How much time do you spend with your elderly parents?

Parent Cafe
21

<p>

I don’t think you can override the parent’s decisions until the parent becomes legally incompetent. The law of natural consequences will always be in effect, however. So the stepmom in somemom’s story is about to feel the consequence of her financial carelessness. She’ll get by. She is darned lucky that she isn’t going to be moved to another facility.</p>

<p>More natural consequences: if the parent chooses to live several thousand miles from any children, he or she will have to see those kids when the kids can arrange it. This might mean that children can’t respond immediately to a medical emergency, and the senior will have to cope independently until the kids arrive. </p>

<p>On the role siblings play - lots of opportunity for resentment and estrangement there, unless people communicate early and often. If you’re the sibling who winds up doing everything for an older parent - speak up and let your sibs know what you need and expect in the way of sharing parental care. Sometimes people who live at a distance just aren’t aware of how needy an older parent has become, and how frustrated the main caregiver might be. Don’t be a martyr about it - you can request financial help, ask about sending a parent for a month-long visit if mobility isn’t an issue, have a rotating schedule with siblings who come into town a few times a year. Respite care in an assisted living facility is possible in many cases and can pave the way for the senior to consider moving in permanently. Especially with grandchildren - tell them what the senior needs. Most college-aged grandchildren would be willing to mow a lawn or take Grandma on errands, but they won’t necessarily think to do it. I know a woman who seethed with resentment for years when taking care of a parent but steadfastly refused to tell her sibs what she thought they should do to help - she said they should “know” and that she shouldn’t have to ask. Never spoke to her sibs after the parent passed away, either. She apparently wanted the moral high ground more than an extended family.</p>

<p>One issue we haven’t talked about yet is senior driving, which should probably have its own thread. Here is an area where I think children are obligated to override a parent’s decision - we can’t let the law of natural consequences result in serious accidents or worse. Fwiw, many seniors can continue to drive safely well after age 80. Most seniors will limit their own driving to daylight hours on familiar roads at less-busy times of day. At a certain point, many seniors are relieved to give up a car and all the expense/worry it entails. But then we need to think about how the senior’s transportation needs will be met. And also remember that they will be us in 20 or 30 years. It’s good to have a plan for where you want to live once you aren’t driving anymore.</p>

22

<p>momma-three: we heard all the same arguments you heard… doesn’t want strangers in the home; doesn’t want to move, etc. Finally, my parents had just started considering an assisted living facility - my mom had chronic health conditions and we all thought she’d die before my father (who was 82 when his own mother died at 101 and was very functional 98% of the time). They were pretty adamant about not having anyone in the house, but then my dad got cancer and they had to start utilizing some form of help for the last couple of months, increasing in time as he declined. I think having those aides in the house helped my mom see that it wasn’t such a bad idea, so after my dad died, she continued to have someone come in several times a week for four or more hours. She stayed in the house for another year and a half before deciding she didn’t want the responsibility of owning a home anymore (despite the fact she had paid people to practically do everything). So she moved into an assisted living facility and her life changed so much. Without the responsibility of a home, she was able to reserve her energies for things she wanted to do. She enjoyed having company (got a place with two bedrooms so people could still come from out of town and stay with her, although the place did have a guest room for overnight guests of residents), enjoyed getting out more, etc. She was more active then, than she’d been when living at home with my dad, who wasn’t interested in doing some of the things she was and who was still doing much of the labor around the house. </p>

<p>Mom lived in this place for a year and a half before she died (pipmom, she was at the facility across the street from West Houston Medical Center) and I think may have had regrets that she didn’t move sooner.</p>

<p>A lot of this is easy for me to say, as we live 1200 miles away and I always deferred all these decisions to my brothers who were in Houston. When I did go down there, I made sure my butt was running non-stop, taking care of anything and everything mundane that they’d grown tired of doing. Money was not really an issue, unless she had lived for many more years; besides, she and my dad had bought long-term care insurance and with her disabilities, she qualified for this place. </p>

<p>The only down side was that, when she had her last hospitalization (right before she died), she was taken to a skilled nursing home for rehab, as she was not strong enough to go back to her apartment. But she was only there a couple of days before she was taken back to the hospital, where she died two days later. She absolutely hated the idea of nursing homes, as many people do. I really have a bias towards facilities that have a continuum of care so as a person’s level of care changes, they can at least be on the same campus.</p>

<p>Good luck, and as many have suggested, you must, must, must take care of yourself.</p>

23

<p>Our situation is complicated by the 3rd sibling (besides my sister who does everything and me who swoops in every 4-6 weeks but checks in almost daily with sister and mother) who is, literally, a street person. Our brother has ruined life for our parents for 30 years, and continues to be a source of grief. It’s your typical codependent situation, complete with alcoholism (the brother). He isn’t allowed in my sister’s/mother’s home, so he meets our mother for lunch when she goes to the hairdresser (not every week- just when he needs money). He lives on the street or in shelters between blowing his Social Security disability checks on motels and booze. Fortunately, he can’t get to mom’s home by public transportation. When he “disappears” for days or weeks, Mom is distraught and it aggravates medical conditions. He frequently turns up in the hospital after “falling” or something like that. We didn’t expect him to live this long (51 now), but somehow he has, despite brain injuries, amputated toes from frostbite etc. Our mother is in denial about what a complete loser he is, but she and my stepfather understood that one of the conditions of them living with my sister was that he couldn’t come there. They had previously gone for stints with restraining orders keeping him out of their home, but they always relented and let him come back. He got violent and destructive when drunk. They had hopes that it would change, but it never did. One of my favorite moments was the day before my stepfather died in the hospital (sudden, quick illness), my sister, my husband and I drove to the slums of Chester, PA to give my brother a check which he allegedly needed for a “deposit on an apartment”. We met him on a street corner and my sister rolled down the electric window of her black luxury sedan and held the check out the window. It completely looked like a drug deal. At the time, even in our grief, it struck all of us as hilarious and we laughed until we cried. Of course, our brother’s “landlord” wanted cash only (yeah, right) and we couldn’t go there and deliver it ourselves because he "was only home from 5-7 pm). There’s one in every family…</p>

24

<p>My MIL is not paralyzed, but cannot walk or stand with stability. She needs a lift to stand, a guide to move to the chair/toilet/etc and help sitting back down. The biggest issue they have is that she forgets and does stand up by herself-usually in the middle of the night- and when she falls it is very difficult to get her back up and she is a mess; a few bathroom falls have been bad news, but they persevere in their choices. She is not competent, but he is and he wants to stay in his home and be independent as long as possible.</p>

25

<p>Great thread–
We just moved my mother in law into a “senior apt”–they provide 2 meals a day—and best of all–a community of wonderful neighbors. She is 90 and she is the only one who does not know it!–she lived with my sister in law for 15 years- both of them needed a break- grandma was not happy at all to move to the apt—but 6 months later she loves it. The social aspects have been the best. Before the move she was really cooped up with my SIL- and only went to church on Sundays—she had acquaintances but not really friends. Now her mind is so active (lot’s of gossip and drama in the 80+ world!)—so that is great. My SIL is still there everyday to bathe her etc. So grandma is REALLY not independent.</p>

<p>We see Assisted Living on the horizon–but it costs $$$. These places are great–my parents are all on board to go there when the time is needed. My grandmother lived in one for years and thrived—so I think that is why my parents see it as a great option. Check your “I need to stay in my house” ego at the door. This is the real world!! I am lucky they are okay with going someday! But it is all about the $$$$. Plan ahead–get a roommate.
My girlfriends want to buy a house and plan to live like the Golden Girls—one person one house is an expensive option! But a big “sorority” of pals may be the ticket!</p>

26

<p>My widowed father-in-law, in his late 80’s, had to give up his condo when he failed to rehab successfully from a broken hip and became wheelchair-bound. He moved into an assisted living facility with his “significant other” last month, has a nice apartment and good food and has already joined three poker groups! think OP needs to visit some of these facilities and discover for herself that they are not just for the cognitively impaired. OP’s schedule is horrendous and unsupportable–martyrdom serves no one well. </p>

<p>Now my own particular rant on the subject of elderly parents: H’s parents moved to Florida from New England 15 years ago. When health issues struck repeatedly, the logistics were dreadful. We also hated the constant pressure to visit, when we could not afford to do so very often either time-wise (with limited vacation time, we didn’t want to spend it all there) or dollar-wise. There is an element of selfishness when parents choose to retire far away and then feel entitled to regular pilgrimages from the rest of the family. I don’t think H and I will decamp to the south when we retire–if we want to be a continuing part of our kids’ lives and expect their support when problems arise, we’ll stay closer.</p>

27

<p>Mom is visiting us now for 3 weeks to give my sister a break. She started living with her 15 years ago when my sister liked the live-in baby sitter while BIL was deployed. Now the situation is reversed and it is becoming a burden. She is not disabled yet, but getting blind and hard to move around, 2 story home, etc. I think we will be beginning to have that conversation soon, too. </p>

<p>My aunt moved my grandmother and great aunt to an independent living facility when my aunt could not take traveling between MI and PA all of time. This is not the same as assisted living. After initial resistance they settled in and loved it. Very nice dining room with served meals, like a restaurant instead of a cafeteria. bus to get around. Hair salon in building. Bridge and library there. Light housekeeping available. Emergency response on site and someone to check on them. She had mental acuity until she died at age 97. At the end her companion that helped with daily living was even allowed to stay with her instead of making her move to the assisted living area. It worked well all around.</p>

28

<p>Our family has been very fortunate. Two elderly parents have chosen life care (continuing care) communities. One already lived near a child, so was able to stay in her comumunity (Philadelphia area). Moved in her early 80’s. The other moved from the Northeast to the Southeast to be closer to a child, warmer weather, and a truly spectacular lifecare community. Moved recently in her late 80’s.</p>

<p>Both choices were made by the parents on their own. Both are now in their late 80’s and have thrived in the independent living sections of these communities. They each use the communal transportation for shopping, go on trips and participate in evening activities that neither would do when they were living alone.</p>

<p>When, and if, they need assisted living or nursing care, they will go to the next level in the facility. </p>

<p>We are fortunate that both can afford this option, made the decision on their own, and are in facilities that seem to be well funded, well staffed, and beautifully maintained.</p>

<p>Children living near by visit at least once a week, sometimes more often. Those of us living further visit once every 2 - 3 months.</p>

29

<p>Some life care communities have been involved in bankruptcies,etc. You can google things in the Washington Post and Pitsburgh newspapers. There are some families that have lost tens of thousands of dollars.That is a concern I have. But yes, they can be ideal if the sponsoring organization is secure.</p>

30

<p>Sorry, I spelled Pittsburgh wrong.</p>

31

<p>OP: My brothers and I recently moved my parents into assisted living. One of our first tasks was to understand that there are at least 3 different types of community living for seniors. At the beginning of this process, we had thought that our only choices were for them to continue living in their home, or go into the dreaded “nursing home” with the crazy drooling people. Not so:</p>

<p>Independent living: Food, housekeeping, activities, and some transportation are provided. No assistance with the tasks of daily living, or with medical needs.</p>

<p>Assisted living: Food, housekeeping, activities, and some transportation. Also assistance (if needed) with bathing, dressing, getting around, medication management, and other tasks of daily living. My parents’ facility has a “memory care” wing for Alzheimer’s residents, but it’s separate.</p>

<p>Skilled nursing (AKA nursing home, rehab facility): This is a sort of halfway-house between a hospital and living independently. There are nurses, physical therapists, and doctors on staff, and some medical care is provided. </p>

<p>It’s tough, but there comes a time when we adult children need to make decisions for our parents that are in their own best interests, and our own --decisions that they will not like. We had to take my dad’s driving privileges away because we believed that he was unsafe to drive. He was very hurt and angry, of course, and refused to admit (or maybe didn’t know) that his driving skills had deteriorated. We had to take the keys away, for his own safety and for the safety of innocent people on the streets. I won’t lie; it was very very tough for everyone, but it had to be done.</p>

<p>It sounds like your dad may be a candidate for independent living or assisted living. I’d recommend you tour a couple of facilities; I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised. And then you need to move him. You have a life to live. You cannot be at his beck and call all day every day.</p>

<p>One of the big benefits of community living, as far as I’m concerned, is that I’m NOT their “911” any more. When Dad falls, or Mom feels sick, they call the AL staff, not me. In essence, I am free again to be their daughter, not their caregiver. </p>

<p>He will fight you, and I think this transition is especially difficult for men. I’ll warn you ahead of time – he knows which of your bottons to push, and he will push every one of them, so steel yourself. But bottom line, you simply cannot provide him with what he needs any more. Do the right thing, knowing that it’s best for both of you. Please feel free to PM me if you want.</p>

32

<p>I didn’t live in the same town as my in-laws (now both deceased) or my parents, but I can’t imagine that I would spend hours every day with my parents. My sil spent what we all thought was more time than necessary with her parents, but even she had home health aids for them who took care of the cooking, bathing etc. She still checked up on the parents every day, but not for hours at a time. My mil was adament that she didn’t want assisted living, so even when she was in full-blown dementia she stayed home. Once she died though my fil went to assisted living and was much happier. He had people to talk with and play games with. He was much less isolated.</p>

<p>Please hire help, it’s worth it.</p>

33

<p>I have a sibling who has been amazing in sharing the responsibilties of care. He visits with my dad for breakfast every morning before he goes to work. He also has him to dinner at least three times a week. He rearranges his work schedule to take my dad to the dr. at least twice a week. I usually get the third dr appointment. We moved him to our town from the city over two years ago. </p>

<p>What I am noticing is how my dad is trying to pit one of us against the other in terms of what we do for him. He is constantly telling me how wonderful and great my brother is for this or that and he also fails to ever mention to my brother that I am there everyday cleaning the urine changing the sheets washing down the wood floors in the bedroom daily. I shop for him and do the laundry everyday at my home and bring it to him. I wash the breakfast dishes prepare lunch and clean the mess that he leaves behind (open coffee can and drop half the can on the floor, pour juice and its on the floor and dragged all over the apartment. He uses a hand held hospital urinal container during the night and I don’t even want to tell you what I find in the morning. </p>

<p>I have my own business but my hours are fixed. I am spending my pre work hours with dad and when my night is done I am back over with him to see how he is doing and clean up after whatever needs to be done. My father is very close mouthed about his finances and I have no clue what his assets are. He has a house that is being rented which just covers the expensive area that we moved him to. He was always wonderful to my children with his kindness and babysat for them a couple days a week when they were little. He had limits such as not feeding them or diapering so I had a woman that would look in on them several times a day to assist. My dad was never generous financially with his grandchildren or children although he was a world traveler. I am feeling like my dad has a selfish streak because he clearly wants more and more from me and my sibling. My brother is very doting but it is obvious that he is burning out from dealing the dependence that my dad has on us. I would have loved to have heard my dad say just once take a trip on me you have not been away in years and instead he will say something like “you don’t enjoy world travel do you”. I have told him that world travel is not a possibility with four children in college but he still makes these types of comments. He will remind me of the glorious trips my brother makes and tells me "how well rounded his children will be because of the wonderful experiences they have provided. This just happened this afternoon again so please excuse me for reeling again.</p>

<p>When my father does pass his estate is divided so that my nieces and nephews of my deceased siblings will receive a share. The esstate is in a trust and the capital gains will be huge. Unless he has other assets there is not that much money. The other grandchildren see him maybe three times a year when I have the holidays at my house. They have not offered or considered even giving us a break so I know when the day comes and I have to write that check to each of them I will wish that every penny was spent. It has really only been the last few months that have been taking a toll on me and I am not really sure what has changed or why I feel like this. I just know that the longer I am around his sadness and at times his meanness I just want to hide. I was the caretaker for my sibling before her death, my mom because my father was not coping, and my father in law who had alzheimers. This all occured at various times of my childrens young lives and the demands were huge with four young kids. I just think I am tired and yet I feel so guilty for feeling this way. I also wish my dad was at least open about money so I knew what I could afford to help us all out in regard to his care.</p>

34

<p>It is time to talk to my brother. He just had a two week vacation and has a second home he goes to every weekend. He told me about his two week vacation this summer to a wonderful location. Two of my sons only had one week off this summer and wouldn’t you know that it is the same week as my brothers trip. I need time with my kids so that life is normal and not just wake up take care of dad, go to work till 10:00P.M and go back to dad till 11:00. My brother has had the nerve to tell me that I should reduce my hours at work so I have more time for the family. He is independently wealthy and could live to be 100 in the same lifestyle he is living now. I can’t do and won’t do what he asked because besides tuition I am thinking about retirement at some point. When you work for yourself retirement is completely self funded. I have never asked for anything from anyone in terms of emotional or financial support, not even when my husband lost his job and things got tough. I resent being told that what I want to do for my kids or myself and husband should be reconsidered. My children are wonderful to their grandfather. They call him from school at least once a week and my daughter will go over to his apartment and have tea with him and watch a movie. She has even cooked for him a few times. Maybe I am really angry and burned out as a result of my brother but he is so good that I just don’t want to see that happen. I wish he understood that his sister is not the multi millionaire that he is.</p>

35

<p>Yes, momma-three, money does make it easier doesn’t it? It takes money to hire aides and assistants and go into assisted living type places where there is supervision and socialization. My FIL passed away last month after two long years in a nursing home, that someone earlier described as the place with “crazy drooling people”. That hurts when someone you loved dearly lived there.</p>

<p>My FIL was neither crazy nor drooling. There was absolutely nothing wrong with his mind. It was his body that betrayed him leaving him wheelchair bound with no use of his legs ( from a stroke years ago). My MIL was not able to take care of him at home.
They lived on Social Security checks from month to month. There was no money for aides. Her children could not afford to pay for that kind of 24/7 care either. There was no choice but to go on Medicaid and enter a nursing home. </p>

<p>MIL drove 60 miles a day every day for two years to visit him. She felt so guilty that he was there. There simply was no other choice. </p>

<p>Now that he is gone, we wonder what will happen to MIL. She is in pretty decent health now and does not want to leave her home but she wants DH or one of his three sibs to come visit way more often. They retired to a resort town about 12 years ago, one that is hard to get to and not close to us or DH’s sibs. We are seven hours away. She won’t consider moving. I can tell it’s going to be a big prob. as time goes by.</p>

36

<p>No wonder you’re burned out, momma-three - you’ve spent so much of your life taking care of sick or elderly people, or your own small children. I imagine you have a very nurturing personality. People who know you perhaps expect you to take the lead in care-giving because you’ve always done it, and are good at it. Glad that you can see it’s time to meet your own needs.</p>

<p>I strongly urge you to see an attorney with expertise in estate planning and trusts. If your father has means - the house he’s renting to someone? - that money should go to fund his care. Perhaps your dad has always had a self-centered streak, and is perfectly willing to let you make major sacrifices to take care of him. As long as you and your brother are always willing to be there for him, your dad has no reason to make a change. If your dad’s manipulative and self-centered behavior is more recent, it could be related to dementia. Personality changes are common.

Have you specifically asked them for their help, or said “This is wearing me out - I can’t do it anymore” to them? Instead of feeling bitter toward them for what your father wants them to have from his estate, you could possibly gain some immediate support if you ask for it. I know it’s natural to feel resentment toward people who seem to have let it all fall on your shoulders. But a calm conversation (or maybe a letter or email) really could result in a positive change.

Please - consider looking into respite care at an assisted living facility for that week. Do it for your family and your own health. Your dad can put up with it for a brief, finite time, and just might discover that he likes it. The staff at a good facility will have heard your story a million times and know how to manage your dad’s negativity.

Great insight, LasMa, and wonderful post.</p>

37

<p>momma-three, honestly, after reading all of that, I don’t know how you or the brother who sees his father for breakfast, are doing it! I was exhausted just reading through it all. I can relate to your father and his finances. My mother behaves the same way in that regard.</p>

<p>Packmom, my MIL had to be in nursing home too. We made the best of a horrible situation, and she lived there for years.</p>

38

<p>I have not read this whole thread so forgive me if this has already been addressed. There is no need to go from independent living directly to assistive living. There are places that are “Aging in Place” which have a continuum of living arrangements from small separate homes to apartments to apartments with help if needed to assistive living to more significant skilled care. So…for an active senior, the person (or couple) might live in their own little condo type unit, or an apartment. The services of the facility would be available IF NEEDED (e.g if they needed physical therapy due to an injury, they could have it there)…but there would be no help provided that was not needed. As they need more assistance, the arrangements can evolve without the folks needing to move to other places. There are activities, trips, and other things that are available to the folks who reside in these places.</p>

<p>I would urge you to look into something that has assistance AS NEEDED but will provide your senior parent with as much independence as they can have. There ARE places like this.</p>

<p>It sounds like the OP is taking a huge responsibility and it takes quite a bit of time each day. I visited my elderly mom daily when she lived here…but when she NEEDED more assistance, we arranged for her to have it…not for ME to provide it. I wanted to be her DAUGHTER…not her case manager.</p>

39

<p>PackMom, oh my goodness! Please accept my heartfelt apology for my “crazy drooling” remark. It wasn’t my intent to say that nursing homes are populated only by Alzheimer’s patients. My father recently had a short post-hospitalization stay in a nursing home and I was impressed, as I always am, by the staff, the care, and the facility.</p>

<p>In my earlier post, I was trying to mock my own earlier ignorance about options for senior living. When we began thinking about this issue last summer, our perception of the available options was extremely inaccurate. I guess we had this idea that all senior communities were basically warehouses, places where old people go to die – depressing and dirty, filled with residents who were unfit to be seen, cared for by callous and unqualified staff. Let me stress that I now know how far off the mark we were, but it seemed to me that the OP’s dad had the same misconception we had. I am so sorry for my thoughtless comment.</p>

<p>BTW, all of the communities we looked at were anything BUT depressing, and we are really pleased with the care, services, and staff at our parents’ AL community. One resident told me that “it’s like living on a cruise ship, but without the seasickness.”</p>

40

<p>

</p>

<p>Just asking for clarification. Is he the one refusing to consider an assisted living facility, or is it your preference?</p>

<p>Like a few others here who have worked with the elderly, my opinion of assisted living facilities andnursing homes has changed over the years. Believe it or not, there are people who prefer to go to one (yes, even nursing homes) because of the burden of work they create for their adult children. Also, if you just tour a few, take time out to meet with the facility’s social worker or activities director if you can, and explain your concerns to them. I can promise you that they’ve heard all of your concerns before and are willing to work with you to make the transition go as smoothly as possible. The caregivers at the facilities get very attached to the residents and some become like surrogate parents/adult children. </p>

<p>I’m just having a hard time deciphering whether your hesitation to research them comes from you or your father.</p>