How much do B grades impact applications to top tier schools like Stanford, Yale, Princeton, and Caltech?

Applying to College
21

I get it - it’s hard - but remind him that careers are long. Life is a marathon and not a sprint.

There was never an assurance he’d get a top 10. At the same time, there’s no assurance he still won’t.

But imagine if you needed to borrow $50K a year, $200K to send him. I don’t know your finances. That might be $2500 a month. I’m just making up loan amounts - but budget is always first.

So you have to manage that up front. And the UCs aren’t necessarily budget beating but it depends.

The UCs don’t take tests and have essays. I would not classify UCSB as a safety. Maybe Riverside, Merced, and Santa Cruz - but not UCSB.

It’s hard to understand at 17 - but he will make his success in life, not his school name. And he needs to visit schools and find campus environments he would enjoy. Many kids, mine included, visited schools - and that changed their opinion. My son was all set to attend Purdue engineering, until friends dragged him to Alabama and it was game over. He just loved the modern, clean feel and solo dorm room that Honors students get.

You mentioned Cal Tech - I’m assume he hasn’t visited and studied what type of school it is. It’s nothing - really like - any other university.

Once you are there, the name is irrelevant - you have to live for four years.

So it might be time to have that chat with him about becoming a grown up and making wise choices, not just ego ones.

You need to retire one day, etc. and he doesn’t need to owe $500 or $1000 or $2000, etc. a month for 10 years - because what if he can’t pay it. I don’t know how much you’d need to borrow but if it’s more than the federal limits, you’ll be on the hook.

This example is just that - to make a point - not to recommend the school. Did you know more than 1100 Californians are at Alabama. I’m guessing most are very high stat - that’s why they go - high merit $$. if they are strong students They attract 1500 from Illiniois, 2K from NY/NJ/CT. The point - there’s top kids everywhere - literally - so your son isn’t being short changed if he ends up at an Arizona State (top Honors college) or Oregon State (lots of top college kids here had it as their back up and loved it) - or a UCR. If he’s at CSUN, Arizona or UCR, he’s not going to be the top kid. There will be kids more accomplished. But his hard work will deliver him a top notch affordable education at many thousands cheaper than others due to his academic accomplishments - if these type schools are his back up.

Your student can succeed from anywhere - if you can make it through engineering, you’re top notch. It’s not an easy major with a 50% drop rate nationwide.

But he should find the right place and again, no one here is an adcom. Put up your list - but if you go tooo reach heavy, he’ll need to be prepared for rejection.

His hard work is never wasted. If he’s got great study habits, those will be needed at the next level - whether Harvard or Hofstra. He will be challenged in school whether CSUN or Yale.

So it’s a mind set thing - but as I noted earlier, my SEC kid found out he was making more than the Ivy kid at the next company - so - he will be fine if he hustles and takes advantage of the offerings at whatever the college he attends offers.

Purdue is a low cost, top school - so may be another to consider. If he gets that 1500 SAT, I think it would be likely. You don’t get a specific engineering major the first year but rather after.

Good luck to your son - but please manage his expectations.

btw - another big name that doesn’t take an SAT into account (if he doesn’t do well) - would be U Wash.

Good luck.

22

The main number 1 value of all of that hard work is to be ready to do well in tough classes after arriving in university. There will be tough classes at any ABET accredited engineering program (or at any “top 200” premed or pre-vet program, or in many other classes and majors and career paths). That hard work is not wasted. As one example, it teaches study skills. Those study skills are going to be needed wherever your son goes to college, and will overlap with skills that are needed on the job.

And graduates from Stanford work alongside graduates from San Jose State and many other schools all the time. Graduates from Princeton work alongside graduates from Rutgers (and …) all the time (I am assuming that many graduates end up getting a job somewhere near where they went to school – which of course is not necessary at all). Ditto for MIT and U.Mass and UNH (and …). In the vast majority of cases no one cares where you got your degree.

But wherever a student goes to university (assuming ABET accreditation for an engineering program), the hard work that they put in during high school is going to help them to do well.

There may be a warning here about jumping ahead too quickly. This is something that a student needs to keep in mind when they get to university. There really are classes that no high school student is ready to take YET. Strong students will be ready at some point, but each student needs to take classes at the right pace. Education is a marathon, not a sprint.

And the hard work to pull the B in Calculus up to an A in the second term is also going to be very, very useful. There are a lot of things in for example physics and EE that use calculus. The same thing could be said for the hard work to pull up his grades in physics. This hard work is not wasted at all.

3 Likes
23
1 Like
24

My son is fortunate to be on a very elite team. They were schooled literally all over the planet. Last year, a MIT grad got fired. That’s not to pick on MIT, but to say it’s the person, not the school.

As for putting in all the work and not getting a T10 seat, do the math. There are more than two times as many high school valedictorians as there are T10 freshman seats.

4 Likes
25

My daughter’s best friend had straight A’s, Salutatorian, 1590 SAT, sports team captain, leadership and essay awards and was rejected by every single Ivy.

You can always apply and maybe your son will get in, but a reality check as there are thousands of competitive students who dont get into any Ivy, or T20 schools, let alone Stanford, Princeton or Yale.

8 Likes
26

With the B grades and 4 (instead of 5) scores being concentrated in math and science, that may make the likelihood of admission less given the intended engineering major (particularly at places like Caltech and those where engineering majors are more selective).

2 Likes
27

Why no core science in 12th? Can he add a DE core science in second semester? DE Electronics is an elective.

Once you post your UC GPAs, @gumbymom can help categorize the UCs.

Please help him understand that where he goes to college does not determine his worth or potential. His hard work is worthwhile simply because it helps him build grit, good habits, and the knowledge and skills that he learns are his forever. Engineering higher ed is relatively more egalitarian than some other majors. He has a strong record and can meet his goals/be successful wherever he attends college.

Has he visited any schools that have relatively more likely admission chances and/or is he excited about any of those schools?

2 Likes
28

Could you please do a chance me/match me thread and annswer all of the questions? This will give us more complete information.
And as noted Stanford, Princeton, Yale and Cal Tech are reach schools for just about everyone.

What else did he take beside those core courses? Any arts courses or other electives?

1 Like
29

This is worth repeating and stressing. This was the experience of my D’s HS valedictorian as well with perfect GPA and a 36 in one sitting, all 5s on every AP exam, highest rigor, varsity captain, tons of awards, published research, etc… Was even WL’ed at a top state flagship for engineering.

I’ll also add that Purdue, mentioned by another poster, is not going to be a likely with Bs in math and science courses for an out of state prospective engineering major from an over represented state with only AP stats as a senior year math class and no science.

OP - I would strongly encourage you to manage your expectations about college name and just focus on finding the right school for your child. His hard work will help him succeed in college and beyond. Doing well in HS isn’t about getting into a prestigious college, it’s about learning how to learn, establishing a strong work ethic, organizational skills, etc… The name on his college diploma will not define his career path and his future success, especially in engineering which is much more egalitarian than something like investment banking or poly sci.

4 Likes
30

A couple of “B” grades during 9th or 10th grade will matter less than ones received during 11th & 12th grade for “PHYSM” admissibility. It will depend on which subjects - whether core or elective. It also depends on the high school. In the case of most public high schools, typically 4.0 unweighted GPA students are the ones going to Princeton, Stanford, or Yale, with non-4.0 students, the ones with just 1 or 2 "B"s assigned as final grades are typically exceptions (the “B” grades may have not been deserved). Other types of high schools, it could be more common for students with 3.8 GPA or even lower & even a few "C"s to get admitted. But these high schools are the exceptional cases with respect to these students. The same student with identical grades at a “regular” high school will have zero chance of getting admitted.

The mean GPA of admitted is never a unweighted 4.0 at any college. But it’s likely around a 3.9 for “PHYSM.” I would say that for most students attending a typical public high school, the third “B” would be the kiss of death; the applicant would get rejected during an initial screening.

1 Like
31

3.50 GPA (especially if they still take weighted GPA from the high school) and 1420 SAT (top ~6% of SAT takers) to get the Presidential scholarship is high stat, but not “very high” stat.

2 Likes
32

Would your son be happy attending CSUN? If so, that is great. I would suggest adding at least one other safety to the list.

I agree with the other poster(s) that UCSB is not a safety. UCSB is at least a target.

Your calculation of a 5.09 weighted GPA does not appear to be correct. Please use the RogerHub GPA calculator that was linked above.

The odds are low, but your son may get into one of more of the top tier schools that you listed. If he really wants to attend, he should apply. I do not work in admissions, so I don’t know for sure, but I would be particularly surprised if a student with Bs and 4s in calculus and physics got into Caltech for engineering. I would expect Caltech students to ace those classes and tests easily. But if he really likes Caltech, he should apply if he wants to. I suggest that he apply to two or three of his favorite reaches (or maybe a few more, if he wants), but he should focus his efforts on target and safety schools where he would be happy to attend.

I am sorry that your son is heartbroken that he may not earn a seat in a top 10 school. It sounds like he did not have realistic expectations. No college is perfect, including Stanford, Yale, Princeton, and Caltech. There are many great colleges where he can get a good education in EE or some related field. If you fill out the match me/chance me template, we can suggest other schools that your son might like. Aside from top ranking, what is he looking for in a college, in terms of size, geographic preferences, etc.? What is your budget? He should have at least two safeties that he would be excited to attend on his college list.

The sequencing of your son’s math classes was unusual and unfortunate.

I would also stress to your son that you love him no matter what, and you are proud of him and his hard work thus far. He is a bright kid with his whole future in front of him. All is not lost if a kid gets denied from the top whatever schools. Far from it.

5 Likes
33

The point as was noted b4 the example - and i can find lots of schools - high achievement earns big $$ at many places. But many of those students, like my son, are straight As with high test scores and/or are National Merit Finalists (maybe the most in the country). What you listed is a minimum to gain the big $$ - and there’s more engineering $$ with the test score. And there are kids that go toe to toe with anyone.

Nonetheless, It was noted up front simply as an example to let the parent know to make sure the student knows their hard work will pay off - even if not a top 10 or higher echelon UC. And btw, the student doesn’t yet have a test score.

I’m trying to help OP see the hard work will pay off one way or another.

We don’t know OPs ability to pay either - they mentioned loans (not how much would be needed). Hopefully that isn’t the case.

34

Is this kind of math acceleration from being on-level in 9th normal at his high school, or did he push this because of a desire to get into a top school? If the latter, I can understand his potential disappointment. However he will certainly get into a very good program, and there are some outstanding engineering programs outside the top 10. As others have said, please make sure he knows that getting into a lottery school is not a measure of his self-worth. My kids went to a competitive Bay Area public (not one of the super competitive peninsula ones but still very good), and I am not aware of anyone who got into Stanford unhooked even with stellar academic records. Should he apply to any top tier - yes, but these applications are time consuming and he should discern those that he thinks he really has a good fit with and concentrate on that. Suggest you also look at whatever system his school uses (naviance etc) to help judge-at our school, there are clearly some colleges the school punches above its weight with. His counselor should have some insight too. Above all encourage him to enjoy being a teenager for his last year of high school.

2 Likes
35

Here are the overall admit rates and admitted UC GPA’s when listed for each UC campus.

Campus UC GPA’s 25th-75th percentile for admitted freshman 2026 Overall Acceptance Rates
UC Berkeley 2026 Capped weighted: 4.16-4.28 Unweighted: 3.90-4.00 Weighted Uncapped: 4.36-4.72 10.5%
UC Davis 2026 Capped weighted: 4.00-4.25 2025 Unweighted: 3.79-4.00 45.8%
UC Irvine 2026 Capped weighted: 4.06-4.27 2025 Unweighted: 3.84-4.00 30.3%
UCLA 2026 Capped weighted: 4.20-4.30 2025 Unweighted: 3.95-4.00 Weighted uncapped: 4.44-4.78 10.8%
UC Merced 2026 Capped weighted: 3.57-4.16 94.7%
UC Riverside 2026 Capped weighted: 3.66-4.17 88.2%
UC San Diego 2026 Capped weighted: 4.12-4.28 2025 Unweighted: 3.84-4.00 27.2%
UC Santa Barbara 2026 Capped weighted: 4.05-4.27 2025 Average Weighted Uncapped: 4.29. Average Unweighted 3.91 44.0%
UC Santa Cruz 2026 Capped weighted: 3.79-4.20 2025 Avg Unweighted 3.74 82.4%

For EE specifically, only a few UC’s offer the data. Most data is based on the Engineering disciplines and NOT specific for EE. I included some Cal states just for reference.

Campus Electrical Eng
UC Berkeley 7.6% EECS/ ECE No Data Campus Unweighted 3.90-4.00 Engineering Capped weighted 4.21-4.30 Campus Weighted Uncapped 4.32-4.78
UC Davis Engineering discipline 39% Campus Unweighted 3.79-4.00 Engineering Capped weighted 4.09-4.29
UC Irvine EE 23% Campus Unweighted 3.84-4.00 Engineering Capped weighted 4.12-4.29
UCLA 8.7% Campus Unweighted 3.95-4.00 Engineering Capped weighted 4.25-4.32 EE Weighted uncapped 4.61-4.84
UC Merced EE 90% Engineering Capped weighted 3.69-4.21
UC Riverside EE 84% Engineering Capped weighted 3.84-4.22
UC San Diego Engineering 19% Selective major. Campus Unweighted 3.85-4.00 Engineering Capped weighted 4.16-4.30
UC Santa Barbara Engineering 21%. Campus Unweighted average 3.91. Engineering Capped weighted 4.20-4.30
UC Santa Cruz 61.7% Engineering Capped weighted 3.84-4.22
Cal Poly SLO Projected 25% SLO Engineering GPA 4.14-4.25
Cal State Long Beach 44.1% Average CSU GPA for EE 4.0
San Diego State 39% Average CSU GPA for campus 4.08
San Jose State Impacted Major/Threshold Impaction Index for EE 3000
Cal Poly Pomona Impacted Major/CPP Index Threshold 4465 with no other MFA points, minimum CSU GPA of 4.01.

Cal Poly SLO uses 9-11th a-g course grades instead of the 10-11th like the UC’s and the rest of the CSU’s for their GPA calculation. Use the CSU GPA calculator and include the 9-11th grades plus there is an 8 semester Honors point cap for CSU approved HS Honors, AP,IB and DE classes taken 10-11th grades only. https://www.calstate.edu/apply/gpa-calculator/

3 Likes
36

The safety I’d add would be mechatronics at Chico State. If electronics is his thing, EEs tend to work on less tangible stuff, while mechatronics incorporates EE knowledge into tangible electronics things. My son has a mechatronics concentration and a MS in ME focused on aerodynamics. If you want to know more about mechatronics and how it has played out for him, PM me.

1 Like
37

California’s GPA calculator is peculiar. Students who have taken a lot of classes should be rewarded, but instead are punished because the volume dilutes the impact of the honors courses. My back of the napkin math has him around 4.15, but once you run the calculator, you’ll know for certain. It’s confusing how summer courses are counted. @Gumbymom can guide you. Also, for Cal Poly, include 9th grade.

1 Like
38

Others have largely covered the important points, but I would just like to emphasize something.

I don’t think the US News National Universities formula is useful for answering a question like which are the 10 engineering programs someone with an interest in Electrical Engineering should be most excited about attending. Of course it isn’t even trying to answer that question.

I don’t think you should see the following ranking as exactly that either, but it is certainly closer, since it is looking specifically at EE departments in the form of published EE research:

On this list, 7 of the top 10 are public engineering powerhouses. This is not a mistake. The study of engineering in US universities is disproportionately done at public colleges for complex historic reasons. That doesn’t mean MIT, Stanford, and Caltech (the three privates in the top 10) could not ALSO be good choices. Nor the other good privates that will keep coming up as you go down this list. But they will keep being mixed in with the best public engineering colleges, and again that is no mistake.

Speaking of Caltech–some people would prefer a smaller, more focused STEM college. Which could be great, but many of the best of those are not on the US News National Universities list because they don’t have doctoral programs (Caltech being an exception). But that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t strongly consider them, IF that is a sort of program that might interest him.

If that sounds interesting, I would check out this list for some suggestions:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/engineering-overall

In cases like this, you have to then look up their specific engineering program, see how it functions, if it has any majors you would want to consider, and so on. But definitely worth investigating if that is a type of institution of interest.

OK, so using sources like this, and depending on what he is really looking for in an undergraduate engineering program, he can do much better than just using the US News National Universities rankings to pick his favorites.

And then I am quite confident some of those will be fine with the Bs, indeed some might even offer him merit (if they have merit). Or maybe they all will be fine with the Bs, but it won’t really matter what each one decides individually.

39

The issue with this methodology is that it doesn’t measure the impact on undergrads and it leaves off great schools that don’t offer PhD, and thus don’t churn out research.

Research institutions are good at that…research. Will they be good at teaching? Will the classes be huge? What are the undergraduate facilities like?

Cal Poly is #2 in the USNWR ranking for EE at schools that do not offer PhD, just behind Rose-Hulman and ahead of Harvey Mudd. All three produce great engineers. None are on that list because they don’t have doctoral programs.

1 Like
40

And yet #5 U Mich has salaries barely above other “normal” or non prestigious schools. And #9 Penn State, where OP would surely get into, has reported salaries below many including the two As mentioned above.

It goes to the - using a word from another poster - engineering is more egalitarian.

In the end, you want the schools you want but you also want bang for the buck - especially when you talk about loans.

Top in a ranking - that frankly is a popularity contest (US News) or like this one is based on academic citations in papers - doesn’t necessitate real world success.

And I think that’s what this and many other posters miss. It goes to show, as my son told me, to the companies, it’s not a thing.

To parents and students - its a thing. And to magazines selling and websites getting clicks to sell advertising, its a thing.

If OP is a hustler and takes advantage - whether it’s Yale or UCR or Oregon State, they’ll be fine.

In the end, kids are going to college, in most cases, to get a job. It’s nice to have the flashy name but in most cases, while it’s great for bragging rights, it’s not necessarily impacting beyond.