs.

10

Oh my - my son was also deferred from Brown. I understand her feelings. I am still holding out hope too, because I think it would be a great place for him, but considering they took an athlete already from his high school early decision, we’re figuring odds are slim.

As far as how to handle things with your daughter, I don’t know what to tell you. Are there any apps you two can submit without any additional writings needed?

But I think the primary focus should be that something else is going on that you need to address. Perhaps a gap year is in order.

11

Was this an older sibling of the subject of this thread?
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1915808-help-me-p1.html

12

My eldest was deferrred and then rejected from Brown. She was crushed at the time but she went on to another LAC and thrived… in fact, ended up in a major she loved that Brown doesn’t even have. As a college graduate with a great job that allows her to be fully independent, she has no regrets.

Give your daughter some time to grieve. Try to not say anything about it for a few days. She should move forward after that but of course you shouldn’t do her applications.

13

Decisions came out the 13th. It’s been over 2 weeks. If she hasn’t grieved by now, time is a wastin’

14

My D was deferred last year in the ED round and later rejected from Brown. While she was disappointed, she chose her second choice school and is very happy there.

By the time ED decisions came out, she had already heard from three EA schools and had sent in applications to two others that had merit deadlines. She had the rest ready to go after hearing from Brown.

I think Brown’s acceptance rate was under 7% last year. That is a huge reach for everyone. I hope your D comes to accept that and gets other applications turned in.

15

I had provided these stats previously but offer them again in the hope they offer some perspective on her chances.

The RD admission rate at Brown this year is likely to be 5% or lower (5.7% last year with more ED spots offered this year). Historically ED deferred students at Brown (like your daughter) get in at lower percentages then RD applicants. We are talking in the 3-4% range. Your daughter needs to prepare for the very strong likelihood that she will be rejected RD.

Unfortunately the entire admissions process at elite schools involves getting enormous numbers (31,926 RD last year at Brown) down to small manageable groups.

During the RD round, eliminating the first 15 of 20 kids is (while not easy), fairly manageable. Ultimately however you still have approximately 7,000 RD applicants who are all highly qualified for the limited 1,829 spots offered in RD last year (fewer this year given ED round). For a deferred ED student to get an offer they have to stand out in both the pool of deferred students and against the “highly” qualified top echelon of RD applicants.

That is why numerically you see the lower acceptance rate of ED deferred candidates vs RD rate.

Now for some more sobering news. With ED applications up 20% yield should also rise from last years 64.9% (1,665 enrolled from 2,566 accepted). This will likely translate into fewer wait list and ED deferred spots opening up down the line and an even more rigorous process throughout as total applications is likely to rise as students seek to take advantage of the Brown Promise.

Not trying to destroy hope but temper expectations. I am sure your daughter has worked very hard to be a strong candidate. She should not waste all of that effort!!

Very sorry your daughter is responding this way and certainly hope it all works out.

16

Brown is not only hard to get into but a little quirky and unpredictable in its admissions. I know people who got into Harvard and Yale but not Brown.

A kid who likes Brown might also like a number of schools with similar vibe (and freedom to choose classes if that was a priority for her). How did she get so fixed on Brown?

Clearly today is the last day for applying to many schools. You have to step back and leave it to her. If I were you, I would go out today and do something you enjoy. Tell her it is her choice, before you leave, and mean it.

Many kids exhibit unusual behavior with the stress of senior year and it is not always predictive. But it does sound like this has been a pattern before. Her denial really would seem to indicate a need for counseling asap.

I have to say, I thought your comment about whether you should do her applications for her was a joke. If serious, I find it shocking, and would recommend counseling for you too.

Good luck.

17

My opinion…

Your daughter will do what she has to do…or she won’t. If she doesn’t get applications done for her top other school choices, she can take a gap year and apply again in the fall. OR she can apply to her public universities which probably have a later a application deadline. OR she can wait for that list of schools with openings after May 1 to come out and apply to those.

For others reading this…my first suggestion is…if your child applies ED or EA, they should have their other applications either submitted…or ready to hit the submit button. If they are accepted ED, they can withdraw all other pending applications. But if the student is rejected or deferred, it’s a lot easier to hit the submit button on those other applications than do the applications from scratch.

18

I interviewed for Brown for years (lived in a couple of places where there weren’t strong alumni groups) and in all that time- exactly one of my interviewees was accepted. And he was beyond exceptional in every possible way (not that your daughter is not) ; low income, first generation to even think about college let alone apply, economically disadvantaged town with low performing schools, etc. Just a voracious intellect, work ethic, maturity, kind, his teachers and classmates loved him, and a brilliant student.

So every year I would dust myself off that all the great and creative and amazing HS kids that I interviewed and wrote equally amazing write-ups on were rejected (but accepted to terrific colleges across the country) and realize that the pool is very, very strong. And yes- I interviewed some kids who were not amazing students who were applying because grandpa was an alumnus or because their parents were making them apply. But in general- I met terrific HS kids and it was disappointing to get the update from the regional rep and see that all “my kids” were rejected. (except for the year I met Mr. Amazing).

Why do I share this? Your D should understand that the numbers are not in her favor now, and were never in her favor going in to the process. It is tempting for kids and parents to look at the daunting rejection numbers and say “Yeah, but those kids had B+ averages and 600 SAT scores”. Nope. Those rejected kids had strong- often exceptional stats, and equally strong applications and teachers who love them and guidance counselors who happily wrote “this is one of the strongest students I have met in my career”. And varsity tennis and oodles of hours volunteering for a cause they care about, or phenomenal strength as a poet or musician or kabuki performer or equestrian (who also teaches kids with CP how to ride and care for horses and works as a waiter at a diner to pay for riding lessons.) Just amazing kids. Like your D. And they get rejected- like your D. And they end up in college- in a place they love, and they get a wonderful education- just like your D.

The only difference between all these “deferred from Brown but I still got an incredible education” kids and your D, is that they mourned, looked hard at the likelihood of getting accepted after a deferral, and moved on.

Your D needs to move on (which you know) but you can’t do her applications for her (which you know) and you can’t “make her” apply to the rest of her colleges.

What you can do is to sit her down and explain that these are her choices: 1–Apply to her one safety school, which likely will take half an hour, tops, since she can reuse most of her Brown application, and deal with the fact that she is most likely going there; 2-- apply to none of her colleges and accept the fact that she is most likely NOT going to college next year and will have to find a job and start the process all over again in the Fall; 3-- apply to all the colleges on her list, i.e. the original plan, and likely have some great choices in April; 4- wait until April and when she is (likely) rejected from Brown, figure out if there are colleges still accepting applications (there usually are) or do a year at community college and live at home.

Her education, her choice, and you support any of them. What she cannot do, is hide in her room and pretend that she will magically head off to college in August without sending in another application because there are zero colleges which allow you to just show up with your XL sheets and laptop and start attending classes without at least sending in a HS transcript and your social security number. That isn’t happening. So since she can’t hide- ask her how you can best help her make one of her 4 choices…

Hugs. This is a bump in the road.

And if you send your D’s list and her stats, , we can help you figure out if she’s targeting the right schools. I know a lot of Brown hopefuls who end up loving Middlebury, Muhlenberg, Franklin and Marshall, U Vermont, Mt Holyoke… some terrific colleges which are a skootch less competitive for admissions (but your D needs to hustle- it’s New Year’s Eve).

19

I completely understand your maternal instinct to submit more applications on her behalf. It is natural for us to want to protect our kids. Don’t do it. Your daughter needs to learn resilience - that she can rebound from “failure” on her own.

Any chance that while holed up in her room she was researching and applying to other colleges? Maybe she was, but just didn’t want to admit it?

Sorry you are going through this. I’d be feeling a combination of fury, helplessness and disappointment too if it was my DD. Ultimately you’re going to have to remind her to “bloom where she is planted”. If she does that well enough, she can go to Brown for graduate school. First, insist that pity time is over. Make a new plan. NOW. Life goes on.

20

Now…regarding Brown.

For now, this student needs to put Brown on the back burner. Maybe an acceptance will come through and maybe not. In the meantime…the options have been clearly spelled out above. Either the STUDENT applies elsewhere…or not.

We know two kids who were tippy top students, and one was a Brown legacy. Neither got accepted to Brown. Both were deferred in the early round. Both went elsewhere to college.

One of these students was class Val, an Eagle Scout, 4.0 unweighted GPA, excellent SAT 2 scores (all 800). Weak link In the application was his CR SAT score which was 650 or so. He had an 800 on the math side.

Second kid (the legacy one) was top 10% of the class, >1500 SAT score, really solid and smart kid.

Both deferred, both rejected.

I don’t know how many deferred applicants at Brown actually end up with an acceptance, but I’m betting the %age is LOW. Brown has tons of very well qualified applicants and it can’t accept all of them.