I believe that Stanford has two ABET accredited engineering majors (Civil and Mech E). Everything else is non-accredited, apparently by choice.
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This is very much true. This is one of the reasons I like looking at per capita PhD feeder lists. Even if you don’t intend to do a PhD, it gives you some idea of which SLACs are actually really serious about which fields. But you can get some of that by looking at NCES College Navigator as well.
To be honest, I had no idea at his age either.
I think at that point I was still talking about becoming a professional violinist. (LOL) Later, with one year as an exchange student under my belt, I decided that “international relations” was the thing I should consider wanting to do. Because, you know, I was good at languages.
The main thing is that I thought I knew, or thought I knew I was supposed to know, or something, and I was good enough at BSing to soldier through my two college applications. Are kids these days truly that much more sophisticated and self-aware? Or do they just learn how to sound as though they are?
None of the things that I’ve actually done professionally were even on my radar in college, let alone high school. In most cases I don’t find that my humanities degree helped or hurt me – but I do appreciate the doors that the brand name of my school have opened for me (people make assumptions about basic intelligence) and I did learn how to write papers, structure arguments, etc. (In hindsight, I wish I’d discovered social sciences earlier but again…not on my radar and I thought I was bad at math).
TLDR: I’m not surprised my son doesn’t know what he wants to do, and if he’s STEM-curious but also still toying with humanities, I’m still slightly biased in the direction of a strong LAC environment for him.
Also? college is wasted on the young.
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I have only been emboldened, particularly when the S part is really relevant.
Anyway, I truly do believe most people are way more adaptive than they give themselves credit for in advance. On the positive side, I think that means some people will find ways of thriving in many different types of college. On the less positive side, some people will find a way to make virtually any college into another unhealthy environment for them (adaptation not always being for the good).
I do think nonetheless there is a lot of value in thinking through things carefully and making your best guess, but then . . . life will keep happening, and that is fine.
I would have SUCH a great time . . . oh well.
You are not alone here.
Too much pressure on kids today. Life will work out as it will, as it has for you and I.
I was going to be a sportscaster. Now I sell cars.
Have an MBA. But at 21, if you asked, I’d have said law school. …
It’s ok to not know. It’s not ok IMHO to have a major forced on you and that’s happening too much - half the CS kids probably.
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Here’s an idea: Do the One Course Summer Institute at Cornell College (the one-course-at-a-time LAC, not the Ivy League university.) It lasts like 2 1/2 weeks, and there is one in engineering (Cornell College has an ABET-accredited general engineering major.) Low stakes way of seeing what a LAC is like and seeing what engineering might be like.
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I think the generalities of LAC being “nurturing” and big schools not - are often misstated.
Often it’s up to the kid. We see many stories with LAC kids struggling socially, advising and other wise and many with the big “bureaucracies” fulfilling the thought you have about LACs.
It’s not so black and white - and so much of it depends on the kid. Many that struggle socially - that are isolated, etc - it’s going to be the same no matter where they are. You have to be lucky to find that best friend or your tribe - it could happen at Colgate but not Hamilton or at Kalamazoo but not Vassar or at…for your pleasure - Bama but not Uconn or vice versa.
But don’t forget most big schools do have Honors and many have “sub honors” programs - whether it’s like my daughter’s at College of Charleston (they have the Fellows as s very small cohort of Honors) or Bama with Blount and Randall Research and countless other schools. So you find those - with the Living Learning Communities or special programs - and maybe you can get a hybrid effect.
But I don’t think an LAC assures what you are saying or a larger school defies what you are hoping for.
It’s just not that easy…and the kid has got to play their part in making it all work.
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It is specifically important if the engineer wants to get a Professional Engineer license to be able to sign off on designs used by the general public (like buildings, bridges, roads, etc.), or take the patent exam. It is therefore highly important for civil engineering, but varies in other kinds of engineering, often depending on specialty within the kind of engineering.
But note that when one wants to work as an engineer, ABET accreditation does indicate that the program meets a relatively high minimum standard.
However, someone who wants some engineering knowledge going into a career in finance would not need an ABET accredited program (this seems to be the audience of WLU, Brown AB, and Dartmouth AB programs, though the latter two also offer ABET accredited programs).
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Yeah, I get this. I’m oversimplifying (and yet it’s fun to tease you about 'Bama. Bama? Bama. Word became a sound.)
thanks – this is helpful to understand.
EECS specifically, where the great majority of students focus on CS, and the EE side probably has few or none into large power systems and the like where PE licensing is desired.
Stanford recently dropped ABET accreditation in some majors (but retained it for civil and mechanical engineering).
This is what happened with my S after we toured about 15 LACs. None of which had engineering. (His favorite non engineering LACs were Wesleyan, Vassar, Kenyon, Bates, Bowdoin, Carleton. We never made it to visit Harvey Mudd so he didn’t really consider it.) So we added to the list Lafayette (attending), Bucknell, WPI, Tufts, Lehigh, and Union. We never did visit Union but they offer good merit. He preferred the vibes of Tufts, WPI and Laf the most. Not a frat or sports kid, as we discussed on pm!
He chose an engineering major at Laf which is new and therefore not ABET accredited, but the first grads were in 2023 so they are applying for accreditation right now. I assume they will get it, but if not, I am following this conversation to see if it matters!
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It’s a signal of “quality”. The program has to provide a specific level of instruction and support. Newer programs take a number of years to obtain this accreditation, quite frankly, because they don’t have sufficient resources (qualified full-time faculty, equipment and facilities, and established teaching practices) to meet the standards. See the criterion here: https://www.abet.org/accreditation/accreditation-criteria/criteria-for-accrediting-engineering-programs-2022-2023/
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Okay, so this isn’t totally insane (for him to be considering engineering this late in the game). your list of LACs looks similar to ours. I think Tufts was lurking in the back of my mind as a possibility but honestly, like WashU, I think it’s probably too much of a stretch.
Question: did he apply to the engineering school or had he not self-sorted at that point? He ED’d to Lafayette, right?
Of course not.
But it’s insane for a kid to force themselves into it if it’s not for them.
Find a program for this summer.
This is a good one if still avail.
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He said in his application what major he wanted, but I think it is considered undeclared still. I think for most of these schools, they don’t have multiple colleges so you don’t have to apply any different way. Yes he decided to ED to Lafayette in the end after he interviewed. He felt he was “supposed” to want Tufts more because Boston and more “prestige” but he was correct that his chances were good at Laf and after the interview with the AO, felt it offered the same things he wanted from Tufts. I believe WPI was in the running as the next choice if he had gotten to the RD apps.
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This was the program my S wanted to do (heard about it here!). Applied, got the teacher rec and everything. It was cancelled for Covid, summer 2022, I think because they get international applicants and they could not guarantee covid housing for them or something. It looked really good. My S ended up doing a weeklong program at U of Kansas which he liked and which helped cement his initial interest in engineering.
Other summer engineering programs he looked at were at Cal Poly SLO and U of I Urbana Champaign. Michigan state or U of Michigan also has one but it might be longer.
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My S23 originally thought he would be an Econ or business major. He was planning to take AP Music Theory instead of a senior science class, but ended up in AP Physics C (I think purely because of a schedule conflict). He was lucky to have a GREAT teacher and liked Physics so much that he decided at the last minute to apply to engineering programs. He did not have any engineering related ECs, but the admissions process worked out well for him anyway. He’s now a very happy first year engineering student.
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I agree with the advice to find a summer engineering program to see how interested he really is in the idea. Also, I’d see about swapping some schools out on your planned tour for some others. These are some small to mid-sized schools in some of the states that you’ll be traveling through:
Minnesota
- U. of St. Thomas: About 5900 undergrads and ABET-accredited for civil, electrical, mechanical, and computer engineering. Located in Saint Paul and @fiftyfifty1 speaks well of it.
Ohio
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Case Western: They like demonstrated interest and would be a good match for your kid, I think. ABET-accredited for aerospace, biomedical, civil, computer, electrical, mechanical, and other areas. About 6k undergrads.
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Ohio Northern: About 2600 undergrads and ABET-accredited in CS, electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, and engineering education.
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U. of Mount Union: About 1900 undergrads and ABET-accredited in biomedical, civil, computer, and mechanical engineering.
Pennsylvania
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Penn State Erie (Behrend College): About 3200 undergrads and this is a residential campus where many/most students stay at this location all 4 years rather than switching to University Park after two years. ABET-accredited in computer, electrical, industrial, mechanical, and software engineering as well as in a couple other areas.
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Villanova: About 7k undergrads and ABET-accredited in chemical, computer, electrical, civil, and mechanical engineering.
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Wilkes: About 2k undergrads and ABET-accredited in electrical, environmental, and mechanical engineering.
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York: About 3300 undergrads and ABET-accredited in civil, computer, electrical, and mechanical engineering.
New Jersey
- The College of New Jersey: About 7k undergrads and ABET-accredited in biomedical, civil, computer, electrical, and mechanical engineering as well as a couple of other areas.
And though it’s not en-route for your trip since you’re flying from Minnesota to Ohio, I’d strongly recommend looking at Marquette. It’s mid-sized (about 7500 undergrads), but I think it’d have a lot of the things your son is interested in.
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