<p>heyalb, your examples are hilarious, but I honestly would not put it past FAB to say those things. Of course she would say it in a way to try to be funny.</p>
<p>If I document each thing, when should I go to the boss with it? Should I tell her each and every time or let it build up for a while? It seems it would have more impact if I can say I told you FAB did this on this day, and this on this day, etc., but you did nothing to stop it. Or should I go in with a list of past grievances? I’m thinking it would be best to tell her every time so, if I can’t stand it any more and quit, I can go to the unemployment office and say I told boss 10 times and she never did anything about the toxic work environment, as opposed to I told the boss once.</p>
<p>I am on my way to go shopping for interview-appropriate clothes.</p>
<p>I do not socialize with her at all. I won’t even go to large events if I know she is going, too. I don’t want to know about her life. I never ask her questions about her social life. She just tells it all. She thinks she is impressing us by bragging about the goings-on in her country club community, but we all now have the impression that it is like being in junior high again out there. I have told her I wouldn’t live out there if I had a million dollars. She has quit talking so much about it lately.</p>
<p>I am feeling a little stronger today. I’m going to do something next week to really get her goat. We close at 5:00. The boss is nearly always there until 6:00 or later. FAB stays late, too, so she is usually there alone with boss on a daily basis. No telling what she tells the boss. On days when I work a little late to finish something, FAB absolutely will not leave before I do. She will piddle around in the kitchen or find something to do until I leave. I think she does not want me to be able to talk to the boss in private. Last month, I sent the boss an email and told her I needed to talk to her after work, if she was going to be there late. In order to avoid FAB, I had to go run an errand and come back later, or FAB would never have left. The boss is the one who suggested that I run the errand first, so apparently she has noticed that FAB won’t leave. Soooo…next week I will find some piddling of my own to do to see how long FAB will wait me out. I may do it every day, just for the heck of it. </p>
<p>FAB also stays in the office at lunchtime so there is never a time to speak to the boss privately. Of course, I could go in her office and close the (glass) door, but then everyone knows I’m having a private conversation and that just causes more paranoia. I think I will do that next week, too! hahahaha I am close enough and honest enough with the boss that I could close the door and tell her I only did it to make people wonder what I’m talking about, and then just ask her a question pertaining to my job.</p>
<p>Yep, Monday might not be so bad after all. And if FAB says anything, I will just say, “Thanks.”</p>
<p>Heyalb - Thanks for the entertaining examples. I don’t doubt that response would work because bullies like to get a reaction out of people and that’s definitely a non-response. I bet it will drive drive FAB crazy LOL!</p>
<p>POST #38: Maybe I need to grow some…courage. </p>
<p>This.</p>
<p>I am a business owner. It is surprisingly difficult to find competent, experienced, reliable, well adjusted people who play well with others. You have been in the same place for so long you are afraid of change. You will not lose by changing jobs. Quitting without your next situation arranged would be silly. I suspect that you will be surprised at the opportunities open for you.</p>
<p>Put together a resume. See what is out there. When the other offers come in (and they will!) go to boss and, if you would actually prefer to stay, say “either FAB goes or I accept this other job”.</p>
<p>and don’t be surprised if the other job offers stoke your fire and you have no desire to stay. Change is good. Maybe it is time to grow a bit. Who knows what you can do.</p>
<p>As far as FAB - the best revenge is living well.</p>
<p>OP, maybe you could try some of the passive-aggressive tactics (Thank you!) before you make a list for your boss. I hate to say it, but a list like you are talking about sounds kind of petty and doesn’t have the weight of what it feels like to live with this cumulatively, day after day. If I were a boss, I think I might find it difficult to fire someone with this kind of feedback. If you can make this person less annoying, it might be a better thing to do. And if you can’t, and/or there’s no way for you to see her without wanting to jump out of your skin, you may have to polish up that resume.</p>
<p>The documentation isn’t necessarily to show the boss. You might, at some point, but for now, it’s just for you to really keep track of what is going on and what FAB is doing. Try it for a week or two. Show it to the boss if/when you think it will make a difference.</p>
<p>But in the meantime, come up with 25 accomplishments; write your resume; get some interview clothes; and start telling everyone you know that you’re considering a change.</p>
<p>DH was in a similar situation a few years ago. He would come home so stressed, I really believed he was going to have a heart attack. Those who supported the “FAB” were benefitting financially and illegal things were going on. </p>
<p>When DH found another job, he couldn’t believe the difference. He felt as if he had left an abusive relationship. The new job has given him is a much more rewarding one and he feels he is making a difference in his field. As for the old job, it took a new boss to see the FAB for who he was and wasn’t long before he was fired. </p>
<p>OP, you’ve been at the same job for 23 years. You are not the same person you were back then. I’m sure you have what other companies are looking for. Look at this as an opportunity for a positive change. We were in a similar position financially when DH made the move. </p>
<p>You are right to be concerned about this. The “FAB” in my previous office fed my boss BS constantly – and always gave only part of the story. Once I was waiting outside the boss’ office for a scheduled meeting and the FAB was in there before me with the door open. I heard her blatantly misrepresent something about our project. When FAB left and I went in, I told the boss I couldn’t help but overhear, and I wanted to make sure the boss understood all this information on this issue. The boss looked surprised when she heard it (I think she was <em>shocked, SHOCKED</em> that “FAB” misrepresented something to her). </p>
<p>But as I said before, it was too hard to untangle the two of them from their symbiotic unhealthy relationship and I left. </p>
<p>Here is another choice - go have a chat with your boss. Don’t tell her you are quitting, but I would tell her you are thinking about looking for another position because of this. And also that you intend to start pushing back when FAB is rude or difficult in some way. Then stop being so nice. Tell FAB what you think – when she starts talking about the country club, say, “Sorry, I’m not really interested and I have work to do.”. When she says something rude, give her “the look” and say, “Why would you say something like that?” If you think it is rude, call it out and say so. I know this might be hard for you, but sometimes that is what stops a bully. They will keep bullying if they can get away with it and it causes them no pain… so make it more painful for her. This is a way to fight for what you want (staying in your current job).</p>
<p>I’d still make up a resume and take a look around, though.</p>
<p>I was just with D1 this weekend. This is the D who could talk the whole time she is with us. We haven’t seen her in a while because of her work schedule, so we got an earful this weekend.</p>
<p>D1 is due for a promotion in few months, so her desk (department) is looking for someone to do her current job. The way they get someone is to look at new analysts/associates the firm has hired and make an offer to someone they like. The new hires are rotated through various desks to figure out the fit. Last week D1’s desk got a new associate and it was D1’s job to work with her. D1 tried to show her how to do things and the new person would roll her eyes or be completely bored. She told D1 everyday that she wasn’t interest in the desk D1 is at and there were other two desks she would rather be at. The new associate would disappear for hours at a time. She also thought answer phones one the desk wasn’t her job. Meanwhile, D1 was staying later because of the time D1 was spending on training this new person.</p>
<p>This past Thu D1 just had it with the new person after she was late in turning in an analysis D1 needed. D1 in a very calm voice (but could be heard by most people on the trading floor), “I know this is not the desk you want to work at because you have let everyone know which desk is your dream desk. But guess what, your dream desk works very closely with us, so it would be to your benefit to learn what we actually do here. I have been here for 2 years, there are things I could teach you. I really hope you could get picked up by your dream desk, because if you don’t then it’ll be really awkward for you because we all know how you feel. I am leaving every night around midnight because of extra time I am spending with you. If you are not interested then lets not waste my time.”</p>
<p>D1 told her boss about what transpired next time she saw him. To this associate’s credit, next morning she invited D1 out for coffee and apologized for her attitude. I was happy D1 was able to stand up for herself and not put up someone’s poor attitude.</p>
<p>You could really get her goat. Every time she says something inappropriate, pull out a notepad and write it down. Or pull out a mini recorder and ask her nicely to repeat it. Bet she’d keep her trap shut pretty soon.</p>
<p>Can you fire someone because nobody likes working with her? </p>
<p>If I had the authority, she would never have been hired in the first place. She bullied her way into the job, too. She worked for 6 weeks at a rival office but was fired for being incompetent. She came to our office and applied for a job (we had someone leaving) and the boss did not want to hire her. FAB told the boss she would work for two weeks for free and was very pushy about it. The boss relented, although I think she paid her minimum wage or something. During those two weeks, she sat with each of us in the office to get an idea of what each of us did and for us to get to know her. At the end of the trial, each of the three of us told the boss we did not think she was a good fit. I don’t know what the possessed the boss to hire her anyway. I sometimes wonder if the boss refuses to get rid of her because she doesn’t want to admit she made a mistake.</p>
<p>Firing depends on the state. My state is a right to work state. That means you can be terminated for any reason as long as it isn’t discriminatory.</p>
<p>Since my office is small, though larger than yours, I now have the final candidates spend a half day in the office and I pay them for their time. They learn a basic data entry job, they sit with my trainer who can evaluate how quickly they learn, then they sit out where they would be if they got the job. We see how they do with the job and the other people around them also get to meet them in a more casual environment. Plus that person also gets to see us in action to determine if they could see themselves doing this work and being with these people. It’s not 100% but the last thing I need to is to have someone quit a week or two in because they didn’t like the job, nor do we run the risk of hiring someone who doesn’t at least have some minimal skills.</p>
<p>The problem is really your owner/boss. She knows all about FAB, she has to know how much you all dislike her. In an office that small there is no way not to know. Yet she has chosen the path of least resistance and put this FAB ahead of her business and everyone else. She won’t suddenly grow a spine and keeping notes isn’t going to help you.</p>
<p>One thing I’ll recommend because I have interviewed people leaving jobs after 20 something years, be ready to leave in your mind. Many people just can’t get the past out of their heads during interviews and I always end up thinking, this person isn’t ready for something completely different.</p>
<p>Absolutely. As eyemamom said, you cannot fire someone for discriminatory reasons. And that means you can’t fire someone for their race, religion, age (if their over 40), gender, family status and sexual orientation. </p>
<p>Bottom line, OP’s boss isn’t going to fire anyone, so she can just forget about it. I think her boss is an idiot, but that’s for another discussion. There is no amount of documentation or discussion with her boss that’s going to change OP’s situation. OP will either have to stand up for herself, like my D1 did, or she is going to have to just ignore FAB. I personally don’t think it would be that hard to do either. If OP were to tell the FAB off, I don’t think the boss would do anything because she is not an effective manager.</p>
<p>I am sure that the toxic boss I had was kept around so long because his boss could not possibly have made a mistake in hiring him.</p>
<p>So get those new clothes and get hired by someone who will support you, because he/she made the very wise decision to hire you and can not possibly be wrong.</p>
<p>I agree with others that your boss may not see FABs behavior as problematic. Why not set up a video monitor and capture some of this behavior? Then meet with boss and explain why you will be out of the office the next day for an interview, and show the video.</p>
<p>Not really. Just cup a small digital camera or smart phone in your hand, or sandwich it in between a stack of papers, or hang it on a chain around your neck and allow the lens to peep out. Have it running whenever FAB is expected to mouth off - like when OP goes to pick up the mail. You would not need more than a few instances to get your point across.</p>
<p>By the way, I was glad to hear you chime in on this, old fort, because you appear to have succeeded in the corporate world and would have had to run into many of these jerks over the uears. My big mistake when working for the worst jerk was staying. I should have left. They did eventually bump him upstairs, and I smiled while attending his bye bye party, but the damage he did to what should have been a nice place to work was long lasting. And the minions he hired stayed a long time, too. If OPs boss won’t see the light, then it is time to get a new job, and perhaps a raise.</p>