How much should I try to influence/direct my kid's college decisions?

Applying to College
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This is a most unusual post…at least for me. But I am struggling with this and there are lots of parents of college bound students on here with different opinions, including some regulars whose opinions I have valued in the past. So, I’m just going to go ahead and put this out there to get opinions. I will say I would request and appreciate kindness rather than snark or whatever…please…this is a difficult topic for me.

The biggest part of the question is would you/should I consider restricting where my child is allowed go to school? Some sub-questions are related to how to handle senior year courses and college applications.

I have a rising senior who wants to study art. They will likely be admitted to their top choice school…as will almost everyone else who applies. I’m not opposed to them studying art but would feel a whole lot better about this choice if they seemed more driven to create art. They DO have a portfolio and it is reasonably strong (based on pre-reads from several schools)…but most of the portfolio is pieces created in art classes and for assignments. It’s not really something they seem to do in their free time by choice. In contrast, I see a lot of their artsy friends who are always doodling, conceptualizing, making things, etc. Many of those friends are currently struggling to curate their top 15-20 pieces to include in their college portfolio, while my child is still working to try to complete enough portfolio-worthy pieces to apply to school.

Art school is SO specific. I really wish they would cast a wider net right now at the tender age of 17 and at least consider broader options. There are plenty of liberal arts colleges with strong art programs, and we have visited several. And yet, my child is set on going to a dedicated art school. We have also looked at some larger universities that have dedicated art schools and my child has agreed to apply to the art school at a few of those, even though they really want to go to a particular, stand-alone art school.

So that brings me to…since they know where they want to go, and are likely to be accepted, they want to just apply to their top choice (which has rolling admissions) and forego other applications and also want to scale back on academics this (senior) year. They have already completed almost all of their academic graduation requirements, so they could theoretically take almost all electives this year. Grades are good and test scores are excellent - not that the top choice art school really cares.

Should I force my child to apply to some non-art schools? I mean I could…but I can’t imaging “forcing” someone to go to a college they don’t want to go to. So I basically think I should just let them apply to the school they want to. And since they are extremely likely to be admitted…how much effort should I expect/require them to put in to applying to others schools “just in case”. And should I let them reduce their academic course load senior year since the schools they intend to apply to are unlikely to care much?

Without going into personal details, the cost of college is not really a factor in this decision, other than in the most general sense (no one likes wasting money). I acknowledge that we are incredibly fortunate to be in this position.

While our particular situation may be pretty specific to us, I still think there is an underlying more generally applicable question…for students who aspire to attend schools that they are virtually certain they will be admitted to…how much effort do you still put in to apply to more schools/take rigorous courses, etc? How so you handle senior year courses and effort when you don’t feel like you have to impress schools with your senior year course work or grades.

I know that you (dear CC readers) only have as much info about our situation as I’ve given you here. If it seems like a “no-brainer” decision to you one way or another…please trust me when I say it doesn’t feel like one to me. And I’ve thought about it a lot. I do tend to be a person who sees multiple sides of issues though. I mention this because I think the most useful advice I could receive would acknowledge the pickle I feel like I’m in rather than dismiss it. Having said that…I would appreciate any insight you might have about how to think about this as we are about to embark on college applications next week…gulp.

Thank you!

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You can set a budget, and insist that your child stick with it. Someone who graduates with a bachelor’s degree in art is not going to be making big bucks, and insisting that they do not take on any debt at all (and also do not mess up your retirement fund) is perfectly reasonable.

One daughter was very interested in art, and at some point in high school won a minor aware from a local newspaper. We went into town and saw all of the other art that had won awards. My daughter said to us on the way home: “How can I compete with that”. There was a LOT of very excellent art done by high school students in the area (never mind the rest of the US or the rest of the world). Art is a tough way to make a living. This particular daughter then decided to try something different, and then something different again, and eventually settled on the right path for her. It did take a while, and this is not unusual at all.

Which tends to make me wonder whether it is possible for you to set a budget that would not result in a disaster if she got half way through a bachelor’s degree in art, decided to do something different, and then started a bachelor’s degree almost from scratch at a different university.

I would not worry about how much time it takes for a student to find their passion, and find a passion that results in a employable job. I would worry about paying for the education that is needed along the way.

And life is not a race.

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Thanks for the reply. I especially appreciate the thought about not worrying how much time it takes to find their passion. Thank you. :slight_smile:

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I can only answer this part. If a student doesn’t need to worry about impressing colleges, they can still focus on making the most of the educational and other opportunities available to them in high school, for the inherent value of those opportunities, rather than to impress colleges. This can be freeing for some students! And for some students, I think it can even help them to excel academically, if it helps them to approach high school with a sense of freedom, confidence, and personal choice.

My kids know several students from their HS who deliberately chose to to go to community college for 2 years and then transfer, primarily for financial reasons. Since they were already planning to be transfer students when they applied to 4-year colleges, they knew that their junior and senior high school coursework, grades, and extracurriculars would not matter (other than meeting graduation requirements), but they were still motivated to get an education. One of my D’s friends in this category ended up as one of the top students in her class and her high school record would have been competitive at highly selective universities… she still chose community college, because this way her family only has to pay for the last 2 years of college. This student really enjoyed high school and got a lot out of it!

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This is really helpful, thanks.

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So I will start with what I think I would do.

Applying to the rolling art school and just ending all other application plans and going if they get in? Fine.

“No-brainer” is not the right term, but I believe at this juncture, you really need to let your kids make their own decisions. If they are mistakes, OK, people make mistakes. But sometimes they won’t be mistakes, even if what happens is not what they expect either. And in any event, this is now their life, and they have to be making these choices.

By the way, I am personally a big believer in the idea that not everyone has to go to college. Not right away for sure, and not ever in many cases. And not necessarily because they are not capable, it can easily be because more school of that type just doesn’t make sense for them. And again, people can and do revisit a decision not to go to college later in life, but maybe they will not, and that is all fine with me.

Art school of course IS more school, but in a way it is a similar sort of decision. If a traditional college is not the right decision for them right now, and art school is, then cool. Maybe that will work out great. Maybe they will revisit that decision at some point. But again, all fine with me.

As for the rest of HS, I feel the same way as tamagotchi. I would want my kid to continue to reasonably challenge themselves in a variety of ways, to give every class they take their full participation, to respect the teacher by doing assignments on time, and so on. I would NOT make them take every AP available or anything like that, but I would want them to be taking seriously the idea of making good use of the educational opportunities available to them.

And it might well help to separate these issues in your mind. Obviously selective colleges like well-prepared kids, and so there is a connection between the classes you take and selective college admissions. But to me, the point is always the actual education.

So I would in fact just let them decide their next step, but I would also . . . let’s say strongly encourage . . . them to still be getting a good HS education, understanding that doesn’t have to mean the maximally competitive college prep curriculum.

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First off, I just wanted to say that your dilemma is legitimate! You sound like a loving parent who’s thinking intentionally about the long game, and wanting to make sure that you do right by your kid. It’s a tough position to be in, and these aren’t the kinds of decisions that there are clear parenting rules about!

Just to share our deal … Our kids (especially our class-of-2025 twins, and especially one of them) are very artistically gifted, and they floated the idea of art school at some point. My wife and I are big fans of the liberal arts philosophy, and steered our kids away from pre-professional programs. Our position was that a BFA would be its own kind of pre-professional degree, and, so, it wasn’t the kind of degree we supported (for our family, obviously). We told them that if they wanted to get a double major or a minor in a studio art while getting a BA/BS, we’d be okay with that, but that they’d need to have some other academic focus as their primary objective. I think having it fit within a larger philosophical framework made it easier to talk about, and easier to hold the line on, rather than us coming across as dismissive of their interest. So you might think about what your family’s overall philosophies/values/priorities/narratives/alignments are, and try to fit the “art school?” conversation into that larger framework.

I get that finances for your family are not a friction point, so there’s maybe been little need so far for your kid to get a job during the school year, but a thing to consider might be encouraging them to take on a part time job in a coffeeshop or similar, with the connect-the-dots moment hopefully arriving for them that artists often end up needing to work in food service / hospitality / retail jobs to make ends meet, and that they might find more satisfaction in developing other skills with their undergrad years. Not that employability should be the goal, but as a means of highlighting that channeling all of their time and energy into their art (or into an art school) might close doors that would otherwise give them more options.

If they/you haven’t read Austin Kleon’s work, you might check out a few of his books from the library. He talks a good bit about art VS work, and art AS work, and I think his general sentiment is that when you make your art your living, it’s very, very easy to ruin both.

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One approach I would recommend is that of keeping options open, with the idea that if your child wants art school at the end of the process, great! As an educator, I have seen first hand how much students grow and change over the course of their senior year. What students want in September of senior year may not be what they want in May of senior year. If they would be receptive, I don’t see the harm in encouraging them to apply to some liberal arts schools/universities in addition to the art school. This would hopefully give them choices, and they could then make a final decision by May 1st. Along those lines, I would not suggest cutting back senior year courses to the extent that it would close admissions doors to the liberal arts schools your child has visited/has shown some interest in thus far. In sum, I’d say encourage them to keep doors open.

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@Bruno99, from your post you come across as a very thoughtful and conscientious parent. My answers to your questions are below, but I realize we are all different people, different families, and there is more than one right answer. Best of luck to you and your family as you go through this.

Like @DadTwoGirls, I would restrict my child to attending schools that would require no loans. Additionally, my child would need to understand that we have a certain amount of money allocated for higher education. My child can attend a more expensive school for fewer years or a less expensive school for more years, but the amount that we will contribute to the education is finite. My child needs to understand that once the higher ed/starting life budget runs out, that they will need to be able to support themselves financially.

The schools would also need to be accredited by a reputable organization, and almost certainly be a nonprofit (I’m not as confident about whether all reputable art schools are nonprofits, so this might not apply in this case). Moreover, the school should be financially sound enough that a closure before my kid finishes would be highly unlikely.

I would. I wouldn’t require them to apply to a large number of schools, but I’ve heard too many stories of a kid wanting one thing at the beginning of senior year and then wanting something very different at the end of senior year. I would want to guarantee that my kid had choices to select from should my kid’s thoughts on the future change. Since your family has found some larger schools with stand-alone art programs, that seems like a reasonable compromise.

I would require them to put in a reasonably solid effort. No typos or grammatical mistakes. Their common app essay should be satisfactory. It should be clear that they aren’t trying to blow it off or throw red flags through any portion of the components.

Since your kid currently has little interest in applying to other schools, I would focus on schools that require nothing more than what is required on the Common App. So even if my kid would make a strong applicant to Elite U that requires 8 different supplementals, that school (and any like it) is off. The idea of having the “just in case” applications is to make sure they have options. So maybe a large, medium, and small school, or maybe a large school in a college town school and then large and medium schools in a city, or a school further away and a school closer to home. But basically covering a couple of bases so they at least 2-3 options come spring.

I agree with the others upthread that they should take advantage of the educational opportunities they have. When I was a senior in high school, I was seriously contemplating a career in journalism and had been the editor of our school paper for two years already. When it came to scheduling, though, calculus was at the same time as journalism. Although the CC crowd would have been shouting from the rooftops to take calculus, I took the journalism class instead and have never regretted it.

Additionally, I only took a half-day senior year (we were required to take at least 4 classes). A few days a week I took a class at a local college in the afternoons, and the other afternoons I worked a fast food job. So if your kid is interested in doing a half-day program, I am not opposed to it. I would say, however, that there should be some productive use of time if they are getting out of school early.

So whatever your kid takes, they should take seriously, but it should also fit what they’re interested in.

(Obviously, make sure your kid fulfills the requirements for admission to college, should they not be the same as those for high school graduation. If there’s something they still need to take for regular college admissions, they should definitely take that.)

ETA: And others made similar points while I was writing!

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Another voice to say that I think your concerns are very valid.

I think at 17 it’s hard to predict the future and I would want my child to have as many opportunities as possible if they pivot. Kids even change ideas between the beginning and end of senior year.

I would also encourage applications to BFA programs and those art programs in universities.

In terms of senior year classes, I would still expect 4 years of all core classes just to make sure if there is a last minute pivot (or the need to transfer later) they aren’t closing any doors.

Sending some cyber hugs your way. I’d be struggling in your shoes too.

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“Art” school might not be as restrictive as you think it is. We have friends whose twins both ended up at a very good art school. They both applied because “they liked art” but found other passions and pathways while there. One fell in love with the chemistry part of pottery and it opened up a whole new world for her. She will be opening a pottery repair business where people can send her broken pottery, and she will repair it in a historically accurate way. The other is doing something with computer animation for large companies’ websites.

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Money was issue for my kids so the schools they could even apply to was limited (although one was an athlete and that opened up more options IF they have money for her). Both wanted smaller schools, like 2000. That’s where I inserted my views (parent card) and said no, you aren’t going to a school with 1200 kids. Both were ‘one and done’ for application, but both knew if something went wrong with the One and Only school, she’d be taking a gap year. That almost happened with the engineer because of a mistake in financial aid but it was fix and worked out.

One found an engineering school with her team offered, a large merit scholarship and a large athletic scholarship, so she was done. It was much smaller than I would have liked (3500 on campus) and after a month she visited FSU and said “Oh, I could have done this and liked it” but she was fine where she was. By senior year she was tired of small and would have liked larger (and I got to have a smug “I was right”).

The other would have liked SCAD but it just wasn’t in the budget. She liked art but started as a theater major at a small OOS flagship. She switched from theater to art history when the school added that as a major. The problem was that the art history major required a lot of beginning art classes and she didn’t have those, so it would have added at least a year to her college, and again, money was an issue. Switched again to plain old History, but was able to get a ‘certificate’ (basically a minor) in museum studies and took every art history class the school offered. She then got a masters in history from the same school and her thesis is Displaying Tibetan Art in the Western World (and no, shocker, she doesn’t have a job). She loved her time and tomorrow is taking me to a museum exhibit on Cambodian art. She really knows her stuff (churches, architecture, traditional art museums) and is happy but poor.

The other thing I required (along with size of the school) is she had to limit her student loans. I knew she’d never have a high paying job. She owed a little over $20k and I’ve paid some of it, but she has to pay most of it. She’s married and has a supportive husband and they ‘live poor.’ She does work at a museum but makes VERY little. She did have a fully funded grad school program (and lived poor, and worked at Starbucks, and worked as a TA, and worked other odd jobs for the department).

I think your job as a parent is to be supportive but realistic. What does he want to do with a degree in art? Does he want to teach? Can he get a teaching certificate at the same time (maybe at a local college with summer classes)? Does he understand you are paying for college but not post college? My kids were very clear about that (no cars, graduation tours of Europe, down payments for houses)

The engineer lives a much much different life than her sister the history major. Engineer owns a home, travels the world (off to climb Kilimanjaro in Sept), shops at Lulu lemon. The history major would LIKE to do all that, but can’t. Honestly, history major doesn’t regret her choice. She loved college, grad school, and can run categories on Jeopardy! She’s happy.

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Okay - I don’t have an art student -so I won’t pretend to know much about that aspect. BUT do have a kid who saw three schools - picked one, applied there, got in (rolling admissions) and is now attending. His senior year wasn’t particularly demanding, but he had fun.
I think it was a good choice for him. First year has gone fine, and he’s settled into a major -although without a specific career plan yet. So - if any of those aspects - one school, rolling admissions etc – is the concern – then I can tell you I’ve seen that be perfectly successful.

One other thing to think about -and I think about this with my kid as well – a college degree is a college degree. Many jobs don’t care what you majored in – and so if they spend 4 years making art -and then take a job that simply requires a college degree - then that’s a perfectly good outcome too!

One thing you might consider -for your own sanity – take a look at ALL the majors at the art school. I’ve noticed that at specialized art schools like that -they actually have quite a bit of ‘directly employable’ majors – art education, museum/non-profit backgrounds, some even have some business elements. So if they start to get more career oriented, there may be majors they can switch into. (Not that you can’t make it as an artist, but some other paths are easier for employment purposes.)

Finally - and this is probably NOT your kid – if you think your kid will go to art school, then complain there are no jobs and plan to simply move back home and live off you -then you can have a ‘tough love’ talk that art school is fine -and you support them -but you do expect them to find employment after college (whether in art or not). Again -probably NOT your kid! But we had to have a similar kind of talk with my eldest --and she is doing AWESOME now -but there were some bumps in the road!

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Have you had this discussion with your student? My rising senior wants to do architecture, and the question of whether or not to do it at an art/design-focused school has come up. We had a discussion about what other majors they might pivot to if they changed their mind, and while some might be design-related, they would likely be with a tech focus or, alternatively, kid might pivot to physics. Given that, they could see quite clearly that being at a more traditional college would be better for them. Does your kid have other interests? Do they have a plan B for if they decide, like many do, to switch their major once they’re in college?

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My D23 is a Studio Art major at a liberal arts college. She’s picking up a Communications degree now as well. Honestly, she has some learning difficulties in math that also limit her abilities in science, so she wasn’t going to be able to excel in STEM anyway.

I look at it like this, she’s great with people, works hard, and is generally a good person. A college degree is probably a plus and it’s definitely a benefit in life skills for her anyway. She’s going to be a junior this year and doing well, but struggling to find internships and is getting a little nervous about the future. Perhaps not as nervous as her parents. :slight_smile:

My husband was a Music Theory and Composition major and now runs a global marketing department for a large corporation. I have a finance degree and worked in book publishing. Often our education decisions at 17 are just the beginning of what our life path will be.

So, with that said. I would be certain that art school is affordable, that she knows the possible limitations of an art degree, and that she understands that she’s expected to pursue some kind of career path other than artist who lives in mom’s basement. I would help her research what some of those paths might be. And then, assuming you can afford it, I’d let her go. Senior year should still be core classes with effort, no exceptions.

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There’s a lot here -

Is it budget related? You could always set a budget - and that budget could be different based on school type. I want to support you but my money isn’t going to get a good ROI at x school. You could even suggest a double major at school Y.

Is it - if you change your major related, you want breadth. You could always say, I love you and I am concerned that if you decide art isn’t for you - then what?

Is it social - I’d like for you to have a diversity of friends and experiences.

Really, I think as a parent, as a supporter, your ideas matter. I think the issue is - if you’re not up front and you come after the fact, after they’ve gone through the work of applying - it’s tough - because why wasn’t this sorted up front.

Yes, you could cause strain - but if you explain the rationale you have and remind them you come from love, you’ve lived and want to set them up for the max opportunity - as a parent I think that’s fair.

You could also say - it’s their schooling - and I’m willing to support their desires 100%.

Neither is wrong.

Good luck.

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How much actual painting, sculpture, performance, design, has your D been exposed to? For some kids, it’s a real awakening to realize that artists are often multilingual, comfortable with various media, astute interpreters of history, well versed in the origins of political movements, etc

Get high quality reproductions of Picasso’s Guernica, the Chagall murals at Lincoln Center, maybe a Seurat or another early Pointillist work and hang them in the kitchen. Talk about them. Why did the Impressionists cause such a stir? What political message was Picasso sending? What literary and religious traditions do you need to understand before approaching Chagalls work? Why does art matter anyway?

If it were me, I’d shift the focus away from “art school is too narrow” and start to emphasize the importance of a broad education for a successful artist. How do contemporary sculptors or painters stand on the shoulders of the masters who came before them? Why do Totalitarian regimes try to stifle artistic expression? What are the works that Hitler banned as degenerate and what was he afraid of?

Start there. Art is life altering. But great art is more than a well rendered portrait or still life. Get her talking about Why art, why me.

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I had a kid who was seriously considering art school as well as liberal arts schools. Junior year I would have predicted she go to art school. She did a summer course at an art school and enjoyed it, but I think that helped her realize that the LAC approach was one she preferred. I say this to demonstrate that kids do change their perspective as they face graduation and beyond, so I think that your concerns about perhaps your kid considering other options may be valid. Some kids clearly do have a passion and one calling is what they see - others could choose among several paths. Only the kid can know if they have a “calling” - and sometimes they change their minds. So while I don’t have any specific advice, I’d urge your kid to consider applying to some varied programs, such as an art school in a university, or in a liberal arts college. If at the end of the day they don’t, that’s ok, but I’d urge them to strongly consider an application. Also, others’ points about learning for learning’s sake strike a chord – I’d urge my kid to take classes that interest them. That doesn’t mean they should take the most rigorous college-prep courses, but should take classes that will broaden their horizons in high school. I’m not sure what that is, but there may be some college-level art classes they could take, or english or foreign language. Best of luck as you navigate an exciting year.

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My D23 daughter is a junior majoring in music at a conservatory attached to a LAC. She loves performing and wants to do it for the rest of her life, but she is also realistic that she might not be able to make a living at it. She is now actively pursuing other options as possible backups. This has led to some very interesting and exciting opportunities.

As a recovering helicopter mom, my very humble opinion is that you should support your kid’s decision. You’ll be amazed at how much they change between now and college graduation. And, if this turns out to be a mistake in the end, they’ll learn from it and that one event might well be the start of something amazing.

That all being said, I think you should encourage them to add at least two more schools to their list. It would be nice to have some other options in place in case they change their mind midway through their senior year.

Good luck to the both of you!! I also have a rising high school senior, so we’ll be going through this process with you!

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I have nothing to say that others haven’t already said extremely well. I just wanted to chime in and say I see you OP. I see the struggle you are having and I get it and I think just thinking through this will put you in a better place, regardless of what decisions or actions your family takes.

Hugs to you.

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