My understanding is that the Dartmouth AB in engineering is conditional upon the completion of the BE. So, a lot depends on when the student decides to complete the engineering prereqs. They may be late-bloomers in that sense.
yeah, that’s one of the ones we’ re looking at, along with the Purdue program. Apparently several of the local robotics kids might be doing the CalPoly thing.
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Yeah, I’ve known a lot of successful engineers over time. And not to be overly reductionist, but I see them as a sort of type of person (with lots of subtypes, of course). For the right type of person, engineering is perfect. For other people, which is most other people, it would be miserable. And the drop out rate in college fits this model.
So I was shocked to learn all these kids were being pushed into engineering majors for what seemed like generic “good job” reasons. No-no-no, this will not work, I immediately thought. If these kids are not engineers, making them major in it isn’t going to turn them into engineers. I just don’t think that is how it works.
Oh well.
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I suspect you’re right. My husband is a born tinkerer/builder/hacker/fixer of all the things. He was an engineer well before college, and his preferred brand of physics was applied. Our son has not shown the same three-dimensional dexterity. As a kid, he was all about reading/drawing/imaginative pursuits. And also always had a weird capitalist/merchant streak in him. So…who knows. I’ll be happy to help him land somewhere where he can thrive.
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Well, if they don’t complete it, they don’t get it, right? It’s all good.
My point all along has been that very few take the 3/2 or equivalent route to an engineering degree
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I see.
Other way around. Students seeking the BE must first do the AB: https://engineering.dartmouth.edu/undergraduate/ab#
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Upon closer inspection, I think that’s correct. However, I can only see that the BE degree is ABET accredited. My hunch is that a majority of Dartmouth kids see it as a package deal.
The thing is, it is always easier to switch away from engineering into something else than to switch into engineering at any stage of the game. (in college, when you get your first job, later in career, etc) So if there is any chance that engineering is what a kid wants, it makes since to pursue that path to begin with.
At my husband’s tech company, they won’t even hire business side people without an undergraduate engineering degree. So having an engineering undergrad can be a starting point for a lot of possibilities, and leave a lot of doors open.
My older son is great at math but there is zero chance he wants to do engineering, and we didn’t encourage it at all for him. S24 is good at math (and science) and is engineering-curious so (after so many discussions!!) we encouraged him to just pursue engineering undergrad and see where it takes him.
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There are lots of kinds of engineering personalities. My kid is NOT a tinkerer at all, so he wasn’t interested in robotics club like some of his friends, didn’t get involved in coding in high school like some other friends, and didn’t see himself as an engineer until Physics class last year. He liked math okay… calculus was fun… but a bit abstract for his tastes. But it turns out that he LOVES applied physics and applied math. He gets excited about math when he can see how it’s related to science, and how that science is related to technology that can be designed and built. And he gets excited about building stuff, if there is beautiful math and science behind it. He is more of an “applied scientist” than a tinkerer-engineer type. Now he has found his passion and is happy as the proverbial clam… he calls me practically every day to tell me about another exciting thing that he learned or did. 
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My husband, a career electrical engineer specializing in power, was never a tinkerer. But he loved to problem solve, and his EE degree (and PE, and job) allowed him wot work with teams to solve power issues and deal with the infrastructure to support power distribution.
Not a tinkerer….at all.
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The AB degree (without continuing to the BE degree) at Dartmouth may be for those who want some engineering knowledge before going to work in traditional Ivy League jobs like Wall Street and management consulting.
Respectfully, I disagree. I’ve seen many students regret starting out in engineering. Often, they felt pressured into it. My understanding is that for many engineering programs, they are proscribed course sequences. There are plenty of students who end up wasting time taking classes they have no interest in because they felt they had to apply as an engineering major, just in case. Then they switch to a different major and end up taking longer to graduate. And of course, it could happen the other way around with kids who decide they do want to major in engineering.
I just think it doesn’t make sense to choose a STEM focused college based on what someone might possibly major in, especially given that the parent says the student isn’t interested in that subject.
I think the student might already know if he is interested. It seems he isn’t. Imagine if we had all chosen a college simply based on what we might eventually, but probably not, want to study. I don’t know about the rest of you, but by the time I was 16 or so, I knew I would never study physics, or math, or chemistry. At various times, I thought I might study English, or psychology, or history, or maybe even art. I knew what was interesting to me, and what wasn’t.
I think this student isn’t interested in studying engineering. I think he is possibly saying he should major in something math or physics related because he thinks his parents think he should study those things.
It might be best for the student to apply to a bigger uni where there are more options. But I also think he should apply to LACs if those speak to him.
One of my best friends had a very stark choice starting as soon as he hit campus his freshmen year: music major or start fulfilling his engineering prerequisites. He chose music (with a specialization in voice) and never looked back. But, I can’t imagine having to make that kind of life-altering decision right out of high school.
Some kids know what they want early… but I think for some kids and young adults it can take a lot longer than age 16-17, and they might be lukewarm on a lot of things for a long time.
But I agree it’s fine to go to a LAC if that’s what the student wants!
He can always transfer to a bigger school if he finds out later that he wants to do a major that isn’t offered at the LAC. That’s what I did as an undergrad and it was fine… And there are lots of good public universities out there that are relatively accessible to transfer students and have a full spectrum of ABET accredited majors.
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It may be easier, but not impossible. Both of my s’s started out in different majors but switched to engineering in their sophomore years and still finished in 4 years (one took another physics class at our local tech U one summer while simultaneously doing an internship!) the mech E one was a computer/ guy and loved building knex stuff, but not sure if that makes him a “tinkerer”. He is more interested in engineering in any capacity that saves the environment. Younger one was neither a tinkerer nor a “save the world” person and went chem e.
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Music and engineering majors tend to have voluminous requirements that do not overlap with each other, so it may be difficult to delay choices that would close off one or both if one wants to graduate in 8 semesters.
They are not the only majors that require starting the specified course work early.
What are some of the others?
Music performance
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Nursing.
Architecture.
Sciences in general typically need their requirements started early, although the volume may not be as high as for engineering majors.
Also, if a student is undecided between majors with significant course overlap in the first few semesters, then it may be possible to delay the decision.
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