<p>My son will graduate in 2011 and has his heart set on engineering/architecture. His last ACT was 22, and has a GPA of 2.4 unfortunately. The whole group of his friends fell on their butts in this past junior year when it was the most important one for college. Algebra 2 seemed like the culprit that did them all in. My question is this: he and some friends want to go to Purdue (tho we live in Illinois), and just doesn’t “get it”, that he probably won’t due to the scores he has…let alone the fact that I’m not paying the $26K for out of state tuition.</p>
<p>How do you handle it when your child has applied to several colleges of their dreams get a rejection letter? What do you do then? Should I just show him the stats for admission and tell him face to face that it’s not worth our time to even visit Purdue, et al if his scores don’t meet their requirements? Anyone been through this before?</p>
<p>I would encourage a student who failed or nearly failed Algebra II to rethink engineering, or to enroll in summer math classes to gain skills in math. </p>
<p>Engineering is very hard and very math intensive. Most engineering students breeze through high school math with their eyes closed, and still struggle dearly through the mathematics in engineer.</p>
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<p>If you won’t pay the tuition, you should let him know this prior to applying. If he applies anyway and is accepted, then he knows it is his responsibility to fund his education.</p>
<p>The sooner a kid realizes grades count the better. I agree poor grades in math is a big red flag for engineering. Slightly less so for architecture. The sooner you make it clear what you can afford for college the better. And if your kid says he’ll take out loans and pay them back himself get the numbers on starting salaries for architects.</p>
<p>I would start him in a community college, but also in the meantime see how serious he can become about firming up his background in math. I would not assume off the bat that he cannot improve his math skills. </p>
<p>If you believe that the poor grades were the result of inadequate instruction, poor study habits, or inadequate background, you might want to order a curriculum such as Saxon math that is popular with homeschoolers and can be used for self-study, and set up a summer schedule for him to review the material and develop effective study habits. Then, see how he does during his senior year.</p>
<p>I told my kids NOT to “fall in love” with any schools. I let them know that the school that they attend will need to be financially doable for our family. I told them that they should not apply to any schools that they would be unhappy attending (this way I would not hear, “Oh, but I hate XYZ U., and you are making me go there” in the spring). I asked that they apply to a lot of schools. I made sure that they had plenty of sure bets on their lists. In the end, there were NO dream schools, but they both had a school that was their first choice and second choice, if financially doable.</p>
<ul>
<li>Start a spreadsheet with your son of all the colleges he is considering. Put in the range of test scores that they accept.</li>
<li>Spend some serious time helping him build a list. We spent a lot of time with the Fiske book, and you also probably have an idea of where other kids have gone from your area. Know that it is harder to find a safety (academic or financial) than a match or reach school (those are easy to find :)), so you have to look harder.</li>
<li>Point out to him that students admitted with the bottom 50% of the test scores often have some other “hook” (sports, legacy, minority status, etc.). If he does not have any of those, his chances are very slim. Also that it is easier for in-state students to get into most state schools.</li>
<li>We put D’s test scores at the top of our spreadsheet, then colored the colleges cells by where her scores fell in the range. Safeties (where her scores were above the 75% point) were green, matches (where her score was at the 50% point) were yellow, reaches (where she fell below the 50% point) were red. Other people might use different cutoffs, but those were ours.</li>
<li>We insisted that she apply to a range of schools on her list (all 3 colors)</li>
<li> We also told her how much money was available, and that if she didn’t get merit or grant aid to meet the additional need, she would have to turn down acceptance. And that she was MUCH less likely to get said aid from her red (reach) or even yellow (match) schools.<br></li>
<li> We made sure that one school was a match at an in-state school (actually an adjoining state with reciprocity) in case our finances took a true nose dive (and a divorce her senior year and the recession nearly made her need that option!).</li>
</ul>
<p>This gave her a quantitative and visual measure of her possible colleges.</p>
<p>If you can’t get your son to listen to the fact that he likely won’t get into Purdue, can you enlist a 3rd party (college counselor at his school) to push this message? By the way, if his little heart is really set on it and he is convinced he can work out the $$, then I would let him apply IF he also works hard to find other possible schools that are safeties and matches, and applies to those as well. You just don’t want him stuck with nowhere to go.</p>
<p>Yes, when S2 (very similiar stats to OP’s) mentioned an instate public univ. that he thought he would apply to, I told him right off that his grades and scores would never get him in and it would just be a waste of the app. fee. He was not in love with the school so that statement of the cold hard truth didn’t break his heart. He said “yeah, I guess you’re right” and moved on. He is at a diff. instate public now that he really likes and has said many times that he’s so glad he didn’t go to the above mentioned sch (as if he could have gotten in,lol). </p>
<p>I know kids apply to “reaches” all the time but if you know up front there is zero possibility of attendance (grades and money), then make it easier on yourself and your child by focusing on the schools that are within the realm of possibility. It’s better to get excited about a place that wants you than to be dejected over a rejection fr. a school you never really had a chance at.</p>
<p>Well, this whole spreadsheet thing didn’t stop D from applying to a much-desired reach school, and the rejection still stung. But it was not completely unexpected. And she had a very solid list of choices she was admitted to, and ended up attending a school that she loves with very good merit aid. The process worked for us!</p>
<p>I have a nephew who graduated from Purdue with a degree in Computer Engineering and a minor in Electrical Engineering. He graduated about five years ago. Prior to his freshman year starting he had to take a math placement test, common at many universities. He successfully took Calculus I in high school but he had to take a special six-week intensive Calculus class the summer before his Freshman year based on his placement test results. I don’t know if this was specific to his type of major and/or if it is still a mandatory class. </p>
<p>I believe Architects don’t have as intense of a math schedule.</p>
<p>My D had everything going for her. Valedictorian, great ECs, great test scores, and many, many years of acting, singing, dance…all to rave reviews. She is mature for her age, disciplined, attractive, the total package. So when the first rejection letter came after her college trip to do auditions for a number of schools (big and small but all with top tier acting programs), I was in shock. I hid the letter for a few days to let it sink in that my perfect child had been rejected by the school that was, in my book, #1 choice. How could they? Then, before I could show her the first letter, a second rejection came. I did eventually show them to her, but not before two others came. She had been accepted by only one school, our local university that has a good program, but not as competitive. The last letter came from Tisch at NYU…and it was finally a “fat” letter. She had been accepted to the program that she had always placed #1. It has been a struggle to find the funding, but her stats have helped with scholarships, etc. Just as she was about to give up, that last letter came. For your son, I suggest a prep course to bring his test scores up, and make sure he has at least one safety school that will accept his grades/stats. Had we not had the one fall-back school, I know we would have been in a panic by the time the last letter came.</p>
<p>To the OP, don’t discourage your son from engineering because of how he did in math in high school. He just might do fine in college. I would not start him out at a CC. Get him into real college and get him on track for that engineering degree. But make sure he chooses a college with a variety of majors so he won’t have to transfer if he changes his mind. Many colleges do have math enrichment programs the summer before freshmen year, and some colleges we visited said the “remedial” math students who participated in these programs wound up doing better than the direct admit calculus students. Many parents asked if their direct admit kids could also participate in these programs. There are many engineering majors at state colleges who do not even participate in the honors programs at the schools, even though they probably could have qualified, because they did not want the additional pressure of an honors program along with engineering. As for focusing on one school, my son was all set on one particular school for the last two years. We begged him to apply to others, and even took it upon ourselves to fill out some easy state applications. Thank God we did. By the time January came along, too late for scholarship deadlines, he rethought what region of the country he wanted to attend school in, and began looking at the other schools we had suggested. He was offered great scholarships to many and was able to choose which one was the best fit, not just the best price. Most of them were OOS, by the way, so he was still able to pursue his dream of “going away to college”. He’s in an honors program at his accepted school, only because he didn’t want to go to a big state school without the honors perks of priority housing and registration. The schools he applied to that were not large state schools, he did apply to the honors program. I would encourage your son to pursue his engineering major, but apply to some “backups schools with backup majors”, and ones that would be affordable and within his reach for acceptance. I second also the advice to take a test prep course. And also, I would advise him to take both the ACT and SAT. He may qualify for admittance and/or scholarships based on his performance on one over the other. Good luck!</p>
<p>Even though it might be a difficult discussion I think it would be best that you talk with your son now about admission requirements for the dream schools he has on his list and about what you are willing and able to pay for his school.</p>
<p>If everything on his list is unattainable from your viewpoint either due to cost or admission issues maybe you could do some research into schools he could attend. I know it helped my son when I showed him what his options will be based on his current stats and what I can afford. Once he saw what was possible he was happy choosing among those schools. </p>
<p>I don’t know what you’re able to pay for school but here are some options that maybe would work for you. All of them are located in the midwest. The least expensive would be South Dakota State which last year ran under $14,000 for cost of attendance (tuition, room and board, fees, books etc). Other schools he would either be an auto admit at with his current stats or at least have a very good shot at admittance are Univ of North Dakota, Minnesota State Mankato and Univ of Wisconsin-Platteville. For UW-Platteville he would be admitted to the school but would probably be put in the pre-engineering program. I realize none of these schools are Purdue but maybe one of them might work? or at least give you and your son (and maybe some of his friends when their reality hits) a starting point.</p>
<p>I don’t think all is lost for your son. He certainly will be able to attend school somewhere. He may be angry at first but I think once you show him some viable options he may surprise you.</p>
<p>If he is interested in architecture then there may be another path. Entry into architecture majors is frequently by portfolio and interview over grades, similar to fine arts. [Rice</a> School of Architecture](<a href=“http://arch.rice.edu/modules/indexwin.php]Rice”>http://arch.rice.edu/modules/indexwin.php)
He should investigate those and look at what summer intensive he might do to work on a portfolio. DD jokes that it is the musi’s and archi’s that bring Rice’s score averages down (Saying it fondly as a musi with a best friend who is archi. )</p>
<p>As to what you will pay for, tell him the amount and let him figure out how to work within it.</p>
<p>Rice School of Architecture follows Rice’s normal application process, in addition it requires a portfolio and interview. I am interpreting it as high GPA and test scores are still required, no different than Cornell’s Architecture school.</p>
To my way of thinking, there’s a huge disconnect between these stats and a kid who is committed to (not just
has his heart set on) a career in
Engineering or Architecture. One Algebra class Jr year didn’t account for these stats.</p>
<p>JMHO, but if this were my kid, I’d explain that Purdue and similars are out of the picture not only because his chances of admission are slim-and-none, but, more important, because I don’t see the level of commitment and achievement I would need to see to fork over big tuition $.</p>
<p>My deal would be this: enroll in CC for 1 year and show me a cumulative GPA of 3.5, including math classes, and then we’ll talk about 4-yr colleges and options. I wouldn’t be willing to pay more than CC tuition until I saw evidence of true commitment and credible achievement. I don’t mean to sound harsh, but that’s the way we roll at our house. Super-high commitment and achievement is what earns super-high parental support (financial and otherwise).</p>
<p>An absolute must! Unless the school in question is a safety, can’t miss school, you can’t fall in love with it. Wait until you get your acceptances and then fall in love.</p>
<p>I looked up relevant numbers for Purdue on Collegeboard.com (my quick and dirty number site).</p>
<p>50% median ACT range was 23-29. So his 22 ACT score doesn’t look too bad. Purdue has a 73% admissions rate, which is good. Unfortunately, only 8% of the incoming students had a gpa between 2.5-3.0; only 1% had a gpa between 2.0-2.5. Looks like his gpa could be a deal breaker for Purdue. </p>
<p>Also know that if a separate application is required for admission to the engineering school, higher numbers may be required.</p>
(Saying it fondly as a musi with a best friend who is archi. )</p>