HS Jr looking for more ideas - maybe Urban Design or Geography or Construction Management [VA resident, 4.0 UW, 35 ACT, 1440 SAT, <$50K]]

Chance Me / Match Me
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The “me” in this is really my son. He’s a HS Junior and we’re starting to build his college application list, with the goal of making visits during the spring so he can get applications done over the summer. Details below.

Demographics

  • US Citizen
  • VA resident
  • I don’t know what “type of HS” means, it’s a public four year HS
  • White male

Intended Major(s)
He’s interested in different aspects of urban planning (more the how to figure out where to build what then the more sociology type aspects); geography (particular interest in GIS work); or construction management (but not super engineering heavy, more about building and management and process).

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 4.0
  • Weighted HS GPA (incl. weighting system): 4.11 (if current semester grades are included in GPA/maintained for end of year). Weighting systems is any AP course gets an extra .5 added to the grade.
  • Class Rank: His HS does not rank
  • ACT/SAT Scores: ACT = 35, (English 35, Reading 36, Math 35, Science 36); may not submit SAT, SAT = 1440 (Math 730, reading 710).

Coursework
*AP courses so far - Human Geo, Physics 1, English Language, US History, BC Calc. Senior year plans to take APs in US Gov, English Lit, Physics C, Chemistry, Statistics.

  • Four years of French
  • Three years of engineering, including this year focused on a year long capstone project

Awards

  • N/A

Extracurriculars
*Eagle Scout, Order of the Arrow, other scouting leadership like patrol leader

  • Four year member of the indoor and outdoor track team, represents the school on a countywide athletic council for which he had to be nominated as a leader among athletes
  • National Honor Society
  • Volunteers at the local food pantry winter and summer breaks
  • Summer between soph and jr year served as a junior counselor at sleep away camp

Essays/LORs/Other
*He is a student who makes an effort to get to know his teachers, and seems to have good relationships, so I’d guess he’ll have good LORs; no telling yet on his essays, it’s too early

Cost Constraints / Budget

  • I’d like him to stay under $50k for tuition + room and board

Schools
He’s started building a list, so I’m including those here and would be happy to hear thoughts on whether he’d get in. But more than that what I really want are ideas for other schools to add.

To note - while he isn’t necessarily looking for a particular size (as long as its 5000 students+) he really wants a vibe of school spirit - where people go to games or hang out and there’s a definite community.

In terms of geography, we live in NVa and I don’t think he wants to be an airplane ride away if he doesn’t have to be, but for a good program, he’d probably consider that. He can’t apply to any schools that require a fine arts class (California) as he hasn’t had any.

He will apply EA or early to rolling admission schools for all of these and any others.

  • Safety
    Appalachian State - would major in construction management

  • Likely /Match*
    Clemson - would major in construction management;
    Ohio State - would major in City and Regional Planning (school of architecture) or GIS (College of Arts and Sciences);
    Pitt - would major in Urban Planning and Geographic Analysis (school of arts and sciences);
    Virginia Tech - would major in Smart and Sustainable Cities (College of liberal arts and human sciences); or Geosciences (college of science); or geography (college of natural resources and environment)

  • Reach*
    NC State - would major in construction engineering, although this is in an engineering department (as opposed to architecture) it’s not as engineering heavy a major as some others;
    UVA - would major in urban and environmental planning (at the School of Architecture);
    UNC Chapel Hill - would major in geography, with concentration in urban development or GIScience

So, what do you think, what other schools should he be considering? Any suggestions?

Thank you!

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Honestly, my first thought was Virginia Tech, which I see you already have. (I am a Civil Engineer alum and work for a local govt. I am also responsible for our dept’s GIS data.)

You might also think about JMU as a safety. My son graduated last year. His main major was Intelligence Analysis, but he double majored in Geography. He wound up loving GIS too, which I found amusing since he never cared one lick about my job.

Looking at their website they also have a minor in Urban and Regional Studies.

VA schools don’t give much aid, but with his stats he might get something there. The full scholarship requires an application early which we missed, as JMU wasn’t on our radar then. But he did wind up with the Madison scholarship giving him 50% off tuition.

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So two thoughts

  1. When you say you want to stay under $50k that’s not entirely clear. Is that $50k assuming need aid? Merit aid? Both? That matters

  2. A lot of urban planning degrees are Masters level and if you look at ranking of top MUP degrees, then eastern schools like GaTech, GW, and Rutgers (Bloustein School of PP) would probably make the cut distance wise. Presuming these have good undergrad and possibly 5 years masters (not sure), Of these, Rutgers is moderate cost, very “rah-rah”, fun to attend, and has an enthusiastic and loyal Alumni group. It is massive however (>50,000 students) so perhaps similar to The OSU (…just with fewer football victories. :wink:

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@ClassicMom98

how much GIS training is enough GIS training if the OP is going to mix GIS with UP/CM?

A 4-course certificate with methods courses?
Minor?
GEOG major??

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Thanks @classicmom98 - I hadn’t even thought about JMU. No idea why, just… hadn’t. Since we are in-state, if he gets into any of the VA state schools, it should fall in our price range. (I mean, less expensive and with merit aid would be nice, always!, but not necessary).

I am nervous about the size of Virginia Tech for him, it just seems So Big, but other than that, it feels right in most ways.

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I wouldn’t know. I’m a CE Major who has been self-taught in GIS starting in the mid 90s.

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Thanks @borodad - the $50k is after any merit aid might be awarded. We won’t qualify for need based aid. (Entertainingly, my older son, now a sophomore at WPI, was being recruited at a different D3 school to row - they did a financial aid pre-read for us and helpfully said “you will not qualify for need based aid now. You also will not qualify when your younger child goes to college.” We laughed - at least they didn’t play hide the ball with us and were upfront, expect nothing, now and forevermore.)

We’ve been thinking about adding Rutgers to the list, I think it might be a good option to give him a different vibe from the others on his list. We can’t add GW - we live in the DC suburbs and no way does he want to be that close to home. :wink:

He doesn’t really know what he wants to do with himself, so I’m not sure if urban planning/masters is where he wants to go. He was dead set - for years - on construction management and only now is he starting to think about other things.

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For a smaller flagship that isn’t too far from home, how about UDel? They have both a GIS major GIScience and Environmental Data Analytics | Major Finder | University of Delaware and Construction Engineering https://ce.udel.edu/academics/undergraduate/construction-mngmt/ (Plus, if he could get into the Honors College, that would provide some smaller-school benefits (particularly if he’d like one of the sub-programs such as Climate Scholars or Grand Challenges Scholars). They give merit, and their sticker price is only about 8K over your budget so getting enough merit seems reasonable to hope for.

VT really seems to cover all the bases well, for a great in-state price. I’m not familiar with how easy it would be to switch among his majors of interest, since they’re all in different colleges - that would definitely be something to research.

Not sure if UConn is close enough or potentially affordable enough, but they have a great GIS program. | Department of Geography Similar in size to UDel. (They have a construction engineering & management minor, but I think it’s only open to students in the engineering school.)

Is he interested in being near his WPI sib? Clark U. also has a strong Geography/GIS department: Undergraduate Programs - Graduate School of Geography and they’re pretty generous with merit.

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Rest assured, Virginia Tech is not big. It is arguably the best laid out campus in Virginia. Yes I am biased but Im not wrong. The campus is easier to navigate and walk compared to JMU, UVA, etc. VT is an awesome choice!

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Purdue would come in under your budget and has both urban planning and construction management majors.

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If money is not an issue for OOS tuition Penn State main campus has a very reputubale Geo program. But I see you mentioned $50K. PSU won’t give you a penny.

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Yes to ACT, no to SAT.

There’s a chance at every school on the list but UNC will be tough.

Given the budget, stay in state - or go to schools with low cost (Purdue) or heavy merit) - like an Alabama that will be $20K for Construction Engineering all in given the country’s best merit or the Environment and Society major in the Geography department. There are more schools such as WVU, UTK and more that will be under $50K Clemson, likely won’t be by the way - but U of SC would be…

Best of luck

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Thanks for added suggestions @aquapt! I think he could really go for UConn and selfishly I’d rather drive north on 95 than south, since we have lots of family and friends in that direction. :slight_smile: We toured Delaware a year or so ago and something about it rubbed him the wrong way, but I’ll see what he thinks about adding it back. Clark is probably a no for him - he really wants something bigger than his high school, and Clark isn’t.

@mpb2005 - thanks for the positive vibes on VT. My worry isn’t so much about size in terms of land coverage, but student body. Tech, and Ohio State, are just So Many Students. While there can be a benefit in that - surely there is something for everyone - I worry about my son getting lost in the shuffle. (Of course, this comes with my perspective of having gone to W&M when it was under 5000 undergrads, and my other son is at WPI which is right about 5000 undergrads. So the idea of 30,000 or more is just… so much. But it could be right for this boy, we’ll just have to see.

Thanks @momofboiler1 - I need to check back with him on Purdue. We had it on the list when he was thinking more engineering or construction engineering (my older son applied there and was very interested, he’s a CivE/MechE double major now at WPI) but when he walked away from that we took it off the list and forgot to look at other options there.

@caz0743 - I think that (money) is going to be an issue. We could pay a bit more than $50k, but I really don’t want to. Not when he has an option (assuming he gets in) like VA Tech that will be less. I don’t mind paying more than VT cost, if the school is the right fit. But if we’re going to go over where we want to be ($50k) then it needs to be because it’s somehow a really unique experience or opportunity.

I agree @tsbna44 on yes to ACT, no to SAT. When he saw how well he did on the ACT, he decided he didn’t need to try the SAT a second time. Unfortunately, of the schools on his list I feel like UNC will check the most boxes for him in terms of feeling right on size, program, atmosphere. So of course that’s the one he’s least likely to get into. Sigh. That’s always the way somehow. I’m not too jazzed about Clemson for him - it’s on the list mostly because the program would be a good fit, and a friend of his is really excited about it so he wanted to look at it. But it’s SUCH a PITA to get to from where we live. I’m thinking I might see if he’d be interested in swapping out Clemson and Ohio State for UConn - that would be much more realistic for us in terms of travel and would give him a different geographical vibe to consider. I don’t think he’d be comfortable in the deep South so that’s what Alabama hasn’t been on his list, but I should check with him and make sure that’s still what he’s thinking.

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I have a UDel graduate and a junior at Clemson, both have very strong feelings of community. UDel students are more RA-RA about UDel than the sports (tons of weekend parties, day and night) Clemson has both (it’s like something I’ve never seen before honestly, my daughter had 10 friends/family going down next week for her birthday - we are in NJ, some have visited before). My daughter with similar stats got the top scholarship at UDel besides the DuPont (100 top applicants get more), I think your son would have a shot (mine had a 34 act). Both my daughters are/were in honors and they liked to program.

I also have a Rutgers graduate who loved it, but it’s BIG. Another one of my sons ended up transferring out (I didn’t think it was a good fit for him in the first place).

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How does student feel about rural versus urban vs suburban?

For example, compare these three:

UConn is very much out in the woods with almost no town. They built some stores and shoppes thankfully. It’s a 15-20 min ride to any kind of malls or strip malls and 30min to Hartford.

UDel has a small college town and you can get a train to Philly. It closer to civilization vs UConn

Rutgers is urban. It’s in a city which is within the sprawl around NYC. Trains to NYC Boston Philly and DC.

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I went to VT and people are always shocked when they go and they are like wow…I know there are so many people but it does not have that vibe at all. The key is to get involved. Once I found my people, I felt like I knew everyone on campus! In reality, I probably knew 150 people lol.

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@BoroDad - good questions re: rural v urban v suburban. I don’t think he really knows or understands what that means to him. I don’t love urban for him, partly because I think he’s the type of kid who will go out too much and get distracted by all the city has to offer. College-town feel or a defined campus that’s on the outskirts of a city (and not so in the middle of things seems more right for him. He really loves nature and mountains, so I think a rural campus that offers hiking or something in the vicinity would be a better fit than, say, a campus in super suburbia surrounded by lots of neighborhood developments. Part of this trip, though, is for him to find out what feels right to him. When we were doing college visits for my older son it was right as COVID restrictions were easing, and attendance was limited, so he couldn’t join any. He’s been on exactly three college campuses (Villanova, when we were visiting friends who live nearby; W&M, because I went to school there and we stop there sometimes when we are driving to the outer banks; and Delaware, because we happened to be driving through the town it’s in on the way to somewhere else and I insisted we drive through). None of these are remotely recent and none were very robust visits. So not great for opinion forming or information gathering.

@Mjkacmom - thank you for this, very helpful info re: UDel, Clemson and Rutgers. I suspect that my guy is going to love the feel of Clemson, but probably not the distance or challenge to get there. Coming from NJ, you are going even further from me (I’m right outside of DC). Does your Clemson student fly home for breaks?

@mpb2005 - you are so right about the importance of finding your people!

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She does a combo, drives down in august, flies home for thanksgiving, drives home for Christmas and back, flies for Easter (goes away with friends for spring break), flies home in May. She didn’t have a car until this year but it was easy to get rides. Actually I bought a return flight for her friend who offered to drive down with her in august (goes to college in NJ) because all of her northern friends have cars. Clemson provides free shuttles to Greenville and Charlotte airports for breaks (just need to sign up early, but it’s pretty easy to get off the waitlist).Students do a lot of airport runs for friends as well, my daughter has done it dozens of times. Everyone is really nice!

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Despite having lots of students, Virginia Tech has a very well laid out, manageable campus. Good luck!

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S18 is a consultant in real estate economics and loves his job, a lot of which is related to redevelopment projects, sometimes for city governments (including some very high profile projects, eg basketball arenas), other times for developers. A lot of gathering data, spreadsheet analysis, writing reports and some site/client visits. He focused on urban planning as part of his Public Affairs major, and took some classes in GIS and R, also interned in housing policy at a well known DC thinktank.

His firm mostly looks for very strong college grades (3.9+) with an interest in the sector, sometimes finance or economics majors but now increasingly students with a policy perspective plus demonstrated numeracy. On the East Coast, they hire quite a few from Cornell, but also UMD, UConn, Rutgers and I expect applicants from UVA/UNC/W&M would be fine (if you can get the grades there).

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