How to work towards a better chance at really prestigious schools: Harvard, Princeton, MIT?

Applying to College
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how to work towards a better chance at really prestigious schools: harvard, princeton, mit?

junior in high school, co27 (going into app season soon)

1530 SAT, 3.98/4.93. rigorous coursework in math/science. competition math and some awards in freshman/sophomore years. (hopefully) 10 solid ap scores in the usuals + stem subjects. some leadership positions in sport, music, math. decent amount of community service. 2 research mentorships by application season

thinking about applied math + cs

parents care a lot about outcome and job after college (their reasoning: do well in good school → good job in cs → pays well → pay back loan easier and stable financially)

but beyond the prestige and job outcome i’m hoping i’ll find a school with a good fit for me because i truly like to learn math and science (and of course i’m also excited about the prospect of college)

i have some awards, but nothing like JMO/NYO/robotics world/other super crazy awards some people get. online forums tell me i don’t technically need them to be admitted, but i feel like i need to show my strengths in other areas, essays? how to portray myself in apps?

disclaimer: i have many target/safeties as well, i just wanted to ask specifically about the super super reach schools

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My primary advice is to be genuine. Be you. In terms of ECs, do what is right for you.

While you are at it, read the “applying sideways” blog on the MIT admissions web site.

My other advice is that IMHO this is a very good combination (and is pretty much what I did, although my bachelor’s degree just says “Mathematics”).

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What about them? Take your shot. Don’t assume a higher ranked school means a better outcome.

And loans -you don’t need them. With your stats, you can go for as low as $20k.

But to answer you - you’ll package yourself best you can, write great essays, get great LORs.

Ivy isn’t necessarily best. And amount borrowed matters - a lot.

Build your list based on what you can afford with no loans. It’s not about targets and safeties.

It’s about an assured safety that you can afford. After that apply anywhere you want but unless you have an 800 SAT math, MIT is unlikely.

Btw lots of ‘top’ school kids aren’t finding jobs. Ga Tech shows a quarter of its CS grads couldn’t. That was 2025. I don’t know the last snapshot and the school shows a 35% knowledge rate so they only have data on 1/3.

But don’t assume you spending means good outcome. Assume loans reduce freedom and choices in your future.

You might do a chance me thread.

Good luck.

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To be honest - nothing, really.

You have, essentially, maxxed-out all of the possible ways that you can increase your chances to be accepted to colleges with low acceptance rates. Well, winning a Very Prestigious Award would have helped, but the stars didn’t align for you in that way.

The only thing you can do is to finish strong, and make sure that your first semester of your senior year looks the same. Have somebody help you put together an application that highlights your strengths, make sure that your counselor writes you a very good letter, and write the best essay that you can.

However, the absolutely most important thing for you to think about is this:

This should be your primary focus. If your parents cannot or will not pay for your college, and they are making enough that you will require parental contribution, you are not going to attend any of the “prestigious” colleges that you are thinking of.

End of story.

If you are required to pay anything that is more than a couple thousand dollars above the amount of Federal Loan, the only colleges that you will be able to attend are those which will give you a merit-based full ride. None of these colleges that you are asking about will do that.

So your entire focus should be on what colleges you will be able to attend for free, using on merit-based scholarships.

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Great bringing up the other thread.

So OP - have your parents fill out the net price calculator for MIT. What if it’s $80K or $60K - how will you pay? And you are fixed on medical, so where will you get $100K a year for that? You can only borrow $200K for undergrad and med school via government loans.

Welcome | Net Price Calculator

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Continuing the discussion from College advice, chance me, match me, 4.00 GPA medical hopeful [MD resident, no parent contribution]:

Just do the best you can. There is no magic wand that will increase your chances at these reach schools. Apply and see…if you do or don’t get accepted, you will never know why.

How much loans will you need for all four years of undergrad?

There are TONS of colleges that fit this description.

From talking with my parents, I gathered they don’t want to help me pay for college. As a junior, I’m not exactly sure what this means for me (can I even go to college this way?)

Is this still the case?

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This is excellent advice for highly selective holistic review colleges.

I note the part of that advice that many potential applicants I see online don’t seem to be taking very seriously is this:

  • Be nice. This cannot be overstated. Don’t be wanton or careless or cruel. Treat those around you with kindness. Help people. Contribute to your community.

We know from many sources and studies and such that non-academic personal ratings play a very large role in determining which otherwise highly qualified but unhooked applicants actually get admitted to these colleges. Trying to get admitted by having even higher academic credentials or more “impressive” activities than other competitive applicants is a very low probability path. But having good enough academics and activities PLUS a very high personal rating is a much higher probability path.

I think even when some kids see this advice, they still think of it in terms of a task to perform. Write a good enough essay. Maybe “start a non profit”. But the best chances of actually getting the ratings you might need would be to actually be such a person, consistently in your interactions in school and your community. That is including because you aren’t in control of your recommendations, and I think a lot of kids end up getting what they think are good recommendations because they likely talk about how good the kid was as a student. But while such recommendations may be fine for many colleges, if they don’t also talk about how extraordinarily nice (or similar) the applicant was, that might not in fact be enough for the most selective holistic colleges.

And I see extremely few kids in discussions online who are targeting these colleges talking in such terms. At this point I have seen many hundreds of kids, or sometimes parents on behalf of their kids, asking about whether their grades/classes are good enough for these schools, or their test scores, or their activities. I don’t think I have ever seen a kid/parent spontaneously asking whether they are being nice enough. Even when I (or someone else) points out it is a major factor in admissions at these colleges, there is almost never any follow up from the kid/parent.

Which is probably why it still works so well as a gate for these colleges. If large percentages of their highly qualified but unhooked applicants aren’t taking this factor seriously, it makes it easy for these colleges to cut down their applicant pools to a much smaller percentage who they can then seriously consider at length for admissions.

I also agree this is a critical question.

There is a bit of good news, however. Getting big merit awards from some excellent colleges is possible for kids with really high numbers, and that can be somewhat less “holistic” in nature than admissions to the most selective colleges. So if this ends up needing to be your path for financial reasons anyway, then you are on track to follow it.

But “chasing merit” effectively requires a process of identifying the right colleges and then applying to a reasonably long list of them.

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CS grads are having trouble with the job market due to AI, and there are a lot of layoffs. I hope you can avoid large loans. Not sure how that is going to shake out. Academic CS will be taking AI into account no doubt. Applications for CS majors are down at present.

Pursue authentic interests. Find activities outside of school that further develop you, if the in-school opportunities are lacking.

College Confidential offers free essay help, if that is a concern.

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What is your SAT math score ?

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At this point your application is fairly set. It would be hard to jump into something new that will make a meaningful difference in your application.

By all means apply to a few hyper-competitive schools (FWIW the ones you noted above have an under 10% acceptance rate) – it is easy to come up with that list. But you need to spend the time and energy to develop a well-rounded application list that includes reach, match, and safety schools that appear affordable and that you would be happy to attend.

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Parents have revised previous statement: said they’ll cover enough so that I can go to college comfortably, but will expect me to take out some amount of loans/pay back with salary.

They want me to focus on getting in to schools first, if I so happen to get into a school that they’ll support me for (e.g schools listed), we’ll work out the financials but they’ll pay what they should, leave the rest to loans. I believe they ultimately do want me to attend a high-ranked school and while expecting me to find a good job at some point, will support me as needed. Significantly changed from what I perceived back from earlier thread

my sat math is 790

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How much in loans do they expect you to take…and are they willing to co-sign anything above the federally funded direct loan ($5500 for freshman)?

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This does not seem like a sound financial plan! As @thumper1 asked, how much in loans do your parents expect you to take? If it is over the federal loan limit, be very wary. Nobody is guaranteed a huge salary upon graduation regardless of the college attended. And a huge debt load will be a huge burden to shoulder as a young adult.

Find out what your parents will contribute, run net price calculators, look at colleges where you qualify for automatic merit aid and come up with a plan that makes sense.

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This is the median for incoming undergraduate students at Caltech, MIT, and Stanford, and is very good for just about anywhere else.

I think that you are a competitive applicant for even the most selective universities. The problem is that they have so many competitive applicants and accept so few of them.

Graduates from MIT and Stanford routinely work alongside graduates from a very wide range of other universities, and in most cases no one cares where anyone got their degree. I once worked with one person who was an MIT graduate and he did care, so I got a Stanford alumni calendar and put it up in my office just to spite him (but I did not say anything to him about it – it was an attractive calendar with a lot of pictures of the Stanford campus).

By the way, for a math and CS combination some form of master’s degree is a possibility. There are some very good one year masters degrees (and probably some two year master’s also) in math, in CS, and in some closely related fields such as AI or Machine Learning or Operations Research. Even only partly related fields such as acoustics is apparently possible (as is law). If you look at the graduate students at highly ranked graduate schools such as Stanford they will have come from a huge range of undergraduate universities, including many that are not ranked in the top 50 and probably some not ranked in the top 100. Very smart people attend a very wide range of undergraduate universities for a very wide range of reasons. At least in my experience if they go on to a graduate degree at all (which is not really needed for a student studying math or CS or engineering) then they seem to be a bit more likely to attend a highly ranked school for a graduate degree.

Regarding the finances, I think that you should probably get your parents to run the NPCs for a few highly ranked schools. It would be best if they know what they might be getting themselves into before you go through the trouble of sending in the applications. If the results are too daunting, you could gently suggest the alternative of a bachelor’s degree at a very good in-state public university or a school with good merit aid, and then a master’s at one of the highly ranked famous schools. This is possible. I used to know a lot of people who were doing exactly that (and still know a few who did this).

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Google “little Ivies” and check out Colleges that Change Lives ctcl.org. Some of the little Ivies (like Amherst for instance) have generous financial aid. Some of the ctcl schools have merit aid. Don’t take out substantial loans with the idea that CS is going to pay you a lot. Grad schools costs. Doctoral programs are one way to fund a master’s (in some programs) but spots are being cut at some schools. Find the most affordable option for yourself which may or may not be public.

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What does “should” mean? And does it mean “can”?

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To answer your question directly, pick one and construct your entire application narrative to establish an excellent fit for that particular school. Essentially why you belong there (and nowhere else) and vice versa and how your particular abilities/potential can benefit that school. Apply early action, but realize that it will be restrictive. Also realize that it is a risky move that may cause you to end up with only safety school acceptances.

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Early Action is only restrictive if it is SCEA or REA (single choice early action or restrictive early action). And the restriction is about what other colleges you can apply to at an early time.

Both Harvard and Princeton have REA. You can’t apply to both of these REA…you would have to pick one or the other for REA. And you would not be able to apply to MIT EA if you apply REA to either of these other two colleges.

MIT has regular early action. This means you can apply early action or apply earlier in the application cycle to any other college.

Now…if you are considering applying early decision you can only apply to ONE college like this…and that would be a binding acceptance.

You need to read the REA SCEA guidelines on each college website to see what they allow if you apply SCEA or REA to any of these.

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I absolutely have to agree with this statement. I think this is why our kids were admitted to prestigious schools. Their teachers, their administrators, and their coaches all said that our three kids were just considerate, polite, and nice kids. As parents, that made us very proud.

Administrative staff always told me that they could always count on my children to be mentors to new students.

The staff and coaches often complimented us on our kids’ going out of their way to help others.
Our kids were popular, and part of that, I believe is because they are/were nice kids. I often had students/ teammates telling me how our children stood up to bullies for them.
These are not things that you put on your application, but apparently, it was a recurrent theme in the letters of recommendation from their teachers, counselors and coaches.
Be kind. Be considerate. Be happy.

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I will second that. While my kid was nominated by her counselor for Posse for leadership qualities, it was the type of leader that she was which determined both her nomination by her counselor and her selection by the school from the 60 or so counselor nominees. What was constantly emphasized was the fact that she was kind and warm.

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