True, Dartmouth students don’t have to leave their own campus, but it’s still a dual degree program that may take 5 years to complete, whether you’re a Dartmouth student or a student from a partnership college. The point is that all of these students may possibly be, in @blossom 's words, “unintentional” engineering majors (back in the day we would call them “late-bloomers”.)
Your euphemism beats mine!
Looking at this thread and your previous one… your son seems to have a wide variety of strengths and interests; and that can make it really hard to narrow down what to pursue. I would hesitate to write off a college history major based on outcomes in high school history classes; the college-level study of history is often a much different experience! But… the college-level version involves a lot of writing, so your observation that he “hates to write” is a major consideration. It depends what that means. There are successful, professional writers who say they hate to write, just as there are successful engineering students and engineers who say they hate to do math. But there has to be some aspect that you love enough to commit to the part you hate! Is there a glimmer of something he particularly loves, on the STEM side of things? Is he more into theory, or more of a practical problem-solver, or a designer (you mentioned architecture - would industrial/product design also be a possibility?) or a maker/tinkerer?
I didn’t realize that Cornell College had an ABET-accredited general engineering major - that’s very interesting! I’m sure they can’t possibly have the level of facilities and the depth in specific disciplines that’s available at larger engineering schools, but if the block plan and LAC environment are attractive, that could be a way to get all of that and still have a path forward in engineering, without relying on a 3:2 pathway (which as others have said, has a low rate of follow-through for many reasons).
Given his interest in languages and study abroad, another dual-degree option could be an International Engineering program. These are 5-year programs where you graduate with an engineering degree and a BA in the target language/culture. The fourth year is spent abroad, usually half in traditional classes and the other half in an internship. Students often end up with great job offers from international firms that value their cross-cultural experience.
U of Tulsa might be worth a look. It’s on the smaller side (around 2600 undergrads). More than 25% of the student body is comprised of national merit semifinalists (which the school recruits with big merit) and another >10% are international students. Only about half are from Oklahoma, so lots of geographic diversity, and racial/economic diversity are decent too. TU’s International Engineering/Science program is unique in that it includes non-engineering STEM majors also; most such programs do not: Program: International Engineering/Science and Language Program - University of Tulsa - Acalog ACMS™ The Engineering Physics major could be worth a look; students choose an engineering emphasis within the major (electrical, mechanical, or bioengineering), and it’s possible to pivot either to one of those engineering disciplines, or to non-engineering physics; but the Engineering Physics degree is ABET-accredited, and can lead to a career and/or graduate study in engineering or physics. (There are other schools with this major as well, including CWRU.) East Coast schools with International Engineering dual-degree programs include URI and UConn (both smaller flagships).
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If your son is interested in LACs, he should apply to LACs. If he loves history, but not math and science, why can’t he study history?
I don’t feel students should think “I’m good at math, so I guess I’d better study something to do with math, even though it bores me.” Being good at math ≠ having to major in engineering.
As ever, I enjoy using my kids as examples. They are out of college now, one in ‘20, the other in ‘23. Both excel at math. D majored in a popular subject, but not math or physics. She is so good at stats that she was hired just for that aspect of her skills, even though that is not where her main interest lies. She has been very successful in job offers. S earned a BSc in Econ. He is a people person and his education gave him knowledge that is relevant to his current job, but he doesn’t really utilize the “technical skills” he acquired with his degree.
As a non-mathy person, I can’t imagine being at a college which is heavily focused on STEM. Okay, if he can get into Harvey Mudd (for example) he can take classes at other Claremont colleges, but why apply there in the first place if he isn’t really interested in the STEM-y environment? I see no point in him applying to a college that offers engineering, “just in case.”
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Yeah, being good at math, but not necessarily passionate about math, can be a great distinguisher in a field not known for attracting mathy people.
Like, I think litigators who are actually good at math can often get plum assignments, doing relatively fun stuff like working with experts. That sort of thing.
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Kids often think they know what engineering is until they start.
Yes, there’s the blowing stuff up part which is super fun. Creating boats out of trash and other stuff from the recycling bin and racing them down the local river. Baking brownies in a home made oven powered by the sun and the components of an old flashlight. Creating a robotic waiter who serves steaming hot coffee from a “kluged” pot. Etc.
But the theoretical underpinnings of these fantastic labs- the calculations-- how does a building made of toothpicks and marshmallows stand up and hold a 10 lb. weight without falling down (and show your work-- the math-- even if you get the right answer) is often less appealing.
So I understand why a HS kid who is good at math thinks “hey engineering, why not?” but I think that kid also needs to be at a place with multiple off-ramps into other disciplines if it turns out not to be what he thinks it is.
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College history is almost all writing. Even if the course ends in an exam rather than a paper, that exam is almost always writing. My daughter just wrote a thesis (masters) that was 170 pages.
Of course, my daughter who hates writing is the engineer, and she complains that all she does is write reports. Now that writing isn’t flowery or engaging, just the facts. And she still hates it.
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Seems to me if a Dart student stays an extra year at Dart and gets the second undergrad degree (after they have already earned the first one) and there is no way of getting a 4 year undergrad engineering degree, they really aren’t a “late bloomer”. Just getting that second (engineering) degree when it wasn’t available in 4 years, and they chose to earn that additional degree. Maybe they decided late in the game that they wanted to be an engineer, and the only way to get it at Dart is to stay for the 5th year. 
If your kid is a strong student then consider something like the Exploratory Studies program at NC State. That way he can take a few classes and decide. At the end of the day, one cannot expect a 17 year old to have figured everything out. I agree that it would be best to rule out schools that do not have engineering if that is something your child is interested in. There are many schools that offer both and are diverse enough in terms of location, size and feels. Good luck!
I find there is a HUGE push these days for kids who are “good at math” to go into engineering. HS kids are hearing this from their parents, their friends and their friends’ parents (not sure about from teachers, as I think most HS teachers still encourage kids to take their time figuring out who they are and what they want to do in life). Honestly it makes me a bit sad, and I’m the daughter AND daughter-in-law of engineers (EE and Civil).
I have a friend who told her HS daughter (good at math and unsure what she wanted to do in college) “you are going to study engineering” – the daughter had no say in the matter, and was fine with her parent making this decision for her. She only applied to engineering programs, and is a first year now at a UC studying MechE, and luckily seems to be enjoying and doing well in her classes so far. So I guess it’s working out for her so far.
But, the whole thing gives me pause. Is it merely about future job opportunity, or could it be due to living in a culture that also pushes “select/premier” sports by age 10 and competitive everything, whether it’s robotics or debate. It’s exhausting for the generalist, the kid who loves the humanities, as well as for the “late bloomer.”
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We’re going to take the excellent advice of (checks notes) a bunch of people and try to send him to an exploratory engineering summer program. I think right now the game plan is to go visit these colleges that we’re booked to see – figure out from there what he liked and didn’t like and wants to see more of – and then recalibrate if necessary. I’m not sure he’s meant to be an engineer either but as a former humanities person, I suspect college-level writing will not be his thing. I could see him gravitating toward things like archeology or geography or something. He’ll have some options.
(His admissions counselor told him yesterday that he didn’t have a snowball’s chance of getting into Harvey Mudd and although that made me sad, because it was the first school that really put a twinkle in my kid’s eye, I’m sure he’s right and it was a necessary conversation.)
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It is possible for a Dartmouth student to get both degrees in four years. I know people who have done it. Last time I looked (which was a fairly long time ago), the BE required 9 additional courses in engineering (beyond the courses required for the AB) which makes sense because the typical Dartmouth year is 9 courses (3 each trimester), and that’s why the fifth year makes it easy to complete. But students could choose their courses carefully to include those 9 classes in the first four years (didn’t do as much outside of engineering as they might otherwise have done). Dartmouth does have distributive requirements so they would still need to take a foreign language, a non-western class, etc. but you can fit all that in and the dual degree in four years if you are super committed to that and don’t want to take as many courses outside of engineering as you might otherwise. I believe some Dartmouth students also stay just one extra trimester (or 2) instead of a full 3 (3 would be the full 5th year) - just however much they need to make it work.
ETA: Dartmouth students also sometimes overload a 4th course in a trimester which can also help complete both degrees in 4 years if desired.
It’s funny that we’re going so hard in the direction of specializing when my sense is that skilled, adaptive generalists are going to be much better equipped to survive the zombie apocalypse (or whatever actual real tectonic shifts are coming our way.)
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There are so many great summer programs out there. He will at least meet people, I’m sure. But I’m just wondering why an engineering summer program if he isn’t interested in the subject.
Maybe he doesn’t want a writing-heavy major, but there are many classes that will involve writing in college. My son is dyslexic and dysgraphic. He was more than a little disappointed by the amount of writing he had to do because his electives and other core curriculum classes had writing requirements. Many colleges have fairly rigorous writing requirements and your son will probably not be able to escape it, sorry to say.
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Thank you! My sentiments exactly but you said it better.
Note that being good at math can be helpful with statistics that can be significantly helpful in many social sciences. Math is also adjacent to philosophy through logic. There are also areas of the arts that touch on math.
This means that someone good at math but not interested in a major that is “obviously” math based can still find skill at math useful in whatever they do major in.
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That makes better sense that a dart student might only need to stay an extra trimester. Thanks
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Writing to communicate your observations, ideas, and conclusions is important in any subject of school or work, but the style of writing can vary considerably across subjects and whom the intended reader is.
However, entry into engineering majors at NCSU is subject to competitive secondary admission.
My friend’s daughter attended a one week program at Cal Poly before senior year and enjoyed it. Seems low risk and a good learning opportunity.
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