I attend Alternative High School 2.5GPA | 35 ACT | No EC's/Anything Special -- Advice

Parents Forum
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<p>Heavens, I don’t know how I found my self in this situation.</p>

<p>But nonetheless, I don’t know what I am going to go when I apply for University. I attend some Alternative High School. My GPA is like 2.5, possibly lower. I did well on the ACT, and feel I am an advanced student. However, my current standing in academia says otherwise…</p>

<p>Stats:</p>

<p>GPA - 2.5 [Possibly Lower]
ACT - 35
EC’s - Wind Symphony for 3 years
eBay PowerSeller | Business of 120K Annually @ 3 Years
Work/Assistance for The Michigan Institute of Cryonics
Played in some European Youth Symphony in Romania</p>

<p>AP’s - AP Calc AB
AP Bio.
AP Chem.
AP Physics B
AP Physics C</p>

<p>Note: I got grades of like D’s and F’s in those classes, despite getting two 4’s and the rest 5’s. I am just not fond of the way the Western World learns. I am learning just fine. I swear I learn more OUTSIDE of school. </p>

<p>I suppose, as my family and myself, operating several successful on and offline business, had no need to follow the rigid path of current academia, getting into a “good university”, and landing that high-paying, dream job. I don’t think I ever want a job.</p>

<p>Of course, my family as taught me, “Never work for money, allow money to work for you - it never tires.” I thus have no desire to go to University, amass a degree, and market myself to the ‘work force.’ I wish to research or teach, and thus feel I am more suitable for a research based University.</p>

<p>My current passion in life is to pursue a degree in a field such as Biological Engineering or Genetic Engineering. I have always loved to build, operate, improve and enable. Ever since my adolescent youth, I would always wonder why man would improve what they created… but never noticed such improvements in man.</p>

<p>I feel my life is best suited in the emerging technology of genomics: research, and the commercialization of my work. As I have said before, “Its time to enable what we are, advance, and transcend.”</p>

<p>I’m located in Michigan, so I have my eyes on University of Michigan, Ann Arbor.
Note: Will being gay AND a minority help me? :P</p>

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<p>My guess; being gay will be irrelevant, minority status may help, but only if you’re an underrepresented minority, and only to a point.</p>

<p>The GPA is really the killer. It says pretty much what you yourself said, that you don’t have the tolerance, patience, persistance, discipline to do what is required of you in an academic setting. Naturally schools will be impressed with your obvious intelligence, but very selective schools will also want to admit students that will succeed in that setting. Succeeding, for better or worse, usually involves a lot of doing what is required of you… even when you don’t want to do it.</p>

<p>By all means apply to whatever schools you’re most interested in attending. Be prepared with a solid backup option where admission will be certain. If it comes to that, you could spend a year or two in a less selective school where you demonstrate your ability to make grades that reflect your abilities, and then you may be able to transfer to a school that is more exciting to you.</p>

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<p>Thank you for your comments. I know my last notes would be rather irreverent, thus the “:P” emoticon.</p>

<p>But I big to differ, I am an extremely patient and very disciplined person. All of what I have learned has been learned out of school. I often did not attend or would nap in my classes as the course work was pathetic or it simply was not worth my time. I have already consumed a text book Molecular Biology and am almost complete with my text of Organic Chemistry, which I spend about 3-4 hours a day on.</p>

<p>I don’t eve care about a degree to get a job. I am already financially secure for quite some time. Money bores me, and I’d prefer the feeling of discovery then consumption. </p>

<p>For some reason, I just have a desire to help our pathetic society…</p>

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<p>I don’t see Umich happening with a 2.5, ESPECIALLY not engineering which is the most competitive school here, but it’s always worth it to apply-- I was a longshot (as a transfer student with a whole point higher than you) and I still applied, and it paid off-- just definitely have a back up plan. URM status will definitely help, however they aren’t going to let you in just because you are smart when you haven’t shown that you can be successful there-- which requires being able to do well in classes, not just on tests. If I were you I might try an easier college first and then transfer in. If you were unable to get over not liking the way the Western World teaches in high school, why would you be able to in college? While umich is a research university, it’s not like you’re graded on your research. You still need to study, do homework, go to class, etc. That might be a topic for an admissions essay, because if I have to ask that question I imagine an adcom might too.</p>

<p>ETA:</p>

<p>“I am an extremely patient and very disciplined person. All of what I have learned has been learned out of school. I often did not attend or would nap in my classes as the course work was pathetic or it simply was not worth my time.”</p>

<p>If you really wanted to go to Michigan, you would have sucked it up like the other smart kids and got it done. Sorry buddy, but it’s time for a reality check.</p>

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<p>I thought Michigan no longer looks at URM status? </p>

<p>Hypothermic, I think you should explore another avenue. Why don’t you consider an alternative degree program-- something like Excelsior College in NY where you could self-study some classes (getting credit by testing), do some internships and combine it with some local college or distance courses? That way, you take exactly what you want and have minimal outside requirements. Frankly, I think you will find the structure of conventional college stiffling and I suspect you will find an alternative program more interesting. (I am not familiar enough with New College in Florida to direct you but maybe that would be another possibility.)</p>

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<p>There is a LOT of argument about how that court case is meant to be interpreted. My understanding is that they are not allowed to assign a quantifiable advantage to URMs (like the point system they used to use) but that it can still be taken into consideration, but maybe I have it wrong-- it’s easy to get it confused with all the bickering about it. </p>

<p>Your suggestions are really great though, I didn’t know such things existed. That’d be a great thing for OP to look into.</p>

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<p>What are you really asking? Are you looking for suggestions on where to apply? Are you asking if you should even go to college? </p>

<p>You wrote an awful lot, but the only question you asked is whether being gay and minority will help you get into Michigan. I thought Michigan outlawed affirmative action, so no. </p>

<p>Are you currently a senior? If so, it’s almost December and you should have applied to Michigan by their Nov 1. priority deadline for the best chance, and should know soon if you can get it. As others have mentioned, I wouldn’t bet the farm on it. If you didn’t apply, then your chances are probably even lower. </p>

<p>If you are a junior, why are you even in a high school that you are not even using. It’s only hurting you. Why don’t you homeschool yourself since you are so good at it. The successful EBay business is a more impressive EC than most. You are obviously very bright.</p>

<p>Purdue seems like a good choice. 72% admit rate. 9% had GPA between 2.5 and 2.9 and your ACT if off the charts. </p>

<p>I think British and Scottish universities just look at test scores, especially APs. </p>

<p>There are probably a bunch of research universities in Canada with good engineering programs that would be happy to have you. Do well there and you can get into a top graduate school, even MIT. They don’t require teacher recommendations, which I suspect may be difficult for you to get. They also care more about 11th and 12th grade grades which may help you. I think the big 3 (Toronto, McGill and British Columbia are longshots at best). Try Alberta, Carleton, McMaster, Queen’s, Waterloo and Western Ontario. </p>

<p>Arizona, Arizona State, Kansas, Colorado, Oregon and Iowa are some US research universities that you may just get into. Some may not require recs. </p>

<p>Case Western, Michigan Technological University and Rose Hulman have respectable engineering programs and take roughly 70-75% of their applicants. Would they take you? More likely than Michigan. My guess is that at least one of those would? They probably need recommendations though. </p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>Hypothermic -
If you would like to give “going to college for engineering” a try, you are astoundingly lucky to live in Michigan, where I think you have a reasonable shot at admission to Michigan Tech, a great engineering school that is not very hard to get into. I don’t think that “going to college for engineering” will really be your cup of tea, but you could give it a try. It would mean a few more years of hypothermia, but hey, you’d end up with an engineering degree. (For a warmer and but more expensive because it is out of state option, look at Missouri Science and Technology in Rolla.)
There is an advantage to having a degree, and you are at the age when “going away to college” is both useful and fun. I would suggest that you come at this from a different direction and find a path toward a degree that suits your unique gifts and your current perspective on life. Ann Arbor is a great college town, liberal and fun. Apply! You never know. I think your chance of admission is slim. However, I believe it is easy to transfer into U of M if you have spent a year at one of the two regional campuses in Dearborn and Flint (and I believe that you would be admitted at one of these two), so that would be an option. Or move to Ann Arbor and go to community college for a year or two, even part time. Then on to Michigan for college and, if you find genetics/biomedical engineering schooling and research really is your cup of tea, on further to grad school.
Good luck. I think you are heading in the right direction. Keep us posted!</p>

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<p>Ha! ClassicRockerDad and I were composing our messages at the same time. Purdue and Arizona State also sound plausible (and warmer than Michigan Tech) possibilities where you could give “going to college for engineering” a try. That ACT score might get you an OOS tuition waiver at some schools.</p>

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<p>You could first take some rigorous classes through continuing education and then use those grades when you apply for admission the following year. You might like college classes a lot more than high school, and your intelligence might flourish.</p>

<p>You could look at schools like Goddard or Union Institute in Vermont, which have low residency (meaning you spend a week there per semester) and work on your own. This would depend on having a mentor and internship, I would think. These schools may be better for humanities and the arts, but you could look into them.</p>

<p>My third child is intelligent and disciplined, but hates school. She just got her GED and is taking community college classes. She is also struggling with how to continue her education, so I can sympathize with your situation. With your self-motivation, things will work out, but it may take a little more effort to figure it all out for yourself, than most. The world does look at grades, particularly larger institutions that need to rely on stats in admissions.</p>

<p>Looking at smaller schools would be a good suggestion except that engineering is often better at larger schools.</p>

<p>Longshot: you could talk to Olin in Needham, MA, a prestigious but very individualized program. You might have to spend a year taking classes in order to impress them, but talk to them and find out.</p>

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<p>I think forget about the school GPA and transcript.</p>

<p>Take a few more APs, English, history and a foreign language if possible. Use your AP Diploma and ACT score and apply to good LACs (the ones that don’t require a HS diplona). i bet you’ll get in somewhere.</p>

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<p>You’d have to market yourself in order to do research or teach; these fields (research and teaching) are part of the work force. If you “have no desire to go to University, amass a degree, and market myself to the ‘work force.’,” why are you asking about attending a university when you have no desire to go to one??</p>

<p>But assuming you DO want to “amass a degree,” or at least attend college, one thing I suspect you will have to explain is why you go to an “Alternative High School.” Maybe Michigan is different, but where I am, an “alternative high school” is one that kids who are kicked out of regular public high schools go when their parents can’t find them/afford a private school, meaning there are disciplinary issues that have come up, at least in the school system’s eyes. If that’s the case in Michigan too, you will have to have a good explanation for, and take responsibility for, whatever landed you in the school you’re in. (Around here, unfortunately, it could be next to nothing – there’s a reason my district’s expulsions are now being watched by the state ed people. There are a lot of idiot administrators out there!)</p>

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<p>I don’t understand, you say you don’t like the way the Western World learns (whatever this means), you learn more outside of school, you have no interest in going to a university to get a degree or following the current path of academia. </p>

<p>So why are you even considering going to UMich? You obviously don’t apply yourself in a traditional school setting, and UM will be a traditional setting and then some that will require you to study and learn in a traditional, academic fashion. If you can’t do that in high school, where students’ hands are held pretty tight, you probably won’t be able to do it in college where you’re expected to have pretty well developed study skills and be able to operate on your own. </p>

<p>If you’re serious about genetic or molecular engineering, you’re going to need to go to community college for a while and get good grades in base science classes, even if you have high AP test scores, you’ve got to convince an adcom that you can function successfully in a science classroom in a demanding discipline.</p>

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<p>I don’t think the OP should go to a college that will be academically demanding, since he doesn’t like having to pay attention in class nor do the assignments.</p>

<p>However, if the OP wants to commit to doing these things, then he needs to be realistic as to who will accept him with that 2.5 GPA (maybe lower). There are ranked schools that won’t even consider ANYONE under a 3.0 unless you are an athlete.</p>

<p>Schools often avoid accepting kids who have high ACT/SAT, but low GPAs. It can suggest either laziness or a rebellion against authority. I realize that the OP’s time and attention has been diverted by his business, however, the school will want him to be focused on school for awhile. </p>

<p>OP - are you an international student?</p>

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<p>If you have your eyes on Michigan just go to a community college and take the classes required to transfer. You’re clearly smart enough to go to Michigan, if you showed in community college that you got your act together, then you’d have a good chance. </p>

<p>Again, as everyone said, Michigan is a traditional learning environment. If you don’t like it you’ll have to atleast deal with it for four years, and then you’ll have a degree where you’ll have to market yourself.</p>

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<p>Have you looked into schools where you don’t get grades? I don’t know if they have your major, but Antioch, Hampshire, and Bennington might be worth investigating. I would also suggest looking at schools that don’t have required courses.</p>

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<p>Some schools have a new thing called “New College” (or similar), where students design their own majors. There may be some Gen Ed requirements (which AP classes may cover), but you get to select classes from a few different majors to “create” you major. For instance, someone might mix art classes with econ classes, or mix math, bio, and chem and create a custom pre-med major, etc.</p>

<p>Would something like that interest you?</p>

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<p>I think the OP has gotten some good suggestions. Another option is to skip the formalities and just move to a city with a desirable university and try to audit classes. (This means you pay for them, but don’t get a grade, don’t have to submit the homework, don’t get credits.) It’s just a learning for its own sake kind of arrangement. In larger lecture-based classes especially this is often possible. In smaller classes and lab classes priority is given to enrolled students, of course.</p>

<p>I don’t know whether the OP’s outsized ego is a true representation of his/her feelings of superiority or a defense mechanism with regards to his/her failure in the traditional school model. I am in complete agreement that the typical high school environment is intellectual and spiritual death to certain people (for both those that are highly intelligent and those that are not), but the condescending notion that the OP may be willing to consider lending his/her superior abilities to help the pathetic human race will, in itself, accomplish nothing but to stroke the ego of the OP. Stoke away if it feels good, but you’ll be helping yourself (or not) far more than anything else.</p>

<p>There are lots of students who get 35 on an ACT test and 4s and 5s on AP tests, who also get excellent grades and contribute to their communities with humility and grace. Now how does the OP compete with that? As far as admissions to selective schools… probably not too well. It may be “pathetic”, but it is what it is.</p>

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<p>“There are lots of students who get 35 on an ACT test and 4s and 5s on AP tests, who also get excellent grades and contribute to their communities with humility and grace. Now how does the OP compete with that? As far as admissions to selective schools… probably not too well. It may be “pathetic”, but it is what it is.”</p>

<p>This. </p>

<p>There are a lot of options for you, OP. While your poor GPA may disqualify you from getting into a school like Michigan freshman year, you could certainly attend community college for a semester or two and THEN apply…(or attend a less selective university for a year and then apply). I think your chances of doing that, should you get good grades, are really high.</p>

<p>But, the truth is, if you didn’t succeed in high school, it’s even harder in college (trust me, I know). If you thought high school was full of a lot of a pointless busy work, college is 100x worse - it’s not the academic paradise people make it out to be. There’s a lot of reading, a lot of homework, tests, and teachers who put things on the tests that they said in lecture that you can’t learn for yourself! There’s teachers who can’t speak English or teach for crap, teachers who don’t care about you like they did in HS (trust me, they cared about you more in high school), etc. etc. etc. If you got Ds and Fs in HS, you WILL get Fs in college, because it is WORSE.</p>

<p>So, if you’re thinking of attending college, think very seriously about alternative options or think very seriously about what classes you take (seems you’d do well in classes with one big test at the end, but not a lot of class participation/hw/etc.), if you want to actually get a degree. Without a big attitude change, I don’t really see you graduating though (take this from someone who also needs a big attitude change).</p>

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<p>I would withhold judgment on the OP and take him at his word. </p>

<p>He wouldn’t be the first really bright kid for whom school got in the way of his education. He clearly has some academic talents, especially in math and science as demonstrated by his test scores. Also, don’t neglect that fact he’s done so well in his Ebay business that he’s likely a full pay student, having made the money for himself. That’s pretty impressive and a feat not easily matched by many on this board. </p>

<p>I really think that he can get into a decent university and start over. He now has a solid goal in life, and I doubt he’d make the same mistake now that he sees what it could have cost him. I don’t think University of Michigan should be the goal. I think that ship has sailed and there are other opportunities. I thought the suggestions that I gave him would give him access to faculty who do research in the areas that he’s interested in. If he can impress them and make them want to work with him, he can go places. </p>

<p>Come on? Community college? He’d be bored to death. Antioch? Didn’t they go out of business? Hampshire? I doubt that makes sense. The school seems like the antithesis of rigor.</p>