<p>Now I’m confused too. Maybe it’s a “consequence” if it is laid out before the action occurs, and a “punishment” if it is imposed afterwards. If laid out before, the kid can consider whether or not to act in a manner that will trigger the consequence.</p>
<p>Calmom and mominsearch, big week around here. Curfew issue has come full circle thanks in part to reflection and cc feedback. Son now has no official time to be home at night, just needs to leave occasional messages on my turned-off cell phone (so I can listen if I feel the urge). This was a good suggestion. We’re working out the details, for instance, leaving the house for slurpee at 4am is still not resolved. Last night was first night, very tame, he returned home at 2:30am then got to work on time by 9am. Success all around.</p>
<p>Congratulations!</p>
<p>Good luck – you’re being even more relaxed than me since you turn off the cell phone and let him leave messages – a good system if you want your sleep. I still want to get the call, even if it wakes me up – though with your husband’s early-to-bed hours, I can see why you don’t want a phone ringing in the house.</p>
<p>I think you will find that with no limit, your son will have nothing to “prove”. There will be an occasional very late night out, but if he has to get to work the next morning he’s going to figure out on his own that he needs sleep the night before.</p>
<p>Time will tell. I’m keeping the phone off if I decide to go to sleep; if it’s an emergency, he can call the house line. If I’m awake, I suppose I could answer if I feel like it. Sometimes I will answer the cell on purpose, just to mix it up a little. For now, trying to go cold turkey.</p>
<p>Well, the only problem I see with your plan is that my own son had difficulties constructing full sentences when communicating with me – so I would have had messages like “Hi mom, I’m at the place with the people.” I always needed to have a 2-way conversation to get any detail past the fact that he was going to a “place” to do a “thing” with “people”. During his high school years he pretty much communicated in grunts in any case. I don’t have that issue with my daughter though. She tends to call repeatedly and give me far more information than I need to know about who just said what to whom.</p>
<p>Last night did not go so well. At 11:30pm my son was a passenger in a car (driven by a senior) that was sideswiped by another car. (driven by an adult). No one was hurt but the car was badly damaged. Immediately after the sideswipe, the other car fled and was PURSUED by the car my son was in for about 1/4 mile, until the other car stopped. It seems that the other driver was at fault, and alcohol/drugs/excessive speed do not seem to be factors. However by impulsively pursuing the other car then confronting the driver, my son’s friend put himself and his friends at risk for another accident, assault, who knows what. </p>
<p>My son did not tell me about the accident. He has never been in an accident before, and knows that cars/drivers/driving arrangements are a particular concern of mine, so this omission is quite troubling. I learned about it from the driver’s mother this afternoon, when she called to make sure that my son was not injured, prior to filing the accident report. The reason he gave me was that he knows I don’t want him to hang out with the boy who was driving, and son thought I’d be mad that he accepted a ride from him! </p>
<p>Meanwhile, though my son left two detailed messages (success) for me during the evening, exactly as we had agreed, he lied during each call about who was giving him rides (failure). In fact, he ended up walking home from a friend’s house at 3:15am. So much for rolling out the 15-week Freedom Plan.</p>
<p>Ouch! I can understand why your son might not mention a minor traffic scrape, given that no one was injured… that part’s an omission, not a lie, and as much as you would want to know, I think it is exactly the kind of thing that most kids try to downplay. But lying to you about who he is with is another matter – though since it all happened at 11:30 it is not really a curfew issue. But why even bother with the lie? Since he was leaving phone messages, he could has easily have said he was riding with “a friend” as opposed to giving you a fake name. Anyway, that’s what my daughter would do, and is part of the reason I like a live call – so I can ask “which friend?” </p>
<p>So I don’t really have advice for you. Just a comment: I had a long conversation with my daughter recently about some problems a friend of hers is having. The friend’s mom is very young at heart - so the mom is pretty much “cool” with everything the friend does, and they have a very open relationship. But the friend now has a substance abuse problem and other issues, and my daughter felt that the friend’s mom was too “cool” - that it was better when there were some boundaries as to what mom would accept and tolerate. My d. says that even though she feels it is safe to confide in me, she also has a strong sense of what my boundaries are - and there are sometimes things that she won’t tell me because of those boundaries.</p>
<p>So what I am saying is – your son’s lying is bad, but the fact that the reason he is lying is because he is aware he is crossing boundaries is good. Not good that he’s crossing those lines, but good that he’s very aware of them. The problem is that he is 18 and getting ready to go off to college – so the reality is that he is going to be doing a lot of things you wouldn’t approve of next year. I mean – didn’t we all do the same, at times, when we were young? But if your son is aware of boundaries, he will at least have second thoughts about what he is doing, and sometimes make the right decision. The incident in the car is also an object lesson for your son as to why you don’t want him hanging with the other kid – if your son was scared by it, then he might have been thinking, “mom was right.” </p>
<p>You are in a transitional time period, so I don’t have answers for how to deal with it now. I don’t deal with my own kids in a punitive manner (I don’t ground them, take away privileges, etc.) – but we talk things out. Sometimes there is a lot of talk, over several days. It is a 2-way process, not just a lecture from me, but also a lot of listening on my part. But we don’t let things go without at least coming to some sort of emotional resolution. But daughters are somewhat different than sons, and the truth is that my son was something of a late bloomer who hung out with very conservative, somewhat nerdy kids in high school, and didn’t really stretch his boundaries until he was away on the opposite coast, far out of my reach. My daughter has been pushing limits every step of the way… but girls are very different. My d. was never very good at keeping secrets, so she ends up telling me whatever is going on or what is bothering her, and there are very long, sometimes tearful conversations and lots of hugs at the end. Tears & hugs weren’t really part of my relationship with my son; he’s more the type who keeps things to himself, though now that he is older he seems more comfortable letting me know what’s on his mind.</p>
<p>Oh jeeez. I was really rooting for your son’s success so that I could follow with mine (since we were two of the few who had curfews imposed).</p>
<p>The fact that he’s lying about who he’s with is a problem. Why don’t you like his friend?</p>
<p>My high school junior has a curfew but wanted a later one which we were considering. Then found out that he lied last wkend and wkend before. One Sat nite he said good nite to us, turned off lights, and snuck out the deck door to a friend’s car. Next Sat nite he said he was sleeping at a guy’s house and doing a class project but went to coed sleepover at girlfriend’s. Oy.</p>
<p>Kids that lie and break rules might be itching for less freedom, not more? Sometimes boys devise all sorts of weird behavior to avoid difficult social situations or soical situations where they do not have peer pressure resistance. He has given you a giant message.</p>
<p>The high school situation and the college situation might be completely different. it may be that S (and you) are in for a bit of a rollercoaster ride next semester. Nevermind, he will get himself sorted, as thousands have done before him. He will be in good company. The fear of complete failure is higher at college. Some boys need that absolute terror to reign themselves in. Don’t fret. By this time next year, you’ll probably be pleased by his independence.</p>
<p>Besides, I don’t think it is possible for teenagers to feel free while living at home. I didn’t and I never met a teenager who did. Don’t beat yourself up about it.</p>
<p>I was almost there with you as I furiously texted S2 @ at 2:15am on Sunday (special extended curfew of 2 am), certain S2 was going to ditch the agreement and risk punitive measures (loss of phone, braodband connection, car). Suddenly the phone rang. “Can you pick us up? We can’t find a taxi anywhere.”</p>
<p>Bowl me over. I drove into town to find thousands of sports fans looking for taxis in the light rain. Found the boys, chomping on sandwiches, waiting on the curb, none the worse for wear. </p>
<p>They said the party–3 kegs and 12 cases of Icebreakers for 200 16 year olds–was awesome. Their band played (S2 is the unlikely manager). They danced like maniacs. they met a few girls they hadn’t met before. Amazingly, no scent of alcohol from the three in my car. Gave S2 my version of goodnight kiss cum breathalizer, ;). </p>
<p>Nothing. I’m sure he had a least one beer but I didn’t press it. </p>
<p>Meanwhile S1 was home by 11, skipping the obligatory pub crawl with his mates. What a change from last year. </p>
<p>Remember the CC mantra: Love the kid you have.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>I remember once my D went to a dance. She had been to dances before, just not at this school. She called me after about 20 minutes, crying. She really wanted to come home. She hated the music, she hated the way some of the girls were dancing, and she hated the way some of the guys were acting. I came and got her right away. She knew she should have thought about it when her friends said, be sure and NOT wear a skirt…</p>
<p>She was upset because she didn’t know how to leave, while saving face. We came up with a story, I told her to make sure the friends that were staying knew she was leaving, that they had rides, and if any wanted to leave as well. Some did, but couldn’t get ahold of their parents to get permission. I told her next time, if for some reason she can’t get ahold of me or her dad, is to sit by the ticket taker near the front and claim a headache.</p>
<p>We came up with a kind of code if she needs to leave a situation- party, dance, group of friends, to let me know she wants to get picked up but without seeming like a total loser. That was last year.</p>
<p>now, she just says, come and get me. No code or signals, she is more confident about saying something is ichy or lame.</p>
<p>Planning ahead of time really works</p>
<p>I’ve been very upfront with my son about some of the kids he knows. I actually like the driver of the car and was very impressed when I first met him, but I don’t want my son hanging out with him on a regular basis. He is a habitual pot smoker, though not quite a “stoner” and I’ve often seen him in the company of another boy who I believe to be a drug dealer and a slacker. I wouldn’t call the driver a bad influence, exactly, because he has many redeeming qualities, but I do see risk. His parents are clueless and think he’s very innocent. That kind of disconnect unnerves me. So while my son knows that I don’t want them to be close friends, and - important point - while he AGREES with all of my assessments regarding this boy, they do see each other at school and once in a blue moon on weekends. At this point, he has to make his own choices about friends. </p>
<p>I had a talk with my son. He wrote me a letter. He is expressing the appropriate emotions. We both had been feeling very joyful over the last couple of days with the new noncurfew situation. I knew that he would trip up in some way eventually, but really, the LAST thing I expected was little lies about transportation. (That’s SO two years ago!) I also didn’t expect any problems on the second day! Funny how a little lie gets complicated once there’s a complication like an accident. Why would a kid lie when they could just as easily tell the truth? I don’t get it. </p>
<p>He thought I would be mad about the accident and overreact. (The car was totalled and it was a special car that had been given custom touches by a school mate whose family we are friendly with.) I tried to explain that “accidents happen” whether it’s lunchtime or evening. And, in fact, the driver did a pretty good job of driving defensively as it could have been much worse. Now he knows (officially) that he HAS to tell me if he’s in an accident, even if it’s a little fender bender. I had thought this was obvious before, but apparently it was not. He also thought that mention of the driver’s name would get my radar going. </p>
<p>Anyway, I guess it’s a case of 2 steps forward, one step back. We are looking into the best way to deal with a hit-and-run so as to avoid any future pursuit chases. Also, I’m having him program into his cell phone the police numbers of the local townships and a couple of taxi services. All just practical matters.</p>
<p>3boysnjmom: what are you going to do? (We’re still pondering.) How did you handle it when you found out? That’s pretty common, the Sleepover Switcharoo and the Sneakout. Not much fun for the parentals, though.</p>
<p>momsdream: no rush! really.</p>
<p>calmom: I’m really trying not to grill him when he calls as I have been doing it pretty consistently for the past two years. He knows to identify the friend who drove him by name; it is our custom. “A friend dropped me off” would be interpreted by me as a cover-up. Yet, a specific name can obviously be a cover-up as well! Arrgghhh.</p>
<p>What gets me about teens- young adults, is that they get so offended when we ask what they are doing, and where, etc.</p>
<p>My DH tells me his schedule, i tell him mine, my mom tells us hers, and that is that. Its simple respect.</p>
<p>I tell my girls that somehow we parents find things out, the world ain’t that big, and if something happens, it WILL get back to us, or we will just KNOW. Like the eyes in the back of the head. I tell them its better to be honest up front and deal with the consequences, then for me to find out on my own…double argghhh</p>
<p>Thank goodness we have really loud dogs and live on a hill. Her friends, said hey, your house would be really easy to sneak out of, and D said, where would I go? Its like ten blocks down hill to the bus, but ten blocks up hill, and anyway, the dogs would give me away…our own little security system…</p>
<p>Dogs have been mentioned several times on this thread. Sounds like every family with teens who go out a lot should have at least one dog, maybe more, and throw in a parrot for good measure.</p>
<p>A certain amount of flexibility is a good idea - if you clamp down with an uncompromising “no” be prepared to have a mini-rebellion on your hands, but then again, you are still the parent so you should use discretion according to your values and personal comfort. However, I would think it would be in any parent’s best interest to instill a good sense of priorities (including curfews) in their kid before sending them off to the great unknown. lol.</p>
<p>Here’s an update:
It’s been 3-1/2 weeks since the start of the noncurfew arrangement. With the exception of the very first night, I have to say that the arrangement is working well, in fact, better than I expected. On average, my son has been coming home 2:15-2:30am. The latest night was about 3:30am. Many times when he comes home, I hear that most of the people he was with had expressed fatigue and were calling it a night. </p>
<p>Recently for the first time ever he gave as his reason for staying in, “I’m tired”, so it has been enlightening for him to not feel like he had to be one of the first to leave. Of course, in reality he hasn’t been the one with the earliest curfew in a while, but he believed that he was. He has opted to stay in a couple of times. Last night he went to a late movie with 2 friends then to the 24-hour deli.</p>
<p>He is expected to leave a message on my cell phone at about midnight, then to leave a second message on my cell phone when he is on his way home. If I feel like staying up or find myself getting involved in a project, I may be awake when he comes home. If not, he comes upstairs and wakes me up to let me know that he has arrived home.</p>
<p>I am encouraging him to be more proactive about making plans each week that include activities such as movies, bowling, or mini golf, rather than just spending the evening IMing then hanging out at impromptu gatherings at someone’s house. This is part of taking responsibility for the quality of his own social life, something that will be vitally important on campus. He seems to feel more energetic about making plans now that the curfew clock is not ticking. It’s really no different than in the past, but his perspective seems to have changed, or maybe he’s just feeling unburdened with schoolwork. It’s as if he expended more energy trying to compose each night based on what different groups of people were doing and when he needed to be home, than he did thinking about what he really wanted to do. This month I have seen a positive difference. He seems to have a better overall attitude, has taken on more responsibility at home, and has been given more responsibility at work. </p>
<p>This seems to be a good transition arrangement for now. Most likely it will evolve over the next ten weeks. I am optimistic.</p>
<p>School night - 9 or 10 for a teenager - have pity on the teachers who have to work with them the next day.</p>
<p>Weekend - 11 to midnight is fine unless they are going someplace that justifies a later time, inter alia, a concert or late movie, but not a club or late party. Phone calls are always welcomed and my kids know that if they ever had a problem, I would come and get them and not ask about the problem until they were ready to discuss it. I can live with a mystery easier than I could live without a kid.</p>
<p>Adult clubs that allow teenagers to come in and get their hand marked a different color make it pretty easy for a teen to get alcohol. Older friend buys two rums and coke, you buy one coke…</p>
<p>My justification for keeping regular hours is that I sleep and I wake up but I don’t want to wake up at three when someone else comes in. I do like to have a conversation with my children when they come in the door. I think knowing that there will be a friendly conversation at night has reduced the alcohol and other common problems, it has also allowed them a chance (although they don’t always take it) to talk about events.</p>
<p>What does a under 21 year old do until 230am? In our town, any clubs that allow underage kicks them out at midnight at the latest…</p>
<p>That’s what I’d like to know. Daughter wanted to go out Saturday with girlfriends to danceclub. Fine–she’s never really gone out much and of course I want her to start having some fun this summer before college. But somehow, it always gets complicated. They want to go around 9pm so I say fine, then just be home by midnight. Midnight sounds reasonable for a soon-to-be 18year old, on a Saturday according to my mom-thermometer. But then she calls friends and someone says but their curfew is later and so she’d be making the others come home early just for her. Oy, shades of prom night again. Well okay, I bend, 1am is the latest, but that means you start thinking about leaving around 12-12:30 and you’re HOME by 1. Unbelievably, even that apparently didn’t sit well with her friends, but at least daughter could see the sense. She saw the look on my face and seemed to know this was really, really stretching limits. Being on the streets after midnight just isn’t safe, with the drunks and mostly other kids up at that time, on the road. So she told them not to count her in and decided to babysit that night instead. I even told her, gosh if it was some kind of event, or concert say, where it had an end that went past midnight I’d understand, but just to hang out at some club till 2-3am or whenever for no real reason, that’s nuts. Why put yourself at risk driving home at that hour for that? And I believe also that curfews have a lot to do with courtesy to your parents and not inconveniencing them by staying up or worrying about you. She has the rest of her life to party all night long if she wishes, but as long as she’s home she has to keep reasonable hours. I think she understands the concept and I am so appreciative that she doesn’t press the issue, for now at least.</p>