@thumper1 I have no idea what the OP’s friends were thinking, but I do know families where they have been blindsided by their change in relationship with their kids.
Have you seen the 3m command strip commercial where the parents leave and the family photo calendar is pulled off the minute the parents walk out the door? That commercial shouts disconnect bc the parents must have thought it would be a good idea and they really didn’t understand their kid and their parent/adult child relationship. It also shows that 3m thinks it is a completely normal parent/adult child scenario. (I don’t think it is from any direction…from the parents making the calendar in the first place to the student throwing it out.) I find it a sad social commentary. Parents and kids don’t have to have “breaking the chains” or “rebellious” relationships. There has to be a shift toward adult-adult, but it doesn’t have to be one based on negative experiences. It can be a positive, healthy, and loving change.
Unfortunately, I have a friend who sadly has tenuous relationships with her adult children and “breaking the chains” sums up their adult-adult relationships. She makes comments like the OP’s friends. She blames it all on their going off to college and says they are only going to pay for their youngest to live at home and commute. I personally don’t agree with her perception of their relationships and think the issues go way deeper and further back than college. But, I do know she has been blindsided by their comments.
I agree with your last point, @Mom2aphysicsgeek – a “breaking the chains” kind of result is likely not caused by the college but by the relationship going way farther back. It sounds like an authoritarian kind of parenting–“we expect you to think this, do this, be like us” etc., not parenting which urges independent thinking, curiosity, and acceptance of adult choices.
Colleges don’t teach “values”-- except open-mindedness, critical thinking, and (for lack of a better word) tolerance. If those lead to conflict, the problem isn’t college; the problem is the parenting.
“I agree with your last point, @Mom2aphysicsgeek – a “breaking the chains” kind of result is likely not caused by the college but by the relationship going way farther back. It sounds like an authoritarian kind of parenting–“we expect you to think this, do this, be like us” etc., not parenting which urges independent thinking, curiosity, and acceptance of adult choices.”
Excellent point. My daughter is stunned by her friend’s parents who operate that way. I’ve tried to make her understand that for some people raised in different cultures they just don’t know any other way. I wasn’t raised that way. Nor was my mother whose own mother gained a step mother when she was 15 whom she had a friendship type relationship with. Dealing with adult children as though you had a right to control them just wasn’t in our family culture. It’s harder for people who think that this is normal and who are afraid of their children becoming truly independent.
Yes, we worked on our present and future relationships with ours since they were little. DH and I were captains of the ship but knew from our own experiences that kids become their own selves. College didn’t “change” ours, life formed them.
And they learn a lot from friends- new opportunities, ways of doing things, sometimes resilience. In both girls’ cases, friends enhanced their lives, not took them further from us.
My kids blossomed in college. Older son finally found peers who liked to program computers and play board games. His (very few) high school friends and he did not have much in common. He’s on the other coast which would likely have happened no matter where he went. Younger son, grew intellectually at college. He remains close with his high school friends. He lived with us for over a year after he graduated and we really enjoyed his company. Good conversation, interesting opinions. He ended up persuading all of us to vote for Bernie in the primaries. He’s now in the Navy, not what we would have predicted at all!
I’m curious whether the people OP were talking to are close with their own parents? DH and I don’t live in the same state as our parents, but we still make them a priority. DH talks to his parents on the phone several times a week; I make the kids join in a (weekly-ish) Skype call with my parents whenever they’re around. We travel to visit our parents and vacation with mine. Our children have learned that they can follow their own path, but that doesn’t end the connection to family.
Kiddo #1 has flourished at school. I really can’t say enough about what a positive change we’ve seen in her. She’s 500 miles away, but when something good (or bad) happens to her, she calls us to share. I’d like to think it’s because she’s learned by our example that out of sight and far away can still mean that you’re top of someone’s mind.
We did not want our kids to remain the same as they were in high school. That would defeat the purpose of college, wouldn’t it? We raised our kids to pursue their dreams. For one kid that meant living and working in another country. Permanently. Not exactly what we had in mind, but she is happy. For the other kid that meant not living in the suburbs. We live in the suburbs. I asked her if the suburbs bothered her in high school. It didn’t because as she said she didn’t know any better. Her college was in a city. Although she is currently living in a suburb, it’s Silicon Valley, so not far from The City.
It has been fun and very rewarding watching them become their own person.
I think all of this depends on how the kids grew up. We live in a major city. Kids are self reliant taking trains to busses to high school at an early age. They are self confident very early on. Our kids did away programs in middle school - high school so going to college was not the first experience to be away. Ie:my son went to engineering camps almost yearly in the summer for like 10 days. He flew to California by himself after 10th grade and spent 10 days at Berkeley through a program. When he came back from that, there was a “major” positive change. He discovered himself and that he could compete at that level. It was one of the best things we did for him. He also did one in Michigan and one in Milwaukee.
But also when my kids were little they went away to summer camp. My independent daughter went away to horse back riding camp at 7-12 year old. She was begging us to go away that summer. It was the only camp that would take 7 year Olds. This was in another state about 4 hours from us. Again, scary but one of the best things we ever did for her.
She is now coming back today from 2 months in Indonesia (state department critical language program) and starts school tomorrow as a junior. She also did study abroad there in the fall then took off 2 months to backpack to Vietnam , loas and, Cambodia . So she’s been away in southeast Asia for 8/12 months. A year of a lifetime. Did she change, grow more independent this year. You betcha! Was it a little tough on mom and dad this year… You betcha! But we believe the self confidence she gained when she was young she applies to her daily life. These experiences will only help her to be more success in the future. She also turned 21 while away and wants to get her “first… Laughing” “legal” drink with mom and dad.
The other half of this question is…how much did your child going to college change YOU? Whether they stayed home or went away.
Our kids going to college is also part of our life journey - and for all involved some change is to be expected, no???
I have seen WAY too many situations where parents really influence the decision of their child to stay home. It could be finances at times for sure. Or just the child’s personal choice. But often, I think it’s just fear of change - and/or loss of control.
I suppose it comes down to expectations – we wanted our kids to broaden their experience and that included leaving the area for college.They have grown in wonderful, and sometimes unexpected ways, and we enjoy watching them launch. We are as close as ever, though I do need to watch my tendency to want to get too involved. We don’t expect them to build their careers near us, though it is nice, for now, that they are within about a 4 hour drive so that they can see us and we can visit them.
My oldest got a lot more focused and organized in college. Youngest just matured a bit (not quite as much as I’d like, but you can’t have everything). And youngest gained career direction, which is a relief. But there were only minor changes in values — and some were eye opening and helpful for me to absorb. Parents with closed minds who have wrapped their kids in cotten wool are likely to get surprised when their kids are more exposed to the world.
Answering the other questions… My kids actually have opinions of the world and what is happening abroad all over the world. They have political views. I didn’t vote for Bernie but man, my daughter was very passionate about voting for him. I did give her my point of view and we had a nice mature discussion. I just try to teach be more open minded and look at all sides before rendering a decision. I guess what I learned is that they actually have view points and care to what’s happening around them which is cool.
For us being empty nesters last year… Lol… Once they left our first week we went to a Cubs game, went out to a theater play, had groups of friends over for back yard dinners and drinks. When we talked with them later that week they wanted to know "how we"were doing. We told them we were managing.
Who doesn’t have hopes for their kids? We worked hard throughout DS childhood to help him feel that he was a citizen of the world and has a responsibility beyond himself. Would I feel disappointed if he came home from college with a sense of deserved white privilege and entitlement? Absolutely. But that is a risk I am willing to take. It’s his life, not mine.
I have watched enough friends run off the rails from following a path that’s not authentic to them (and, may I add, one often pushed more by peers and community than parents.) I am certain that I will not like every decision he makes, but my hope is that he won’t make them to rebel against us and that he can stay true to what makes him fulfilled.
I’ve said before that some of us achieve our own greatness, but some of us are what I call “conveyors.” We teach ours the skills, thinking, willingness to risk and the resilience, “convey” those attributes and skills, and maybe they’re the ones who do big things. Or not, but they, in turn, pass that on and it’s their kids or somewhere else down the line.
I’m proud of all the kids I hear of on CC who forge a path, one way or another. Even kindness passes on, has an impact somewhere, somehow. I’m surprised at how many of my kids’ classmates, so frivolous in high school, have become responsible and caring.
@thumper1 Imho they lived very childcentric lives, invested lot of time, money, affection and effort into raising their children with some sort of vision of them as grown adults. They can’t swallow the rude awakening that children doesn’t share that vision and hence think distance and influence of other people at colleges with no guidance from parents changed them and their relationships with parents.
Their kids who stayed at home or nearby, had proximity and continued influence of parents so they didn’t change as much and are emotionally closer to them.
Here is what they don’t know…those kids who stayed closer to home might have not changed and grown even IF they went further away for college. And those who went further away might still have changed and grown even if they lived at home.
We wanted our kids to grow and evolve as their own adults. And believe me…we led child centric lives as well. Our kids were involved in activities where we, as parents, had huge involvement as well.
After HS, we hoped and expected our kids to continue to grow…and yes, change.
Would anyone here (or your friends, for that matter) even WANT to be essentially the same person they were in high school for themselves? If not, why want that for your kids?
We all grow and become independent thinkers … I’d hope.
CCM, no one lives in a perfect bubble.
Someone asked about our own parents. One of my mother’s phrases was that, if we never tried anything new, we’d still be eating pablum. You can raise your kids with good values, mutual respect and affection, and accept that the world changes around us.
I don’t just see myself in my girls. In many ways, good ways, they are also like my mother (in the good sense. My mother was plenty flawed. But she knew how to embrace life.)
There was a time when my mother angrily asked me if I’d learned anything from her (sort of a legacy question.) We were both surprised by how much I could quickly rattle off, a long, good list.
My close by kid is the one who has pulled away from us more than the one who went to college far away. The one who is far away is always excited and grateful to see us. Close by kid? Not so much!
Seriously, they have both grown and changed in ways I couldn’t have imagined. I am delighted with the young men they have become.
