My S was in marching band, concert band, orchestra, two jazz bands, and brass ensemble.Also an ad hoc low brass group. I never heard him practice. He won the Music Department’s Award at graduation. He must have been doing something right!
You could ask her to practice 3 hours a week for a month and to "self evaluate " how happy it made her, how her lessons felt, how when enjoyed it.
At some point, the desire needs to come from within. If her main goal is to keep up with her band obligations and she can do that without practicing, well… But if playing better really gives her great joy, she will make the time. I hear you on wishing she had more commitment on this front, but take comfort in the fact that her band activities will allow her to at least mark time, so to speak, until she figures where this fits into her priorities.
I paid for lessons for one kid with talent and motivation who ended up in the music field, and I also paid for lessons for one kid who was not talented but LOVED band, though he never touched his instrument in college. I never asked either to practice. I have seen parental involvement in dictating practice time totally backfire- one talented pianist quit because her parents were too involved in this. This is an age when autonomy is important, at least in regard to parents.
The teacher will deal with the issue of progress. It is true that some musicians I know don’t really practice that much but still excel, including some who are soloists way past high school.
I didn’t speak with teachers either so there was no way for me to know if there were any issues. I did trust my kids to tell me when lessons weren’t working or when they weren’t needed.
interesting discussion. We’ve never imposed practice time. My D18 plays 5 days a week in band, has an hour long lesson with her private teacher, and then has orchestra rehearsal for 3 hours every weekend. She may do 1-2 hours beyond that at home, but it’s totally up to her. Since her first college audition is a week from today I am expecting to hear a little more practice this week.
I used to give private lessons, and it is frustrating when students don’t practice. You can tell. I’d tell your kid that you won’t continue to pay for lessons without some practice. I’d set it at maybe 1.5 - 2 hours/week. Then stick to it. Not all students take lessons. Not all students care if they are in first section or the highest musical groups. I’d leave deciding her level of ambition in that respect up to her. But I wouldn’t pay for private lessons for a kid who won’t practice.
Of you are paying for private lessons…your kiddo should be practicing enough to improve on the assignments given by the private lesson teacher.
TBH, one of my kids was an awesome sight reader and this caused no end of issues. Her private teacher quickly figured this out…and the kid was given pieces to learn that really were far above what most kids at her level were given…because she HAD to practice those. She didn’t have to practice the other pieces very much.
My kids seldom practiced school band music at home. They rehearsed it ad nauseum at school…and that was plenty. They NEVER practiced marching band music…at all.
They DID practice for precollege orchestra and wind ensemble…and jazz ensembles…because for those, they were expected to come in KNOWING the part. The rehearsals were for getting it all right as an ensemble…not banging out notes for each section. Same with things like All State…the musicians were expected to KNOW their parts before the first rehearsal.
Marching band music is usually fairly easy. It has to be so you can march and play at the same time. I don’t remember ever devoting significant practice time to it (and I was 1st chair in my instrument in all the ensembles I played in). I practiced a lot in general because I loved it – but little of that time was spent on school ensemble music overall. Much more was on private lesson or solo & ensemble pieces. Agree that all state or other ensembles with limited rehearsal time had higher practice expectations.
My son never practiced at home, he would go to high school very early and the custodian would open the band room for my son to go in and practice. He was very comfortable in that room - he did that through 4 years of high school, marching band and concert band. He marched first 2 years in college and has taken community band (no tryouts, everyone welcome) in spring just to keep playing but no stress or required practices. In high school he also took private lessons 1x a week. However, playing in the church orchestra is what made his quality go up dramatically, making district and all-state (tryouts anyway). They only practiced 1 hour before the service each week and his sight reading went through the roof - if youre familiar with some of the old traditional Christian hymns, they really don’t have much of a beat and I can’t figure out where the tune will go next (obviously I am not a music person) since it doesn’t seem to go where you logically think it would. There are still a number of high school kids that play in our orchestra, that actually go to other churches as well (different denominations) that are doing the same thing.
Thanks again for all your comments! The range of views will give me much to think about.
@thumper1, I think the facility for sight-reading is part of my “problem” with her music (if it is a problem.) Since she has taken violin since she was a pre-schooler (and reading music soon after that) reading and knowing the actual notes of the band music is super easy for her, so she thinks that playing a piece once or twice is enough. But that doesn’t do much terms of improving the quality of the tone. Also, her instrument rarely gets to carry the melody so I think that leads to some boredom in solo practice. The new teacher has added some practice exercises and maybe as time goes on he will add new actual pieces of music independent of the band music, so I hope that that will help with the boredom factor and challenge her in a good way.
Another thing that’s influencing my thinking…the private teacher’s at-home lessons are a 35-minute drive each way and the lesson an hour long. The teacher lives in a remote location so there’s no point in my going anywhere during the lesson. So, taking her involves more than a two-hour use of parental time…which I’m HAPPY do do…I do not resent it in the least and am grateful for her have a skilled teacher …maybe I’m wrong to think this way but on some level I think that her practice time should be somewhat commensurate with that effort so, as @thumper1 suggests. I think at least 1.5- 2 hours per week (with ebb and flow flexibility during heavy homework weeks) is not unreasonable.
But I’ll wait and see how the experience with the new teacher goes for the next few weeks and maybe her motivation will kick in on it’s own.
Time to LET GO! I think you are being very unreasonable.
Son’s instrument stayed in school most of the time. He did well- qualified for state with his solo as a sophomore, was second or so among his instrument in a good orchestra… However, he did not do as well with the state solo performance because I think he had mastered the piece once and was done with it. He did do some private lessons one year because he wanted to. He did not take it to college but now has it with him since we relocated/downsized.
A musical instrument is to be enjoyed. It is part of the enrichment we offer our kids, whether or not they become adult musicians. Take away the time required at home and let her choose. Do you insist she spends a half hour daily doing Math? Social Studies? Other subjects? Keep the music experience pleasant and not a chore. Once she has reached a certain level of competence the time spent to improve beyond it becomes not worth the time. As she advances in HS she will find a lot more other homework and activities to occupy her time. If it comes to the point that she no longer enjoys it and/or her grades in the class fall the response is to ask her if she wants to drop it, not that she needs to spend more time with it.
No, it is not time to “let it go” if the parent is paying for private lessons (and committing time on top of that). The student can continue their instrument without lessons. But lessons are a waste of everyone’s time (including the teacher’s) if the student doesn’t practice.
@wis75 She DOES do math and social studies at home…it’s called homework! Band at school is a graded class like any other class (not that she has trouble with actual grades) and I think a little after school practice is not necessarily unwarranted. Jazz band is two one-hour sessions after school each week in winter/spring and she gets a grade and school academic credit for that. I never expect at-home practice in the fall during marching band, because in addition to the daily band class they spend hours and hours over several days of the week and weekend practicing and competing at tournaments. She loves marching band and never complains about that degree of time commitment even though it does make squeezing in the academics difficult in the fall. Doing a few 30-minute practices per week in winter/spring is a drop in the bucket time-wise compared to the time devoted to marching band.
She is a girl who used to willingly do 15+ hours per week of ballet (plus considerabe travel time to ballet) plus violin lessons/practice plus her band instrument throughout middle school and maintain all As. She and I both agreed this was way too much…she dropped the ballet (except for local no-pressure drop-in recreational dance classes when she wants) and violin (dropped for the most part…no pressure from me there) in order to focus on band (her choice EC.) So finding the time for 30-minutes of practice (far less than the drive time to ballet used to be.) is not an issue. That 30-minutes would otherwise be spent texting or other screen time/sitting around…I have no problem with her relaxing every day (heck, I relax plenty) but she doesn’t always need 3 hours of relaxing when 2 1/2 hours would be plenty IMO.
I think you want there to be homework for band class. For a decent musician, there really isn’t much.
I don’t think inthegarden is “being very unreasonable” at all. We as parents have all gone through this with our music students. As parents investing our time, effort and money to support our children in musical pursuits, we at least do wish that such efforts aren’t being wasted. For my violinist son’s weekly lessons, I drove an hour one way, and it wasn’t fun during the winter season. For his weekly orchestra rehearsal, I drove another one hour one way, and another for their frequent concerts and other events. Another hour of driving just to rehearse with his piano accompanist and another hour of driving to a monthly studio recital. I drove for his tennis matches and volleyball matches that were also often an hour drive away. I called myself the Executive Chauffeur of our family.
When my son returned from a six-week Heifetz International Music Institute’s summer camp when he was a 13 years old, he contacted one of his camp buddies, a fellow Asian-American violinist. My son found out that as soon as his friend returned home, he was told to practice violin for 5 hours. I laughed out loud at this and told my son NOT to touch his violin for a full week. Is it really unreasonable to expect a high school musician to practice 30 minutes a day? No, I don’t think so. The right question is whether even interfering with one’s child is being effective or detrimental, not how long or how frequent the practice. The young boy who’s been forced to practice 5 hours a day by his demanding parents as soon as he got back from an intensive summer music camp may be doing great now at a conservatory somewhere or may have smashed his violin to pieces and given up while being in safe distance from his parents at a college somewhere. The critical thing is to know one’s own child’s psychological and emotional makeup and use that knowledge and insights to motivate and support. It’s up to each parent to know when to back off and when to encourage. Even the greatest motivating speech can be poisonous when given at the wrong time.
My son is currently taking a gap year before starting his college in the fall. He drastically cut down on his violin practice. Instead, he’s teaching three students. The latest student he accepted came to learn violin and left the lesson as a piano student. He figured out that the young student wasn’t really interested in violin but her attention went immediately to piano. I applauded her parent for supporting the child’s natural interest rather than projecting the parent’s own wishes and desires upon the child. I DO wish that my son would go back to practicing his violin on a daily basis, but I keep my mouth shut knowing that he needs his own time and private space to figure out when to go back to his usual routine. There’s time for everything.
Thank you for this post - I have enjoyed reading all of the comments.
My daughter’s teacher told me that if a student is serious about their band instrument and hopes to be competitive at the all state/district level, they should be practicing at least as long as the duration of the lesson a day (in my daughter’s case, 1 hour). This is not happening on a consistent basis in my household! Leading up to all state, she probably put in 45 minutes a day, but in general I would say 20 minutes a day a few times a week.
Our son was in the band. We just asked him to show respect for the director and his bandmates by practicing. He was fairly diligent.
Thanks, @TiggerDad and thanks @intparent @wis and all others. At least I see there is a great range and no one norm. I will think hard about pulling out, especially if that will be counterproductive in the end and cause a power-struggle. But if she doesn’t show an inner desire to do more then I may have to think about ending the lessons or change them to monthly (if that’s possible) instead of weekly.
For me, I guess the issue is not so much music practice itself, per se, but just the balance of how time is spent. I do want to be in the range of reasonable and flexible while still encouraging spending enjoyable quality time on SOMETHING regardless of the external prestige of the activity. I’m not trying to get my child into a top-40 or top-anything school or profession, and I’m not looking for parental bragging rights for her accomplishments. Fortunately, our simple lifestyle, low cost-of living area, and the fact that DH’s parents and mine were frugal and left us enough money that we can comfortably send her to college means we don’t have to pressure her to be recruited for anything or win merit scholarships to be able to go to her school of choice in the future. So, her ECs are truly her choice.
I do fear, however, what the pull of social media, constant texting. computer games is doing to our kids with regards to how they spend time, and the life habits they form. I only got DD a phone a year ago (long after her friends.) She’s not on Facebook but like most kids spend hours on Instagram, YouTube, Sims, etc. I don’t want to be an extreme (my parents kept me away from everything other teens were doing so I know what that’s like) but I think there’s got to be a middle ground of spending quality time doing/learning/being actively engaged. I don’t stipulate what those things are or whether or not they bring prestige…they could be music, athletics, reading, learning to cook, walking the dog and teaching it tricks, doing arts or crafts at home, journaling, or even watching the clouds and getting in touch with nature and the inner life …but I think it is a waste of life for a teen to spend so much down time on addictive electronics when there are things to learn and enjoy…in this case, the things SHE has identified that she wants to earn and enjoy. When adulthood arrives, there is so much less time to develop things like musical skills as a hobby…but once learned, they can be fit into a busy adult life (like being able to participate In a community music ensemble for fun) and I’d hate for her to throw away the opportunity she has now. Teens don’t always have the perspective to know what opportunities they’re giving up and may regret later. But if I’m going overboard, I’ll definitely pay attention to that. It really is helpful to know that a lot of H.S, band students aren’t doing daily one-hour practices or anything…Thanks a lot!
If you think 30 minutes is reasonable, then that’s it. It doesn’t matter if other kids don’t have to practice at all or if they have to practice 2 hours a day, you set the restrictions for your child. If you want to restrict her online time, do that too. I’ve seen parents say that they CAN’T take away the phone because the child paid for the phone herself, or the NCP paid, or the grandparents. Really? It’s my child and I’ll set the restrictions.
If your child doesn’t want to practice the 30 minutes, give up the lessons and she can just be average in band. She might find other students getting ‘her’ spot in the Jazz band or not moving up in the concert band. That happens when people don’t practice (yes, I know this from experience!).
I am totally with you, OP, that if our kids have time to do SM, they sure should have time to do some “more productive” activities, such as practicing music. Lol. But I am afraid Snapchat/instagram r feeding into more “instant gratification”. DS is not into SM but is more into games, which could be equally if not more addictive. But that is a discussion for another day.
DS does two instruments and takes two private lessons, also does youth orchestra, his main practice times r over the weekends, more if there r competitions/auditions. we try to say it is not the amount of time u practice that is important, but the quality of the practice. That being said, there r so many talented and hard-working young musicians out there, and not putting in certain hours to daily practice, does show. He is ok with it. So I just let him be.
@inthegarden I never suggested a specific amount of practice time. That was someone else.
My kids determined their own amount of practice time. My excellent sight reader didn’t give two hoots about improving her quality…she played an underrepresented instrument (two actually) and was first chair for a LONG time in both her HS and precollege ensembles…and then in college. Her lack of practice, if there was one, did not hold her back…at all.
And like I said…some kids are perfectly happy to sit in the back playing the third chair parts. They are still part of the ensemble…and the social and group camaraderie parts.
Really, unless your HS wind ensemble is highly competitive with the vast majority of kids serous musicians, your kid who doesn’t practice much is likely the norm.