<p>My brother is a bright student who’s taking a high level online course funded by the school. Over the past few months, he’s been developing unusual crying habits. He says that he’s stressed over getting things done “ahead of time” and not getting “everything right”. He’s cried over taking a break from “work”, not getting a perfect score on a practice set, slowing down to an “average” rate, not being able to understand a word in a book, etc. No one’s pushing him to be perfect, and no one forced him to take this online course that frankly I didn’t think was a good idea in the first place. He’s seeing school as work and not something he should enjoy, which is not normal at all for a fifth grader. I’ve tried talking to him about this problem and distracting him from his homework, but he just keeps on crying. No one else, not the teacher, not my parents, not my neighbors, has any idea how to help either. This goes way beyond the normal perfectionism that runs in the family. What do I do?</p>
<p>Sounds like he needs professional help. If your parents won’t call the pediatrician, you should do it. What he’s experiencing sounds like serious depression or anxiety or OCD. At his young age, and with a big sibling like yourself to look after him, a few sessions with a therapist may be all that he needs.</p>
<p>Edit: By the way, it’s also possible that he’s trying to “keep up” with you. Perhaps your parents have hit him with, “You’ll never get into a good school like your sibling unless you Achieve Perfection.” You can be very influential in his perception of himself as a smart, creative, wonderful person who’s totally different from you.</p>
<p>My hs junior had a tumble in grades and crying jags. Took way too long to diagnose him with depression. I should have insisted he go talk to someone sooner. He’s currently seeing a therapist and taking an antidepressant and doing <em>much</em> better.</p>
<p>This goes way beyond the normal perfectionism that runs in the family.</p>
<p>It may go beyond the perfectionism that runs in your family, but this is a manifestation of it. This needs to be dealt in counseling, and your family will likely have to participate at some point if it is determined that the family perfectionism is contributing to the issue.</p>
<p>If your brother is taken to counseling, it is very important that he be seen by a therapist that is trained to take a family history intake. Not all counselors are. This question should be asked at the time of selecting the therapist.</p>
<p>You said that noone is pushing him to be perfect, but then say perfectionism runs in the family, so I am little confused. Maybe it would be good to clear that up before everyone attributes this situation to some family dysfunction, which it may not be at all.</p>
<p>How old are you? Are you feeling responsible for your brother? Have you talked with your parents about it, and what do they say? I am concerned that another kid is taking this burden on, nice as you are to do so.</p>
<p>This kind of weeping is typical of depression, and also of the depressive phase of bipolar disorder. These are clinical problems that often require meds, provided by a psychiatrist or other MD. Counseling can help in addition to the meds.</p>
<p>If this is a matter of stress over school work or other issues, that will respond to counseling (as opposed to meds) then your parents can call around or ask your family doctor and take him to a therapist for that.</p>
<p>From your post, I would suggest that he drop the online course. Our kids have taken online courses, and they are much more difficult than regular school classes, and often don’t work at all with certain students’ learning style. They lack the interaction with a teacher that can soften the stress (or not!) of a class, and are very black and white, not good at all for perfectionists. Tests are harder. And the pace is faster, because an online class covers all the material planned (we all know that US history rarely gets past WW1!). And, dealing with the online site can be overwhelming for some.</p>
<p>Fifth grade is very early to be doing this. Why is he taking a class online, anyway? Is this through virtual high school, and is he being given accelerated material for some reason? If he is gifted, that is not the same thing as being mature, and I would slow down with this stuff.</p>
<p>But this is your parents’ worry, I think. You may be able to have an effect with your brother, but 10 is kind of young to make these decisions for oneself. I hope that your parents take the crying seriously. Depression DOES happen to 5th graders!</p>
<p>5th grader??
Talk to your parents if they haven’t noticed the problem as much as you have. Your parents should talk to your brother’s teacher and let her(him) know that this course is too much for the kid–it is stressing him out to an unreasonable degree, and it seems that it is not the right level for him. Your brother will be relieved to drop this course, or move to a different level that fits him better.</p>
<p>GOOD GRIEF!! a 5TH GRADER?? For your parents to stand by and “shrug their shoulders” and think they “can’t do anything” is nothing less than CHILD ABUSE. WHAT ARE THEY THINKING???The way your parents can HELP is to MAKE HIM DROP THE ONLINE COURSE!!! There is NO REASON for any child to be taking a course online, ESPECIALLY AT HIS AGE, if is stressing him out! It is OBVIOUSLY too much for him to handle, no matter how bright he is, and is a sure way to MAKE HIM HATE LEARNING. This is such a “duh”!!! The PRESSURE TO EXCEL, NO MATTER WHERE IT IS COMING FROM- the school, your parents, your “culture”, whatever is MAKING HIM THINK HE NEEDS TO DO THIS, NEEDS TO BE TURNED OFF for this kid, and fast!!! He needs to be reassured that he is loved for who is is, NOT FOR WHAT HE MAY ACCOMPLISH. There is a wise CC saying- “love the kid on the couch”, and maybe that thinking needs to be drummed into everyone with regards to your brother.</p>
<p>Thanks for everyone’s concerns. I’m a college freshman, and yes, I feel responsible. I took care of him when my parents were working (and didn’t join any clubs in middle school because of it).</p>
<p>“Perfectionism” runs in the family. We’re all overachievers; we all work extremely hard to do well and get somewhat disappointed when we don’t achieve our (extremely high) goals, like many people on CC. But we get over it and don’t dwell on it.</p>
<p>My brother’s taking pre-calculus, of all things. I personally told him to slow down, but he wouldn’t listen (like I said, he chose to take the class). Of course, my mom didn’t listen to me and allowed him to take the course. It’s not the course that’s hard for him. He’s doing very well in it (he has a 98% average and is three months ahead of the coursework). It’s just that he’s constantly crying about the missing 2%, which is not normal, even for so-called “perfectionists”. He’s only two chapters away from completion, which makes it harder for us to tell him to drop it.</p>
<p>My parents are aware of the problem (they called me during midterms to tell me about it, hehe), but they don’t want to believe it’s an illness. I really think that this is getting out of control, though, and he needs to see a doctor. I just wanted other parents’ advice (and support). I’ll try to convince them to get him checked.</p>
<p>“He’s only two chapters away from completion, which makes it harder for us to tell him to drop it.”
So What. HE IS FALLING APART FROM THE STRESS! This is a really poor excuse to allow this abuse, even if it is “self abuse”, to continue! He can ALWAYS take the class AGAIN, when he is EMOTIONALLY as well as INTELLECTUALLY ready for it.The PLUG NEEDS TO BE PULLED, and your brother allowed to be A KID.</p>
<p>I remember this poster (BCMan2013) from another thread. I remember feeling really sorry for him because of the way he described how his parents treated him when he got rejected from all the ivy league schools that he applied to, but got accepted at a great school.</p>
<p>I remember thinking that he should be very proud of an acceptance to BC (and probably other schools). BC is a dream school for many kids!!! Here is his quote. It was so pathetic I felt moved by it.:</p>
<p>“When I was rejected at all the ivies I applied to (I did four), my parents kept rubbing it in my face, even after I told them to let it go. They were like “you shouldn’t have graduated early”, “you must have sucked at the interviews”, “you should have let us seen your essay”, and “if you stayed one more year, you would have gotten in” right until I went to college.”</p>
<p>It sounds like his little brother may have heard these conversations. Maybe he saw how “disappointed” the parents were when his big brother was rejected from their choice schools that he now feels compelled to please them by seeking nothing but perfection!</p>
<p>If what BCMan says is true, the parents need counseling too! Before it is too late for the whole family!</p>
<p>Your brother is in the fifth grade (making him 9-11 years old?). In the US, most jurisdictions would see the continued non-treatment of his condition to be medical neglect. I can guarantee you that his school already is aware of this. If it goes too far, they will be compelled to call in the county’s child protective welfare services. What course follows is anyone’s guess.</p>
<p>Protect your brother. Warn your parents as to the seriousness of the symptoms. I’m not a psychological professional – but sure as heck neither are you or your parents!!. If they won’t, someone will (and should) call the authorities. It might even have to be you. Please take action soon.</p>
<p>Even someone as adept at math as your brother apparently is needs a live teacher at times. I think he shouldn’t necessarily drop the on-line course (since he will finish very soon), but his next advanced math course needs to be taught by a person. Perhaps someone at the closest college (even community college) could be hired to tutor him as he goes through the next level.</p>
<p>This will also aide in having another adult on site to chat with your parents about how his desire to achieve at such a level is manifesting itself in unhealthy ways.</p>
<p>It may not help to use the words “normal” since your parents and the whole family, achieves at a high level, and expects all within their family to do so. They might simply say that none of you are so called “normal” (meaning average), and not worry about the crying.</p>
<p>Say instead it isn’t healthy for your brother to be feeling this way. Say it is healthier for him at (what 10 or 11?) to have contact with a live teacher. (I also wonder if there are ever on-line discussions with classmates, solving problems etc., where perhaps some comments are made that an 11 year old might feel “stupid” over, perhaps it is teasing in an older student’s mind, but comes across harsh to a younger person, and of course the other students are probably not even aware that such a young person is taking the class).</p>
<p>I hope things become easier for your brother, and you.</p>
<p>Definitely needs to drop this course, if that’s the problem. My God, a fifth grader should be spending his spare time playing with his friends and enjoying life, not stressing out over an online course. Kid needs to get some counseling (perhaps, I don’t know) and have more fun in his life. My sons did some accelerated courses at that age, but they enjoyed them and never stressed out about them.</p>
<p>How lucky he is to have a brother like you caring for him!</p>
<p>The young guy is taking “pre-calculus” at fifth grade (something I took in eleventh grade). Obviously he demonstrates prodigy-like abilities. However, all can be lost if his path continues the way it is now.</p>
<p>If a kid is actually taking and doing well in a legitimate Pre Calculus course at 10 years old, that means he must already know second year Algebra, Geometry, and Trig. I would say that puts him in the prodigy camp. A real prodigy should probably be taught and guided by somebody who knows something about dealing with this type of child, not some anonymous online website that he is using and managing himself. I dont know where he goes to real school, but he should be getting assessed and placed in a full learning environment appropriate to this level of intelligence.</p>
<p>I react to this with more calmness than almost every poster above. He’s crying, suprisingly and uncontrollably. That’s the sympton presented in this thread. I realize all the other factors as well. </p>
<p>Fifth Grader with Spring approaching…hm.</p>
<p>It occurs to me that puberty begins with internal hormonal changes that do not show visibly from the outside until l8 months later! It’s also starting a year earlier than in the parents’ generation.</p>
<p>Of course crying always indicates pressure, but please take into account that puberty might be commencing inside of him, long before the family can even see a whisker! Similarly, Fifth Grade girls while still flat-chested begin to behave noticeably differently by second semester; much more volatile, like a roller-coaster. </p>
<p>I think with a range of possible answers you can broach this with your parents – not as excuses but as possible reasons. Try to normalize the conversation about your brother.</p>
<p>^the program is through JHU/CTY, so it should be legitimate (I hope).</p>
<p>He goes to a public elementary school, like most kids. The school paid for all his online classes at CTY (pre-alg->pre-calc), as he tested at high-school level math in 4th grade. The school held him back (for right reasons) because they didn’t think that he was emotionally ready to skip another grade.</p>
<p>He’s about to come home soon. I’ll talk to him (and my parents, when they come home) about it. We’re going to have a discussion tonight about this problem.</p>
<p>To the OP: You seem like an incredibly good older sibling. However, this should not be all (or mostly) on your shoulders to handle. Could you talk with a teacher or a counselor at his school – or perhaps the principal, particularly if school is already paying for the course.</p>
<p>I’ve seen kids really crash when perfectionism gets out of control, and that’s even with parents who aren’t continually suggesting that someone’s best isn’t good enough. </p>
<p>I hope he can get some support from some other adults who can help him temper his behavior.</p>
<p>I empathize with you OP, as I grew up in a household where nothing was ever good enough. Parents don’t realize the damage they can do with what they may view as seemingly (to them) innocuous comments. Over time, it’s like being hit on the head with a hammer again and again. But the fact that your parents didn’t learn good parenting skills in this area (from their parents) doesn’t excuse their behavior. Even if they don’t mean to be hurtful the result is hurt, so really what is the difference to a kid? Adults have to take responsibility for what they say and do. I’m sorry that this burden falls on your shoulders.</p>
<p>I agree with payingthreetuitions that there may be a developmental component to your brother’s extreme sensitivity at this point, as well. Also, the fact that you are now away at school and not home with your brother may be contributing to his emotional state. He may be used to having you there as a buffer, as my sister did. She exploded when I left her behind and went off to school and she told me she felt betrayed. </p>
<p>While I don’t believe that you should have to take ultimate responsibility for your parents, I understand your need to protect your younger brother. I, too, had to return home on several occasions from college to address problems with my younger sister that my parents had created and couldn’t handle. It is frustrating to have to do the job of a parent when you feel that you should have the luxury of being parented yourself.</p>
<p>This situation really needs to be addressed with some type of counseling so that both you and your brother don’t suffer long term effects from this psychological torment–because that is what it is. </p>
<p>Just know that your parents’ actions and words are probably fear-based and that they probably think that they are somehow showing you love and concern for your future success and happiness. You have to develop some thick skin to tune out their nonsense and figure a way to tell them that their words are hurtful so that your brother doesn’t suffer as much as you obviously have already. </p>
<p>Please find a trusted adult (family member, friend, professor, clergyman, etc.) to help you craft a plan of action and find a suitable counselor for your family. It’s not too late yet. Good luck and continue to believe in yourself.</p>
<p>All I can say is professional help, now. And if you feel like it isn’t needed, think of the fact that this can be considered a form of neglect or abuse in many places. Please have him go see a licensed child psychologist.</p>