How hard is it to get into CS major? And what is the difference between IT/IS and CS?

Applying to College
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I’m a current junior interested in CS, but I don’t know how hard is it to get into one of those top CS programs (CMU, MIT, Columbia), and I have no clue how competitive the major is and if I can handle the schoolwork in college. What level of difficulty should I expect?

As in undergraduate application, I haven’t done any CS competitions or passion projects to showcase my interest, but I took one year of CS last year and I am also taking a CS elective at my school this year. Is it too late for me to try for the prestigious CS programs now? If not, what are some things I can do before the college application deadline to impress the admission counselors. It’d be great if you can get as specific as possible, like what competitions, passion projects opportunities, and/or summer programs I should do.

Additionally, while I do have a passion for coding, I know that I’m not the smartest coder with the best brain, and I’m kind of terrified by the saying that CS major is super competitive and only the people with great competition stats can get into the top programs. So I’m also thinking IT/IS as an alternative, but I can’t pin point the exact difference between CS and IT/IS. I noticed that for many of the prestigious colleges, their CS major (7%) has a much lower acceptance rate than their IT/IS major (25%). What is the difference between CS and IT/IS (college and career wise), and what stats do I need to get into these programs at elite schools.

Just for reference, below are my background & stats:

  • Citizenship status: US permanent resident

  • State/Location of residency: NYC, NY

  • Type of high school: public high school

  • Gender/Race/Ethnicity: Female/Asian

  • Other special factors: first generation, student athlete, low-income, ELL (English Language Learner)

  • 4.0 UW and 1530 super-scored SAT

  • AP Chemistry (4), AP World History (4), and AP Statistics (4) in sophomore year. Right now I’m taking AP CS A, AP Physics 1, AP Macro, AP Micro, AP Chinese.

  • Honors for Geometry, Algebra 2, Precalculus as well as all of the science courses.

  • One year of introductory CS course in school, where I learned about Dr.Racket, Netlogo, and Python. And I’m taking a java elective this year.

  • No academic awards.

  • Swimming varsity team for 3 years

  • Tutoring underachieved students for one hour every week

  • Family responsibilities for around an hour everyday

  • 3-hour commute every day

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A couple thoughts for you, maybe sideways to your question, but I think important:

—Some “prestigious” schools require you to apply to a certain department (like computer science) or college (like engineering), but many do not - you apply as an undergraduate and find your fit. If you’re concerned about competing specifically with other computer science students for entrance into the computer science major, you might consider prioritizing those schools. An extra benefit is that it gives you time to see if you really do love computer science, given that you’re newer to the field, without having made so much of a commitment. Experimentation is your friend!

—“IT/IS” is rarely a major at a “prestigious” school. Obviously it depends on your definition of prestigious, but I can’t think of a single example offhand. Generally you’ll find IT as a course of study in a more professional school, and to the extent IS differs, you might find it in a business school. I’m not sure what you’re thinking about when you compare the percentages, and so it’s hard to really compare the work.

In general, the work that a computer science student does is very different than the work an IT student does after college, and CS degrees are very much a clearer path to modern software development jobs at high-paying institutions, both because of what you’ve learned and because of the reputational difference between the two - but any one student can be successful separate from the generalities.

And yes, once you’ve been admitted, computer science at top universities (like any science or engineering, or really any major) is quite challenging, with very high expectations. That’s not about competing with others, though - that’s about your own work and success.

Good luck!

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Linking to OP’s previous Chance Me thread for reference.

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Computer science at CMU and MIT is very competitive…and admission to all three of these schools (adding on Columbia) is highly competitive.

This is from your other thread:

Thanks! I don’t really care about the tuition cost or location, but I really want schools that have high rankings for their CS or IT programs.

Yeah I’m eligible for Questbridge, which I will do in senior year

If you are Questbridge eligible, you should care about tuition cost…because you can’t attend any college unless you can pay the costs to attend.

If you apply Questbridge, I would urge you to include the full allowed number of colleges. @Mwfan1921 am I correct!

So…what should you do? Continue to get excellent grades. But I would also urge you to look at schools where you might qualify for enough merit aid to make the colleges affordable.

Was your PSAT score sufficiently high to possibly make you eligible to be a national merit scholar? Check that because it will open up some doors for you.

You seem interested only in these top programs, and really you need to start at the bottom when you build your college application list…finding a sure thing for admission that you like, and affordable. Find those first. Then the reach schools.

Questbridge is great if you are chosen. But also look in your home state for college assistance programs at your public universities for low income students. Some states have these. NY has TAP, and Excelsior (one or the other) and some good affordable options at some of its public universities.

I’ll tag @sybbie719 who is familiar with NY and the colleges there, and where you should at least consider applying in terms of computer science and affordability.

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In terms of tuition cost, I’m planning to apply for student loans and scholarships. I’m not sure how much cost those will cover, but I’m sure my parents will help me pay the tuition as well.

I have a 1460/1520 for PSAT, but I don’t think my index score is high enough to qualify for national merit scholarships.

Speaking of building a college list, aside from the general acceptance rate into specific programs, what else can I look at to get an idea of how hard the admission is? I’m not sure how to determine what schools are safety/reach for me.

Also, besides getting good grades in school, should I do some passion projects to showcase my interest in CS? And what should I do? Thanks!

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Thanks for the information!

I just have one more question: you said that IT is more of a course of study than an actual major, so if say I’m interested in coding and technology in general, what college majors are there other than CS that might be easier?

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The best financial aid comes directly from the colleges. MIT and Columbia don’t give a dime of merit aid, and I am quite sure that IF CMU does, it is highly competitive.

Re: loans. In your name for freshman year, your loan limit is $5500. Period. Anything above that will either need to be taken out by your parents OR cosigned by them. If you are Questbridge eligible, are your parents qualified loan borrowers? And will they be for four years?

Or are you counting on getting excellent need based aid at one of these colleges (which might be possible…have you run the Net Price Calculators for an estimate of your net costs?)

You need to do things that are of interest to you…not things that you think will capture the eye of some adcom in the future.

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First of all, I have worked in high tech for my entire career. I started off as a software engineer (with a degree in mathematics, but having taken multiple CS courses), and gradually shifted to other related tasks. I have worked closely with software engineers for decades.

In high tech, the “prestige” of whatever school you graduated from really doesn’t matter. MIT graduates and Stanford graduates routinely work alongside graduates from U.Mass Amherst, Rutgers, any of the SUNY’s, San Jose State, UNH, and a very long list of other universities (definitely including many universities outside of the US) and in most cases no one cares or even knows where anyone else got their degree. In an earlier thread a few years back I mentioned a very, very tough problem that completely stumped two MIT graduates but then was solved by a U.Mass graduate. The U.Mass graduate would have been a top expert in his field regardless of which university he had graduated from (he is also a very nice guy, I know him pretty well).

People will care that you are reasonable to work with and your software is relatively bug free. They won’t care where you got your degree.

CMU, MIT, and Stanford are indeed top CS programs. MIT also has a major “Mathematics with Computer Science” (course 18C) which combines what I might describe as the two greatest and most interesting majors that could possibly exist (my opinion here might not be universally held by others).

You are from New York, and it sounds like you may have a limited budget. Some of the SUNY’s are excellent for CS. Given your superb stats I would expect that you are very likely to be admitted to your choice of the SUNY’s and merit aid might be possible (in addition to in-state tuition).

You are competitive for the top programs. However, admissions to top programs such as MIT, Stanford, and CMU is very difficult to predict. UC Berkeley is also well ranked for CS, but you will not be able to afford it as an out of state student. Also if you attend a university at this level you are going to be surrounded by other students who are just as strong as you are. This has both plusses and minuses. Mostly at the top schools you need to be willing to work very hard for four years to earn your degree.

Looking at your stats, you are a very strong student. Your grades are perfect. Your SAT score is superb. All of this suggests that you are likely to do very well as a CS student. You will most likely find that there are some late evenings where you are trying to debug your code. One little bug can be frustrating, and particularly at first can be hard to spot. However, you will figure this out just like every other strong CS student figures it out.

I would recommend that you try to limit debt for your bachelor’s degree. This is not quite as critical for a CS student both because there are so many jobs in CS and because you do not need a graduate degree if you have a bachelor’s degree in CS. However, given your excellent stats and in-state status in New York I think that you should be able to at least limit the debt that you take on to the federally subsidized amounts (which I believe is $5,500 the first year). If you can avoid debt that would be even better.

In most cases the Ivy League schools are not the highest ranked for CS. However, they do have very good need based financial aid and are perfectly okay for CS. Between Harvard, Columbia, and one of the SUNY’s, if accepted to all of them I might be tempted to pick whichever one is least expensive, or whichever you just want to attend if they are equal in cost.

As others have mentioned, some top universities such as MIT and Harvard and Stanford for undergraduate students coming out of high school do not admit by major. If you are admitted, then you get to pick your major (typically at the end of your freshman year). Some other schools (possibly including SUNYs, CMU, and U.Mass although I am not sure about these) do admit by major. CS is typically a harder major to get accepted to if a school admits by major. However, you are an exceptionally competitive applicant, and there are a LOT of universities that are very good for CS. I am very confident that you will be able to get admitted to multiple very good CS programs. The main trick will be finding a school that is affordable and that is a good fit for you, and I think that you will be able to do this particularly if you keep “affordability” and “fit” in mind from day 1 as you are considering which schools to apply to.

In terms of ECs, I think that you should do whatever is right for you. You are already doing very well in this regard, and I do not think that there is anything that you need to change or add.

I think that you are going to do very well as a CS major.

Best wishes.

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IT/IS is usually focused more on managing computers, software, and networks (as opposed to designing and developing them and pushing the boundaries of theoretical foundations in computing). The level of technical depth varies across programs, and can range from almost as much as a CS major down to a very basic level below frosh-level CS courses within a mostly business curriculum.

Not all colleges are hypercompetitive to get admitted to the CS major (although CMU is). Many moderately selective colleges are not especially competitive to get into the CS major, since it is commonly perceived as “hard”. As a NYC resident, you may want to check your SUNY and CUNY options for suitability of their CS majors, admission accessibility, and net cost.

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Three thoughts and some examples below

  1. Suggest less focus on “top” programs or more balance at least. These rankings are largely about the graduate degrees and less the undergrads. Yes, the top schools attract attention and recruiters, true, but these are not the only places that do. Colleges around DC get a lot of attention by Amazon because they are nearby in NoVa. RPI gets all sort of companies on campus just because there is a great student pool often with creative majors. So, think broader.

  2. it’s true many schools do not do direct enrollment to a major but many do enroll by college. I’m not sure I agree about focusing on schools that don’t do direct admit. Instead, Id say apply BOTH to schools that don’t do direct admit but also to schools that apply to the college but not the major (eg CIS College at Pitt) and direct to the college and limited-enrollment programs (eg CS LEP program at UMd). Why? if you get into those colleges/programs it’s easier to switch out if you don’t like CS, but can be hard to switch in.

  3. Agree with above that IT/MIS is more focused on data structures, data systems, and networks and CS on general software development. But there are also some more recent CS variants/concentrations that might be interesting. Some, like the data fields may even have a separate major that overlaps only in part with CS. Other times it’s within the CS major.

  • CS + business/entrepreneurship (example:
    Lehigh)

  • cybersecurity (all over)

  • Machine learning and AI (Examples, Pitt, NJIT, Stevens)

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Both my spouse and I have undergrad CS degrees (among a couple others) and have worked in software or adjacent. My spouse is high in the corporate ladder of an east coast software company right now. We also have a kid that just graduated with a CS degree. Just a few thoughts from that angle.

I really think you can be absolutely fine at many programs. You sound really anxious here to get into one of these very competitive programs. I definitely wouldn’t assume the program at your state flagship is going to be “easy” or not prepare you well. CS programs adjacent to ABET engineering programs tend to be very rigorous. I worked for one employer that quietly favored these types of BS CS grads out of state flagships. If you go look at the list of best CS undergrad programs from a variety of sources, there are no shortage of flagships in the mix, including Stony Brook. Some programs are hard to get into on the front end (CMU, MIT, etc). Some may be easier for admissions, but will have attrition as you get into harder course work. A huge number of students change path. Which is fine of course. You sound very well prepared for CS or whatever you chose. And it’s ok to change your mind.

Since you are low income, taking advantage of the questbridge process is a fantastic idea assuming you qualify. Definitely fill all the college slots after verifying these schools will work for you. You are qualified for any school, IMO. But so are many students who don’t attend any of the schools you mentioned. You also have a fantastic, likely highly affordable option in NY with Stony Brook which will have no shortage of motivated, high stat students like yourself. There’s no predicting what will happen in admissions from year to year.

So I have a kid that just graduated with a BS CS degree (he actually graduated w/2 degrees but the other is not STEM related). For financial reasons he ended up at a state flagship and graduated debt free. He was very high stat and had deep ECs, much like you. He tackled his job search on his own because he was interested in certain locations. He got a 6 figure offer at a company with a 1-2% hiring rate sitting next to a Cornell grad. Follow the money. Your path will be more about you than the name of your school.

And as an aside, you will not be able to take out large loans on your own. Maybe with your family sit down with some net price calculators and make sure schools will be affordable before applying. Schools define need in different ways. You can also get a sense of demographics and aid looking at common data sets. Like MIT gives about 60% of their student body aid and CMU gives about 40% financial aid. CMU has a pretty wealthy student body even though both these schools “meet need”.
These schools know how to admit to hit a bottom line.

I am sure you will have many excellent options with your academics and ECs. Good luck.

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Generally that makes sense. Hopefully OP stays engaged as they apply next September!

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The ways that various schools handle entry to the CS major:

  1. Direct admission to the CS major during frosh admission. Usually, there is little available space for those changing into the major after enrollment. Apply as a CS major at these schools.
  2. Admission by division (e.g. College of Engineering, College of Computing, College of Arts and Sciences) but not directly to the CS (or other) major. Apply to the division with the CS major at these schools.
  3. Admission to the school overall as an undeclared student.

However, note that in cases 2 and 3 above, entry to the CS major after enrolling could be:

  • Automatic if you pass the prerequisite courses with C grades and 2.0 college GPA.
  • Automatic if you pass the prerequisite courses with grades or college GPA higher than C and 2.0 (some may be quite high, like 3.75).
  • Competitive admission, either overall, or for those who do not meet an automatic admission college GPA. In some cases, this can be very competitive. (This is also likely to be the case in case 1 above if you enroll without direct admission tot he CS major.)
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I work in computers and I can tell you that prestige doesn’t matter. CS focuses more on the hardware and the mathematical side of programming. IT focuses mainly on the practical business side of programming and maintenance. They’re just different specialties. In fact, most CS graduates end-up in IT jobs where they spend an entire career never looking at a math problem.

Regarding schools, the tech world is ridiculously employable, and prestige doesn’t matter. I graduated from a non-prestigious “regional” state university. I’ve interviewed at Google, Amazon, as well as many fortune 500 companies. They’re overrated in my opinion.

My advice, don’t worry about all the tech stuff right now. By the time you get into college, all that stuff you learned will be outdated. Just focus on your grades and SAT.

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I woke this morning to my coolguy alarm prodding me post my counter on the CS - IT question.

When it comes to CS versus IT it really comes down to what you want to do and the flexibility you want to have in your career. A quick search will give you the basic differences:

“Though there are many overlaps between computer science and IT, computer science work generally means designing and building computers and computer programs. IT work deals more with running the computers of an organization, and making sure the related networks, systems, and security are operational.” (from coursera.org).

There is ongoing debate surrounding the value of attending “prestige” universities and I fall in the camp of it does matter, but not for the reasons that most think. In CS, most of the “prestige” schools are those that also have the deepest and widest course offerings and the research opportunities that many students (and employers) find attractive. I suggest you look at some CS jobs descriptions and notice how many seek applicants with advanced degrees and published papers. Granted, this is only for a subset of all the CS jobs, but if that is the area where you want to be some day, selecting your college appropriately is important.

Is it competitive to get accepted into the schools you mentioned? Yes. But, your qualifications make you a competitive applicant too! Will many other applicants have more “programming” experience? Maybe, but my son told me of a student with absolutely no CS background that took CS106 at Stanford because just about every student takes it as an experience. She was so good in the class that she won the “design an application” competition and switched her major to CS.

On math. I highly recommend taking as much math as you can if you do opt to go for CS. It will only make things easier for you especially in certain CS specialties like Machine Learning and AI. While many CS graduates may not use math after graduation, many others do. Our son uses math daily in job and loves what he does. Since he has been employed (2 years) he has also published 2 more papers and has recently submitted a third for an upcoming conference.

So, in a nutshell – think about what you like to do – choose a school that will offer you depth and breadth in your area of interest – and do not worry about what others know, have confidence in what you can learn.

Best wishes.

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Thank you all for the invaluable insights and advice. I’ll take all of them into considerations and keep working hard!

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