My freshman DD started band in fourth grade and loves it. She dropped most of a rigorous ballet schedule to focus on it, nd now band is her main EC: marching, concert and jazz ensemble. She loves the social aspect, the activity, and the creating of music in a group. But…practicing at home…not so much.
Marching band entailed so many after-school practice hours that she didn’t need to practice at home in the fall, but now, for concert/jazz band, she should. The high school teacher doesn’t require practice logs (as the middle school teacher did) and I have no idea what he tells them to do. She also just began weekly private lessons with a college professor specializing in her instrument, who I’m sure will have higher expectations than her previous private teacher (who retired.) I don’t want to helicopter with the teachers now that she’s in high school.
This week I’ve been having some conflict with her about practice times and she’s balking. I think my expectations are very basic and reasonable (I know she doesn’t want to be a music major…she’s enthused but not super-passionate) and I’m flexible about those crazy days when she has a lot of other things to do and fifteen minutes is all she can humanly fit in. But I do think on days when she seems to find lots of time to play on her phone and computer she should lean in to a decent regular practice session since this is her chosen EC (plus, those private lessons are expensive!)
So, just to know what’s typical in this situation, I’m curious to hear about your band/orchestra child’s habits and to get a feel for how much at-home practice is “normal” for a H.S.band kid in good standing in different schools and communities. Do you insist on their practicing, or at this age do you just let them decide how proficient (or not) they want to be?
Our house rule was that if we were paying for. Private music lessons then daily practice was expected. At least 30 min. Which is really minimal for any kind of serious musician. And it is disrespectful to teacher not to be prepared. Of course there were some days it didn’t happen but as a rule there was regular practice.
My son plays in several school bands as well as private lessons. He never practices at home and leaves his tenor sax at school. There’s enough band practices for him to be a good musician.
Short term you might get her to practice more by getting involved but long term it is counterproductive to her own motivation and your relationship. I would tell her it is up to her. And the teacher will deal with lack of preparation. (Watch the film on Paul Katz to see how a stellar teacher handles this)
By high school, I think it’s on the student to practice as they see fit. They will soon figure out there are consequences to not practicing enough (private teacher unhappy, not making the top band/orchestra, etc.) and work harder if they’re really motivated. My daughter who’s a music major and was in several ensembles in high school practiced every day. My daughter who is in orchestra but not interested in a music career practices 3-4 times per week for 30-45 minutes outside of school and lessons.
In HS my D played with the orchestra 5x/week, had a private lesson once a week, and on average practiced 3 times at home per week. We actually switched from a high intensity teacher to a lower key teacher when she was in HS – she was about to quit violin until I realized the teacher was making her miserable and anxious. She went on to play throughout HS and at her college (she did drop to second violin in college as she had little time to practice) both of which were wonderful experiences.
@compmom, in a roundabout way, I suppose, or at least she expected and seemed happy to have the lessons. The other students playing her instrument in band also take lessons from this teacher and she knows she would fall behind if she didn’t take them. (There is good camaraderie in her section and in the band in general, BTW…any competition among students is good-natured.) For the past two years she took private lessons from a former middle school band teacher that she liked a lot…but he “graduated her” to this new teacher recently because her instrument is not his primary instrument and he felt she needed more specific instruction.
And really, I’m not trying to insist on more than 30 minutes per day…I would like to see more of course, if that were through her own inititive, but I think 30 minutes (on non-busy days) is not an excessive expectation 4-5
days per week…Especially as it comes easily enough for her…she also played Suzuki violin for many years from a young age (again, nothing excessive…rarely more than 30 minutes per day 3-5 times per week and she always liked her violin teacher, practiced willingly and still likes to occasionally play her violin)…but her band instrument is now HER choice…I guess the point I’m trying to make is that music is not a struggle for her as it has always been a part of her life…in fact I think she too-easily coasts with it because she’s taken music for so long …her band music is more basic that her violin level used to be…and I’m a little disappointed she’s not putting in that bit of extra time to become more proficient without being reminded or nagged a little. She’ll say she’ll practice later (while playing a computer game) and “later” eventually becomes “too late” with the press of homework, or she’ll say that fifteen minutes is enough, that she played through her material. She has a very loud instrument that can’t be played late at night (close neighbors!) after other homework is done.
Normally we have a very good relationship and she’s a fine student …I care more about intrinsic learning, good habits and the concept that a person benefits in proportion to effort invested more than I care about grades or status, BTW! And if she wanted to anything else instead of band, that would be OK, too…I just want her to embrace (with a modicum of dedication) whatever is her choice and not waste too much time on passive screen time.
My violinist son was pretty self-motivated and practiced just about everyday with hardly any prodding since he was 5 years old. He was motivated by his genuine love for music but the environment of numerous competitions, chair auditions in orchestras and other auditions in later years also played a large role in motivating him to put in the hours. However, when he turned junior in high school, with full IB academic load, community service and ECs, he had to sacrifice his daily practice routine out of necessity. Instead of daily practices of at least two hours a day (5 hours during summer, spring and winter breaks), he often had to resort to only an hour A WEEK on average. Because of more than a decade of disciplined hard work, he was able to get away with no practice in his orchestra participation (no one knew), it was a different story when it came to his private teacher. A weekly no practice routine followed a weekly apology routine to his teacher. Fortunately, he was very understanding as most of his high school students were very ambitious about applying to top colleges. The same thing in his senior year. The point is that each individual with his or her unique goals and circumstances dictate one’s dedication to music.
The thing to ask yourself is what is your own motivation as a parent? Do you want your child to enjoy music for music’s sake or do you want her involvement in music as a vehicle toward a placement in college? If latter is the primary motivation, then you should realize that being involved in music for high school students is so common today that, unless your daughter already shows promising signs of top conservatory level musical accomplishments, her involvement in music will not make any difference in her college chances just as an average varsity tennis player will not make any difference likewise. If she’s not an accomplished musician and has no inclination to be one, then I’d say it’s wiser to just let her enjoy musical participation at her own pace even if that’s very little.
It really depends on the kid and the school music program. DS (who had lots of music background via piano lessons) almost never practiced at home. He did have LOTS of opportunity to play at school… alternate day band class / 90 minutes. He’s a natural musician and still had lots of music honors and awards. Similarly DD (not a pianist) also mostly did her violin “practice” in school orchestra classes. It never occurred to me to interfere with either kid - if their teachers were happy with their work, I didn’t sweat it.
I guess what I am saying nets out to “Don’t sweat the small stuff” …
You could try the music forum here. I think at high school level it’s okay to stay out of it. But that’s from the perspective of a parent whose kids are much older ( and one is in a doctoral program for music). You sound like a great parent and she sounds like a great kid. Just let her enjoy music and establish priorities for herself and it will all work itself out in the next few years.
@TiggerDad, good questions and advice! I don’t expect music to be a vehicle for college (except in the normal sense of demonstrating a well-rounded person who has outside interests and involvements…she will definitely present as a balanced and well-rounded person rather than a pointy and/or intensely accomplished one. She’s capable of a reasonably selective college but we’re not pressing for any status per se…)
I guess what I want is for her to enjoy musical participation for its own sake, maybe not expecting passion and wholehearted dedication, but still, motivation beyond the most casual level. (She did have this dedication to marching band…I think with her dance background she found the movement aspect compelling as there was complex choreography in the marching program.) I suppose I could be dampening that enthusiasm by interfering bu OTOH, I think that music (like most things that take work…athletics, dance, theater, art foreign language) takes a certain degree of skill to begin reaping he most enjoyment from it and any skill takes regular practice. No one should have to practice hours per day without an intrinsic drive to do so, but it still seems to me that there should be some regular practice if it’s worth doing at all. I mean, if she were on a swim team or a track team, she would have daily laps to do that would take more than fifteen minutes per day (whether she were a recruitable athlete or dong it for recreational reasons) so I’m not sure why music shouldn’t have some baseline minimal practice, too.
My son did marching band, jazz band, and private lessons 1x per week. He did not practice regularly at home, but he did extra practices at home leading up to winter & spring concerts. If kids want to be on the top bands and lead chair, they will realize that they have to practice a lot at home but if they are enjoying band and doing well with classes and grades then don’t stress and choose your battles.
Thanks, everyone, for your comments. It helps put things into perspective and it doesn’t seem as if she’s falling outside of the norm for band students not aiming for a conservatory. In fairness, she does fairly often do a 30-minute practice, just not as consistently as I’d like. I guess I wish she would lose herself in it and not notice the clock ad keep going sometimes. If I’m truly honest with myself, I’m a little disappointed that she doesn’t have a more intense intrinsic drive and I should deal with that within myself. She’s a lovely girl and I should count my lucky stars that she IS as healthfully balanced as she is …not to mention a kid who never has to be reminded to complete her homework …our culture’s growing expectation that every student should be so driven and passionate may not really
be such a great thing…
My daughter has been in band for all of her middle school and high school years. She is in marching band, concert band, and jazz band now in her senior year. I never make her practice and she rarely does it at home. None of my four kids have I ever made practice when they were in band. I will admit to fudging the practice charts :^o . I think some kids are naturally talented and some really need to work at it. I say let your daughter decide when and if she needs practice.
One of the things I miss about my daughter being away at college is her daily practicing at home. It was her beautiful noise that always filled our house. (Though I am sure the people who live in the apartment below us don’t miss her music!). She played several woodwinds and piano, and practiced each daily unless she’d had a lesson for one of the instruments that day. She is not a music major, but is in concert band, orchestra ad plays in the pit for musicals at her college. She still takes private lessons in her favorite instrument, flute, and she still practices several times a week outside of rehearsals for the band or orchestra. On the day after she got home for Christmas break she couldn’t wait to get onto her own piano.
When she was in high school, however, she was one of those students who could get her schoolwork done at school, and rarely did homework at home. I am not sure how much she would have practiced if she’d had hours of homework every night.
We didn’t even discuss practice time with our kids…who each studied two different instruments, and were in an auditioned children’s choir. Practice time was up to them.
But we did pay for a lot of private lessons…and if the teachers ever indicated that the kids weren’t practicing enough…that would have ended. And the kids knew it.
We were given advice years ago about this…basically told…if the kid is never practicing…and doesn’t plan to…and isn’t progressing…just stop paying for private lessons.
If this is your goal…then leave her alone. She will figure it out soon enough. As kids progress through HS in concert band and things like that…those who know what they are doing rise to the top…and the others don’t. Some kids are perfectly happy…and enjoy just being in the group. Others want to be first chair. That takes work.
And for the record…marching band music is not particularly hard music to play.
Adding…our kids are 30something…and still play their instruments. One is a professional musician. The other does it as a hobby. Even the hobby kid continued lessons and ensembles in college.
I don’t really enforce practice times. My son has 6 hours of jazz band and orchestra rehearsals after school and a weekly lesson, plus he’s about to take on pit orchestra, and he has extra music because his school orchestra is traveling to play in Europe soon.
He also needs to work on all-state audition pieces and solo and ensemble festival. He practices, but probably not as much as he should and he is currently stretched a little thin!
Jazz is a shiny new toy to him (and it’s obvious if he messes up as a bass player) so that is getting most of his attention. I need to bug him a bit more about the audition!
Thia is a kid who will play in some capacity in college and maybe pursue a music minor.
My daughter practiced her sax about 10 minutes a night unless she was preparing for a special event such as an audition or recital. We were never able to get her to practice more.
She ended up making the all-state honors band twice.
Sometimes, the “natural consequences” thing just doesn’t work out.