How important is ABET certification? (looking at LACs for son and worrying about our list)

College Search & Lists
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Hi folks,

My son continues to evolve his thinking about what he might want to do in college and beyond. He recently admitted that although he’s typically found history more interesting than a lot of other classes, it’s also the class in which he most consistently fails to get an A…while math and physics have come easily to him. “I should probably plan on majoring in some kind of STEM field.”

He has also decided to join his friends in the robotics club, albeit not until senior year (because apparently joining halfway through the year is not done and no amount of gentle nudging seems to move the needle on this one. face-palm)

Given that he still doesn’t know whether he’d be interested in engineering (again, kinda late to the ballgame here but this is us), I’m wondering if I need to reconfigure our list to either
a) include some schools with engineering (ABET-certified or not) so that he has a choice next spring when he’s more aware of how much he enjoys engineering or
b) eliminate any schools from consideration that don’t offer engineering.
At a minimum this up-ends the strategy of applying ED to a place like Vassar/Wesleyan/Bates, right?

Question: how important is ABET certification for engineering programs? I noticed that Brandeis offers some kind of engineering and they are on track to develop an ABET-certified engineering degree for '26-'27 (buy Brandeis stock now!) – but for DS25 that’s gonna be a little late.

Why does one need to have a degree from an ABET-certified program? in which cases would it matter? where would it not matter?

(FWIW, my husband trained as a physicist and has become a hardware/network engineer through various career moves. Another friend has a PhD in Applied Physics and moved straight into hardware engineering. Is this uncommon?)

I guess now I should research a bunch of engineering options more seriously (Pitt, WPI, etc.). Still think a small-school environment is going to be best for our son. Hit me with your recommendations.

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In some cases it matters a lot, and it other it matters not a whit. I know this doesn’t help you.

There are companies and organizations (let’s call it a state’s department of infrastructure) that won’t hire kids out of non-ABET programs. If you’re overseeing the design of bridges, tunnels, or reconstructing a port, ABET certification of the various engineering disciplines is an easy first cut of “qualified vs. non qualified”. If you are a huge global company with project managers all over the world certifying design, materials, process, etc. for massive builds (new airport?) your HR team does not have time to research every single program and evaluate every single transcript. So you set a standard- minimum GPA of X from an ABET certified program, and you get on with it.

If you’re an engineer who ends up on Wall Street doing high speed trading or working in sales for a medical device/imaging company then it doesn’t matter. The companies aren’t hiring for engineering horsepower and an established curriculum- they’re hiring for problem-solving skills and the ability to explain a highly technical product to a non-technical audience.

I’d throw this back to your son. He can contact 5 kids from his HS who have studied engineering and are recent college grads, and ask to spend 15 minutes on the phone with them discussing their college experience, their work experience, etc. I think he’s likely to stay on the sidelines (maybe engineering? maybe not?) until HE gets invested in the research. You’ve done enough of the legwork- turn it over to him.

In the years that I worked in Aerospace as a recruiter, we only hired from ABET programs, even for roles (like the aforementioned sales roles, and for strategy, business development, etc.) because it became too costly to send recruiting teams to so many places. If you had a core school strategy of 15 schools where you could cover off your geographic needs, AND cover your functional needs (engineers, sales, bus dev, customer support/procurement, etc.) it made everything easier.

Now with Zoom I don’t think cost as much of a concern. You find a kid from a non-ABET program interested in your financial rotation (which does not require ABET), then you can interview without putting your team on a plane to god-knows-where.

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  1. You gotta want and love engineering to study engineering. Now it’s possible he’ll love it - but if he’s delaying getting into Robotics, maybe he won’t. Maybe send him to something like Purdue STEP this summer (if still open and he qualifies) or another short program - to see - is it something he likes. But you have to love it because the study hours, the life you live - not easy.

  2. If he enjoys social sciences - he may get a B vs. an A - but he enjoys it - and that has to mean something.

  3. Many schools will be strong in both STEM and social science - but if you want LACs, it makes it a bit tougher.

  4. I’m not a fan of on track to get ABET and you’ll all get credit- for it later.

  5. To do engineering, you’ll need to start in engineering. Typically easy to transfer out of, but not into.

How important is ABET? Likely depends on the major. There are some jobs that require it but do they really check? There are schools that purposely don’t have it - like W&L. There’s another chat about UC Berkeley and Electrical and they don’t have and they’re very high rated and my guess is do great on jobs.

Ultimately, your student should be involved in the research of school selection as well.

But many many many schools have engineering - so I’d start with the size you want - PItt and WPI are different and WPI might not scratch the social science itch.

In the end, you have to want it - especially engineering. It’s not just - well I’m good at math and science.

High School is easy relatively - college isn’t. You need the drive and passion.

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Companies don’t need to check. If their policy is not to hire out of programs which are not ABET certified, why check? Your recruiting team already knows where they are focusing their time and attention- on the ABET programs.

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Hate to further torment a long deceased equine, but STEM is Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math, and the great majority of Liberal Arts Colleges are excellent at Science and Math.

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Some of the schools on your list (from your other thread), Union, Lehigh and Lafayette, all have ABET accredited engineering.

A school like Case Western would also fit the bill.

Editing to add Bucknell to the list to research.

As already noted, some engineering disciplines like civil and mechanical typically require ABET certified grads. For others, like EE or ECE, it’s less important.

IMO, if engineering is on the table, I’d scrap schools without it.

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Another thing to consider about engineering and ABET is what happens if he decides (or it is decided for him) that he wants to move from a type of engineering is not important to one that it is important. An example would be moving from computer to civil engineering.

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my understanding is that accreditation is back-dated to the first enrollees - some risk they don’t get accredited (though with a school like Brandeis that seems little to me?) so it should be fine for your kid.

DO check that before committing, but I have read that in the past…(when you think about it, it makes sense, if they didn’t do this they’d never get any students in teh door!)

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Yes - but not every company has an in depth or thorough recruiting service. I mean, I would assume if they require it, they would check. I’m just saying - who truly knows.

There’s an interesting discussion about that taking place right now on UC Berkeley who dropped ABET in certain disciplines.

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Talking specifically to their engineering question. Sorry. Should have said Engineering.

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Agree for some things it matters a TON, but for many not at all.

Also, Trinity (CT) has abet-accredited program(s).

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So the schools we currently have on our list that happen to be ABET-certified (w/ the exception of Lafayette) + some of those mentioned (e.g. Trinity, Bucknell, Lehigh) are places where I’m slightly concerned about cultural fit (frat life/bro culture reputedly more dominant.)

I would love to see him land somewhere like WashU or Harvey Mudd (which he was actually quite intrigued by) but those would be extreme longshots for this one.

I like the suggestion of finding a summer program that would help him with the discernment process.

@blossom I wish he were the kind of kid who was comfortable calling up kids he doesn’t know and asking about their experiences. But he’s not. Not yet. I was never shy and seem to consistently overestimate the impact of intense shyness on one’s whole existence (e.g. he recently got braces – again, we’re late around here – and so he’s basically stopped eating lunch at school because someone might notice him eating with braces. I’m truly wondering if not having enough calories to perform in his afternoon classes will compromise his grades and thus his portfolio of options – but as @tsbna44 will surely remind me, there’s always 'Bama. Roll Tide!)

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If a STEM focused school like Harvey Mudd would be in consideration, what about Rose Hulman?

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Worth a look. I think WPI is a more likely fit (based on the experience of a friend’s kid who is a current student at Rose Hulman). I’m also adding U. Rochester and Brandeis back to the short list.

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I do appreciate this point. I am absolutely enabling this to some degree. I’m also gambling on the hope that our February trip (in which we visit 8-9 schools in as many days) will motivate him and give him more clarity about what he wants and doesn’t want. He’s a slow starter, this one. And for what it’s worth, when I check in with his friends’ parents, many of them are equally lackadaisical. I think that’s part of the challenge – the boys in his crowd aren’t really talking about this stuff yet. They’re mostly focused on helping each other with physics.

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It really seems to vary across schools. When I look at the top three majors in various LACs, some schools have a bunch of STEM majors (e.g. Grinnell, Carleton, Hamilton, Union), some seem more social science focused (Clark), some seem pre-professional, with a lot of business and/or pre-med-type majors (Rhodes, Denison), and some are a blend of humanities and social sciences (econ, polesci, and psych feature heavily in the top three in most schools).

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Speaking of ABET certification, I think a few years back Stanford almost lost theirs. A friend’s father (the same one who likened paying full tuition at a private school to driving a brand new Cadillac off a cliff every year) was one of the reviewers and he was positively gleeful at the prospect of being in charge of visiting/vetting high and mighty Stanford. I gather in the end they managed to dott/cross the proverbial letters and get re-certified. But I guess it made me a little skeptical of the process (Stanford being no slouch in the engineering department.)

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Just to take a step back, I think the cold reality is it is very hard to only have one foot into Engineering by the time you start college. Even if a college has both Engineering and not, you typically have to start 100% in Engineering, and then if it doesn’t work out (and it often doesn’t) maybe swap into something else. There are always exceptions involving people who come later to Engineering, but it is just so hard I would not put a lot of weight on that (and you can figure it out if so).

And while there are many great colleges where you can start in Engineering but then swap out into something else pretty freely, there are not a lot of SLACs specifically like that. It makes sense, because these are small schools, and engineering has a lot of requirements where economies of scale will naturally occur. So, you get some SLACs that are really focused on engineering, to get to sufficient scale, but that is not great if you decide you want to switch.

And yes, even the exceptions tend to be in a certain vibe range, not necessarily what a lot of kids want in a SLAC. I think for women, Smith is an interesting option. Swarthmore maybe for men and women. But then Trinity, Bucknell, Union, Lafayette, Washington & Lee . . . they could be just fine for some kids, but not necessarily all kids with a SLAC interest.

But once you get to like medium-sized universities, then it is much more common. And then it is really common among large public universities.

So, as we make choices in life, paths do close, as others open. No college can truly be all things to all people, any college choice is choosing some set of paths and not others. And I do think at some point before enrolling, and possibly before applying, your son may need to make a choice with consequences.

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This is normal - btw - but I do have pause with - it seems like he’s forcing himself into engineering or sciences because he’s good at it - but it’s not an interest.

In that regard, schools that are science based vs. broad - are taking a huge risk. Not just for school (which he likely wouldn’t do well in) - but in life because he’d be mis cast vs. his interests.

Hence the suggestion of STEP at Purdue and there’s likely many others (I just don’t know what they are) . It’s precisely the reason we sent my son - he went from astrophysics, to professional pilot, to atmospheric science to MechE. So all in a similar vein but…your son appears to have other interests - so if he is going to pursue this route, then you’d want some validation. And for my son, that week at Purdue gave validation.

There’s lots of great schools - the one you mentioned that I’d say is for cost. If that’s not an issue or the area of country or size you want or what not isn’t an interest - but there are a ziilion large publics - you mentioned Pitt - a bit smaller and more urban - but yes, it covers all bases.

Sorry again - I misused the acronym STEM - I should have noted I meant engineering.

If it’s a possibility, go to a school with engineering but" I get easy As in math and science" is not a reason to pursue the major - is my point. Indifference is not a good thing - and give nthe difficulty of engineering would likely end in collapse.

I don’t see how WPI could be a good fit…for one, they don’t have a History major. But yes, they do have A&S although they might be more on the techy type side - or I’d at least look into that.

Sounds like you have a student who doesn’t know what they want in life - and for that, keep options open is better. So either an LAC with engineering or a mid size (like a UAH, Marshall, TN Chatt) or medium / larger public/privates in the area of the country where your student desires.

He’s 16 - he doesn’t need to know!!!

And he’ll learn a lot in the next year - and beyond.

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a) I thought we’d agreed to retire SLAC in favor of a less obvious acronym? :wink:
b) Totally agree about needing to start in engineering. I wish we had another year…trying to assess what experiences would help him discern whether indeed to jump in with both feet (as one would need to do) or eliminate that path altogether from this choose-your-own-adventure book that he’s writing. (again, this could be where a well-designed gap year would not be a terrible idea.)
c) Yes, in essence, he’ll be choosing between the trade-off of an intimate/nurturing school environment vs. a place where anything is possible but to make it happen he’d have to leave his dorm room without his roommate and put himself out there. I do think the crunchy parts of decision-making (where there are tradeoffs everywhere and we can’t know what we don’t know) make life interesting. Certainty (about the things that matter) is often elusive. But we forge ahead.

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