How Much Do You think You Need to Retire? What Age Will You/Spouse Retire? General Retirement Issues (Part 2)

We had an abrupt situation that forced these moves earlier than we’d ever thought about as a family, as my very active and healthy Mom had a brain aneurism at 64. In their late 50s my parents built their new home with Universal Design principles (e.g. all hallways and doorways were wide enough for wheelchairs and walkers; door handles were levers instead of knobs; the primary bathroom had a gorgeous no threshold shower and lots of space, as well as elegant yet wholly functional and anchored “towel” bars that were actually grab bars; and there was a no-step entrance available to the home, etc.). This was all so that in 20-30 years, when they were much older, they could age comfortably in place.

Well, after the aneurysm she was in a wheelchair for about 2 years, then a walker, then walking comfortably without it, and her rehabilitation was made all the more possible by the fact that she wasn’t stuck in a den with a hospital bed, and grappling with an inaccessible bathroom. She was able to be anywhere in their home and always with the family. They were extraordinarily fortunate to be able to make these choices with their home, and it was devastating that she needed to use those planned features decades earlier than they ever thought possible. She also has cognitive and speech deficits that persist to this day and she can not drive, or handle finances.

So our family got pushed very quickly—while our parents were just in their early 60s—into suddenly needing to think about “caring for our parents” and realizing that we needed to quickly put a lot of guardrails and structures into place in case something happened to our Dad, as he is the person that takes care of her. We needed to work out advance plans for if he was incapacitated briefly (“hit by a bus, but you’re going to come out of the coma in a month and be hunky dory in 2 months”) or needed assistance (“you fall off the roof and bonk your head and can’t do math”), or “the bus was enormous and it’s lights out for good.”

(We had to use dark humor at this time to get through this!)

The sobering fact of what had happened to our Mom meant these conversations couldn’t be put off until some time in the future. The future was already here.

A few years later, in their mid 70s, our parents decided to move to a wonderful not-for-profit senior community in which they have their own fully independent apartment (and live fully independently), but in any of the “hit by a bus” scenarios, our Mom would be instantly supported in any way she might need. They would take her to the grocery store, her physician is nearby, there is a rich social life and activities there, and if she needed any greater levels of support she will not need to leave and move anywhere else.

While they did not “need” to live there when they moved, they decided to downsize and move before anything changed and they (perhaps suddenly) needed more care. And we now have regular conversations as a family about how they would like things handled. In the last year we’ve become more involved in their finances, and over the last many years we’ve written shared Google documents around all the things that one needs to know.

Moving before they needed it made it so much easier. The process of moving: the decisions, the packing, the downsizing - all easier because they had the cognitive and physical abilities to do so. Putting the house on the market, making significant financial decisions, all of that—it was so much easier to do it before it became difficult, or before they couldn’t walk or drive or understand all the decisions around where they might move to, etc. And now they’ve had several years to make great friends, to be deeply involved in their new community, and they are so glad they moved when they did, as they see so many of their lifelong friends, also in their early 80s now, who are in their big family homes, and are overwhelmed and exhausted by the tasks ahead.

So yes, all of these experiences in my family have absolutely affected how I approach things. From pushing the early conversations around “what if Dad is hit by a bus, what do we do” to now - where even though my kiddo just finished his first year of college, we’ve already started having conversations about all the things that happen behind the scenes in life; e.g. bringing him on board with all the caretaking around the family cabin, paying bills, sharing our family Google documents with him, and talking through about how we plan for things. And as I am single Mom (and he does not have a relationship with his father) he knows that I have everything written down and shared with his Aunt, so that if anything happens to me she will know exactly what to do and where things are, and how all the infrastructure in our life is maintained.

I have seen my friend’s parents be completely fine and then one day everything changes in an instant and the adult children are scrambling, trying to find a place where their Mom or Dad could get the resources they need. In an already heartbreaking and stressful time, trying to figure these things out in real time is devastating. The earlier we can plan and make proactive changes, the more we can focus on supporting one another emotionally and being present during hard times, rather than trying to find a lawyer and start figuring things out in a crisis.

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Thanks so much for sharing your family story. That was so helpful to read.

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Wanting to add and reinforce some other points made above:

Communities that have continuing levels of care are the best places to be if they’re available. Thus you won’t need to move if you need memory care, or higher medical needs. What is essential to know however, is that the majority of these places often have guidelines where you need to live in independent living when you join; e.g. you can not move straight to memory care from your home.

The best communities (i.e. not the fanciest, but the most caring, well resourced, places with the best long term, low turnover staff, solid financials, etc.) will have waitlists. Waitlists that are 2-5 years! So it is best to put yourself on a waitlist well before you think you might want to move, and if your name comes up you can decide if you’re ready, or ask them to move your name a few rows down.

Non-profit communities are IMO the best. Places that have significant resident involvement, where residents are on the board, they run and organize interest groups, and they are “community minded” first and foremost.

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“The older you get, the older older gets.” Always seems as though there is time.

I think the hard thing would be deciding if you preferred moving close to your adult kids if none were close by. And, even then, how can you know if they would necessarily stay put? I guess it might depend on the age differential, too. When I am 70, our ds will only be 37 years old. Even at 47 years old when I’m 80, will he be, “settled”?

Several years ago, at the request of a friend, I was put in touch with my friend’s friend who was moving to our area and wanted to ask me about neighborhoods/schools, etc. This friend of a friend was extremely irritated that she also had to find an assisted living place for her mother. It came across so harshly to me. These folks were probably mid to late 40’s but her husband had gotten a nice job in our area which prompted their move. So, if I wanted to live near ds, I wouldn’t want to move too soon lest he be resentful like this friend’s friend was.

On the other hand, I wish my mil would move into a continuing care facility now. She is 85 and in good health. My sil is 63 and retired, and they live in the same town. So mil wouldn’t have to give up her friend group, her bridge groups, her volunteer spot, or her church. Sil isn’t going anywhere. My mil isn’t rich, but she definitely has the resources to do this. She has the capacity to be proactive now. But, I fear her failure to be proactive now will cause us to have to be reactive later. And, it won’t be about money - it will be about availability.

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I’m sure I’ve posted this here before, but I remember when my aunt was helping clean out her MIL’s place. She had to go to a dementia facility. My aunt found her (sizable) diamond ring wrapped up in a tissue inside a curler bag. I probably would have just thrown the entire thing out!

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A continuing care place is only worthwhile IF the resident is willing to move to a higher level of care place. Some folks just refuse to move even if they really should, and need to. It’s a problem.

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H used to work for a cc community. If you were resistant to moving to a higher level of care there was a process that essentially forced the change. In one case, an “independent” resident was storing clothing in her oven. Her apartment was so cluttered there was no path to the bathroom and she injured herself several times navigating there. Her living conditions presented risks to other residents and she was made to move. The process was clearly spelled out in the contract, but of course the community prefers that the resident make that decision.

As much as I would like to count on D, she has her own life. I’m making deposits at two communities. Hopefully I’ll never need to move in.

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My MIL was forced to move from independent living at her continuing care community to a locked dementia ward after one instance of wandering. Family forced it as well as facility. She was absolutely miserable and sad in that ward for years. :frowning:

I felt like there had to be other options. Each family is different though.

Kind of hoping home-care robots will be a thing when I’m older so I can stretch out the independent living. My kids can monitor me from a remote camera or something, lol.

Edit to add: apparently virtual assisted living is becoming more popular…

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I am so grateful that my Dad decided to move into a CC facility. He should have done it much earlier. And the point about the desirable ones having a waiting list is well taken. You can’t expect to get into a good one immediately unless you are extraordinarily lucky. The place he’s in has a beautiful dining room, good food, a gym, a coffee shop, a chapel, parking, and beautiful meeting rooms. They offer every service you might need, including escorts to medical appointments. He is now in AL there, but we were able to have a nice little 95th birthday party in a private dining room for him last weekend on the premises. He is wheelchair bound and has dementia, but he enjoyed it. He no longer has a good sense of time or place but he was able to understand, for a while, what was going on. All of his descendants and their spouses were present.

We plan on moving into a continuing care place no later than 80, regardless of what our health is. We’re doing it for our daughter.

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My mom was lucky twice.

Her first IL opened up 3 studios.

Sort of bullied mom into accepting the studio which she thought she would hate but ended up loving since she was never in her room. She could have moved into a one bedroom soon afterwards but there was no need.

A IL opened up near my sibling. Mom toured, wanted to wait but was persuaded that all the units would be full. So she moved. It was very fast!

If a place opens, you need to be ready to move. Or there will be a waiting list.

My sil, her parents toured a place, weren’t ready at that time and now when they want to move, there’s a waitlist.

I know that it’s an issue with older parents because making a decision takes a long time. We were lucky that mom was willing.

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We had to eventually just force my in laws into a retirement community for their own safety. (Their mental acuity was fine but physically was a different story - they kept falling, couldn’t get up, hard to get speedy help etc, plus just unsuitable for age garden terrain etc). They were very reluctant to leave their home and in the end - after an incident where my MIL spent an hour lying in the sun in the yard waiting for someone to be able to help her up - we just bought a unit in the complex and had a hard conversation with them that they didn’t have a choice anymore. However- it is a really lovely community and the big bonus was that my one SIL is the nurse who runs the onsite clinic, so they had a family member onsite almost all the time, as well as immediate help when they needed it. It was a lesson we have taken on board, that we will be in a suitable place well before we think we need it.

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Thank you for saying this. I know people want to give their parents agency, but when their living situation becomes dangerous safety trumps all.

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It’s difficult to imagine ourselves needing assistance, and clearly most of us won’t realize that we need help when the time comes. My mom was in her early 70’s when her executive function was affected. The idea that I might be in a similar situation inside the next decade is hard to fathom. OTOH, my in laws were okay on their own (with some hired help for yard and house cleaning) until 90. I guess maybe 80 is a good compromise for considering an alternative living situation, but I don’t know if I will be ready then. Fortunately, we live near our D, who will most likely be brutally honest with us.

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But, 80 seems young to me as H is in his 70’s and very active. Both sets of parents needed to move out of their house in early 90’s. In their 80’s they continued driving, volunteering, shopping, paying bills, etc. (My father and H’s mother died in their 80’s, 70’s of cancer.) This cut down on expenses for retirement, as they owned their home but hired out for yard work.

I don’t feel ready to pack up and move to a retirement community. H’s cousin did this and likes it. A friend did it and greatly regretted it as the occupants were very elderly and in early cognitive decline.

I am taking it one day at a time- with an open mind.

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Genetics definitely plays a role so that’s reassuring. What scares me though is having seen this a few times - aging is not necessarily a slow and steady thing. You can be fine, fine, fine, then just slightly less fine … and then (depending what hits) you can suddenly go downhill very fast.

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My mother and 3 of her siblings died at about 70. I am 62, and I don’t see myself ready for a retirement community yet, but if I’m going to be on their trajectory, maybe it’s time. Dementia also runs in my family, so I do worry.

ETA - I am not planning on looking at retirement communities anytime soon, but agreeing that we don’t see ourselves as ready sometimes and then it’s too late.

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I agree that the type of community matters immensely; my grandmother moved to an Aegis facility in the 90s that technically was an independent living community, but in reality operated like a sad nursing home. It was institutional, rather sterile and lifeless, and it was depressing to see her there.

Where my folks live it’s a wonderful mix of people from all walks of life, who are incredibly engaged with lectures and discussion groups, a robust library, concerts, and a full slate of resident-organized interest groups and activities. There’s a state of the art woodworking facility, art studio, gym and pool, fitness classes, art and interesting people. It’s a non-profit with a waiting list of 3-5 years. I hope to have an option like that when the time comes.

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Hopefully not too off topic, but for anyone concerned with care as we retire and age, I’d like to recommend Atul Gawande’s book “Being Mortal”. An excellent read.

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There’s nothing remotely like that where we live or in the adjacent larger city. Even the nicest and most expensive options near us are rather depressing. We’re willing to pay for a better facility, we just have to find one.

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My friend is dealing with this right now. Her mom has been living by herself in a small house, not far from my friend. She has been active in her church, able to make decisions, and was just recently beginning to slow down a bit. Then she fell and broke her hip. Suddenly, she is no longer able to return to her home and live alone. Friend was lucky to get her into a very nice rehab/assisted living facility in our town. Her mom is doing okay, but she didn’t expect to be in this situation, and she’s sad about it. By the way, she’s 102. I guess we’re never quite ready.

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