<p>Op</p>
<p>How was the parent-teacher conference?</p>
<p>Just wanted to update to say that the conference did not go as bad as I thought in some ways, not well in others.</p>
<p>Present were his teacher, a math teacher who assists with children who are struggling, and the principal also popped in at the end.</p>
<p>The teachers apparently felt that my son is improving. Despite his report card, I was told that he got a 92/100 on his assessment of skills test. </p>
<p>I pointed out that he seems to do well in “play-type” activities, like gym, but gets comments like “not working to ability” in art. Same thing for behavior – gets good marks for working with peers, bad marks for organization, working independently. Their opinion is that he is “capable” of the work, but that he has trouble being independent, likely being a maturity issue that they feel is improving. The math teacher said that she needs to come over and “pay attention to him” to get him moving.</p>
<p>I told them that I am shocked because his behavior at home as far as doing homework has been much worse and that taking the TV and video games away did nothing. </p>
<p>The teachers said that they did not like the Everyday Math at first, but that they now feel that it will “improve their state scores”. </p>
<p>One thing pointed out what this weird way they have of doing subtraction, where you start from the left rather than the right. It ends up using extra steps from the traditional method. The teacher mentioned that the children did a math race on the board, and that my son was the only one to get the subtraction right, but he used “my method”-- traditional way of crossing out from the right. She said that it’s ok, but that she’s not ready to teach the other kids that way, because they’ve got to get the other way. Please. </p>
<p>My son’s opposition to writing was only briefly discussed, and at that point I brought up visual-spatial learners. I felt kind of brushed off. I came to the conference with articles regarding visual-spatial learners, stating that I had come to believe that this was a problem, but she did not seem too interested. I ended up giving her the articles and suggesting that she look at them in her free time.</p>
<p>All in all, I don’t feel very good. On the one hand, I was relieved that they were not there to “give bad news”. On the other hand, I have this feeling that their standards for my son are not what mine are. I pointed out that my son can do these amazing puzzles and that if he can get a 92/100 on an assessment, then with better learning methods, he could be doing even better. But I don’t think that they cared. I think that if my son “behaves” like a good little student and does his busywork and can get a 65/100, they wouldn’t complain. I am still left with the feeling that my only options are to find a way out of the school or to supplement him at home.</p>
<p>So I came home and printed out tests from Singapore Math so that I can assess where my son is. He’s done the first test, for 1A (I would think this must be Kindergarten for Singapore math) and he got an 80% (which I think is unacceptable for 3rd grade!). So now he is taking the test for 1B and we will see.</p>
<p>I am not kidding, he came home with this mathbox the other day that made absolutely no obvious sense. It was like a grid, like a blank number puzzle, and you would assume that the numbers have to multiply correctly both vertically and horizontally. But it was not like that at all, it was more like multiplying on a triangle in the grid. I mean, we did not have any idea what to do just by looking at it. My daughter and I were watching American Idol and looking at it in between commercials, nothing in the student reference book, no example on the homework paper. And then she figured it out about 1/2 an hour later. It was ridiculous.</p>
<p>*/ 6 8
5 30 40
7 42 56</p>
<p>That’s how it ended up being, but there were numbers missing when you started it, so it made absolutely no sense!!!</p>
<p>I would add another vote for some testing. Could be ADD without the hyperactivity.
I would also suggest you have the testing done outside the school district. At my son’s elementary school he was tested by interns from the local University not by someone with experience. Also the school sometimes has an incentive to not find anything wrong because they don’t want to pay for it.</p>
<p>Our district uses the “Investigations” curriculum. Awful, absolutely awful. And the kids are required to keep Math journals and write down their thinking strategies for solving all the problems. My son detested it, and it was a huge waste of time, with everyone “sharing” their strategies for solving things. It’s supposed to show academic rigor in the learning and metacognition skills (with the kids using all the right buzz words and vocabulary in their explanations), but it is just awful to expect them to do this every day for all activities!!! My son could solve the problems quickly - the writing how he solved it, not so fast.</p>
<p>" am not kidding, he came home with this mathbox the other day that made absolutely no obvious sense. It was like a grid, like a blank number puzzle, and you would assume that the numbers have to multiply correctly both vertically and horizontally. But it was not like that at all, it was more like multiplying on a triangle in the grid"</p>
<p>They call this a “lattice” here and we can’t figure it out and I flat out refuse to try.</p>
<p>Using my method on his homework, my son was able to add and subtract about 10 triple digit math problems (ex: 942-675) within a few minutes. The trouble was getting him to realize that he should start it. After I told him “Just use Mommy’s way”, he willingly did it. </p>
<p>One thing that I also brought up is that my son has this tendency to hone right in on the math problem on the page that he thinks will be hard. He doesn’t just start with the first problem and work his way down. So he gets upset about that problem at the bottom of the page and doesn’t get started. I mentioned this to the teacher, and she told me that I should spend 10 minutes with him on the hardest problem, and that maybe then he’ll be less reluctant to go back and do the others himself.</p>
<p>Marnik, our district switched from Everyday Math to Connected Math… and scores went UP 30%. So yes, there is a curriculum worse than Connected Math…</p>
<p>A few things about Everyday Math and the math boxes:</p>
<p>On the Math boxes pages the last problem on the page (lower right) and sometimes the 5th one as well (lower left) are actually in preparation for the next unit and are not mastery items for the current lesson. The teacher has a Teacher’s manual which has red stars next to the ones which should be used for assessment of the current skill, usually 2 to 3 per page of 6.</p>
<p>The “hard problems” on the bottom of the Homelinks or Lesson pages are the thinking skills questions. The kids who are intuitive with math just know the answer, and so are loathe to go through the process of explaining. In my experience the ones who are able to explain the process actually do better in Algebra, where the steps are necessary or in Geometric proofs, where the steps are necessary as well. </p>
<p>The grid and the lattice are two different things. The grid you are referring to is simply multiplying the two numbers and filling in, but you figured that out. My students actually enjoy this, since it is just a puzzle. </p>
<p>The lattice is another method of multiplying. EDM actually does teach the traditional way of doing multiplication first, and then introduces the lattice method. Actually, when we do lattice, the kids ask me why I didn’t teach them that first, since they find it easier. It is simply another method of multiplying, and the answers are the same. No, it is not the way we learned, but it is the way I was taught to teach my kids in the Montessori School I taught in in Italy. </p>
<p>I am not an EDM apologist, but some of the statements I have read here are just not correct. EDM is very heavy on problem solving, and Everyday Math Games is an integral part of the curriculum, while group work is not. Sometimes they work with their partners, but most often they work independently and the journal is independent work. If the journal is being sent home it is unfinished classwork, since the Homelinks is the homework. </p>
<p>There is a parent letter which is to be sent home with the Homelinks for each unit. This 4 page letter explains the concepts and actually has the answers to the problems. Ask the teacher about this letter for each unit. I actually send all of the homework pages for the unit together at the beginning of the unit with the dates for each lesson on the front. So parents receive the lesson dates, the parent letter, and the Homelinks pages for each lesson in one packet.</p>
<p>Our school does have a 90 minute math block and we are currently 1 unit ahead of the district pacing guide. Third graders should be in Unit 8 this time of year, so I would be interested to know where the OP’s son is in his third grade curriculum. </p>
<p>I do believe that the EDM curriculum is more for math lovers and I doubt that most primary teachers are prepared to teach beyond the rote way they were taught. Sorry if I offend, but primary teachers are more likely to be reading experts and love reading than math experts. Through many Navy moves and different state requirements I began as a secondary science teacher and now I teach primary so I have some comfort with math. </p>
<p>I do agree that the kiddos that begin with EDM in k have a much easier time than children who begin it in the higher grades. </p>
<p>I am thinking Asperger’s syndrome for the OPs son. Might be worth a visit to the pediatrician. Oh, BTW, school districts do not diagnose medical issues. Nor do teachers. In our district we cannot even mention the possibility to a parent. It is a medical diagnosis and we are not physicians. </p>
<p>What would the OP like the teacher to do? If it takes Mom 1.5 hours to get the kid to do the work with the leverage a parent has and limited distractions, how is the teacher supposed to get the child to do the work in class? Perhaps using a timer would help. We have done this with similar children (okay, let’s see how many you can get done before the timer goes off in 2 minutes) and this has been effective. It is interesting that you mentioned passive aggressive, since it seems this is the method that is being used for avoidance.</p>
<p>Anyway, to paraphrase a book title “So Long a Letter…” Just a lot to say. BTW, our school was just recognized as a National Distinguished School for Sustained Academic Excellence and we have been using Everyday Math for the past 6 years.</p>
<p>One of the biggest mistakes I made as a parent when it came to my daughter’s education was not fighting the use of standards-based math (Everyday Math, Connected Math, etc.). Even in retrospect I’m not sure what I would have done to fight it, so I’m not sure I can give any good advice – but I can support the OP and other’s efforts to work outside the system. </p>
<p>I am convinced that the use of these math programs at our schools is one reason why so many kids here do relatively poorly on their SATs. There are more lopsided scores in this district – case after case of kids getting between 750 and 800 in CR and between 600 and 650 in math. Many kids who are naturally inclined to math do well on their math SATs, but the ones who need to work at it (like my daughter) do poorly. We hired a tutor for her, who basically had to unteach her everything she knew in math and reteach her how to do SAT math problems (and raised her math SAT score 140 points as a result).</p>
<p>The problem with fighting the system is that the statewide tests that are used for NCLB test kids on standards-based math, so the schools have to use these programs. My understanding is that there is some backlash (finally) from the national math association that pushed these programs in the first place. This association is finally realizing that perhaps standards-based math isn’t the best. However, it will take years for that changed policy to filter down to the individual school level.</p>
<p>So, my sympathies with anyone who is having to deal with these programs. They are horrible.</p>
<p>I remember the grids/lattices all too well! They were NO fun for my child despite what the well-meaning teacher said about making it a game. She would literally have spent hours trying to complete them. </p>
<p>Flash forward to high school geometry. It quickly became apparent that there was a mild visual disturbance that prevented her from easily seeing superimposed geomtric shapes as a “normal” person would. She could do side-by-side comparisons of, for instance, triangle A and B, but could not see “shapes within shapes”, for example, angle ABD which was contained within angle ABC. She had to trace the angles using different colored pencils to see the different angles with shared lines. Her disability, which we had professionally tested outside the school, was not standard dyslexia, but was a measurable “visual disability”.</p>
<p>In any case, I suspect that many of the difficulties she encountered with EDM were traceable to this unsuspected LD. BTW, the only time the LD was problematic was certain types of geometry problems and, I suspect, the EDM grids and unnusual “patterning” required for basic operations, i.e. subtraction. Like the OP’s son, she had no trouble doing subtraction “my” way. </p>
<p>I find it truly sad that in a country like ours, OP (and us) have no options other than changing schools or homeschooling to avoid a curriculum that is not teaching our children basic skills.</p>
<p>Again, grids and lattices are two different things. EDM teaches the lattice method of multiplication, but then on subsequent assessments does not require the use of lattices, but actually says to use any method. This applies as well to the different methods of adding and subtracting. After the introduction of these methods the assessments actually say to use the students’ favorite method. If that is “Mom’s method” then fine.</p>
<p>Make sure that the teachers are also only basing the test scores on the A portion of the Unit Assessment. The B portion is not meant to measure mastery. The 2006 edition of EDM is the most recent and has addressed some of the concerns that are cited here, and having used both I can seriously say that the newest edition is a great improvement over the last edition. </p>
<p>It really sounds as if there are many issues here</p>
<p>a) lack of fidelity/professional development in the implementation of the program</p>
<p>b) lack of communication with parents about the reasons for various approaches</p>
<p>c) lack of trust on the part of the parents when faced with approaches which are unfamiliar</p>
<p>d) lack of accountability for students (They are in class all day, parents are not, if they can’t begin to do the work or explain it to parents on a consistent basis, then what are they doing during class?) I always tell my parents to give it 20 minutes, then drop it. If a student can’t finish the 1 page Homelink in 20 minutes they need additional instruction and that is my job, not the parents’. Besides, as y’all have noted, the parents are often not familiar enough with the particular method being taught to be of any assistance.</p>
<p>It seems a bit unfair to dismiss a whole pedagogical approach because it does not suit students with LD, and an undiagnosed LD at that. Presumably, the overwhelming majority of students do not have LD.
As for the utility of EDM for the overwhelming majority of students, I have no opinion. As I’ve written before, my S did not make use of it, although it was introduced when he was in third grade.</p>
<p>I have heard that EDM is good for the kids in the middle. This is great, because these are most of the kids, but leaving behind the kids on either end is also a big problem.</p>
<p>This was also the curriculum that sent home parent/child assignments including: “Take your child to the grocery store. Have the child compare prices and sizes. Bring back completed assignment tomorrow.” Sorry, 3 little kids, I drop everything after returning from work and we run to the store??? That one went back with note to teacher, who was understanding and apologetic. </p>
<p>I remember another one asking the child to do some comparisons and computations which included my age and my husband’s age. That also went back incomplete - our ages were no one’s business.</p>
<p>My experience with EDM was in its earliest days and lasted for 2 years. I hope that anyone who is using it now is using an improved curriculum that benefitted from the feed-back of early teachers, students and parents.</p>
<p>Whatapainthisis, you state that your son doesn’t get started on his math in school. Does he start all of his other work right away? This is very important to find out. If math is the only problem, then I would suggest thatgetting outside tutoring (or doing it yourself with a good math program) might be enough. Not doing well in the school math curriculum in elementary school is not the end of the world … but you still have to figure out a way to help him learn the basics of math that 3rd graders should learn. If you need to find an alternative method of teaching him, then you need to do that. If he had trouble learning to read, you’d get him a tutor or help him yourself; this is no different. </p>
<p>On the other hand, if he is having trouble getting started on ALL of his in-school assignments, you might want to talk to his pediatrician. I see many, many kids in my travels as a substitute teacher, and I have seen my share of kids who accomplish nothing all day long. It’s not like they are this way on purpose … but if the only way to get a kid to work is to sit with him and guide him along, there is a problem. I am not an expert, and I don’t pretend to know the reasons why a child acts this way … I just know that they aren’t working, and I think that’s a concern. If it were my child, I would want a professional to help me figure out what to do to change the situation. Again, if it’s only math that is an issue for your son, then that is probably the extent of the problem. But if his “reluctance” to start work is an issue in other subjects, there may be more to it. I would start with his pediatrician. (In our state, we also have intermediate school districts, and they will do testing.)</p>
<p>I teach EveryDay Math, and it gets a lot harder in 3rd grade. I do think that it’s a good program, particularly for the top kids. Weaker students really struggle with it. My district supplements it with mandatory fact practice (Fast Math) and we also teach the “old fashioned” algorithms so that students and parents who cannot relate to, say, lattice multiplication, can do it their own way. I’ve taught it in grades 3-5, and never really appreciated the “spiraling curriculum” until I taught 5th grade and it all came together. Our kids then go on to Transition Math in 7th grade and high school algebra in 8th. My own children did well with it, and both scored in the mid 500s on the Math SAT in 7th grade (Johns Hopkins program) and high 600s on 10th grade PSATs, so whatever they did in elementary school must have worked.</p>
<p>
This is a shame, momof1. It was the principal of my son’s new school who kindly suggested ADD in second grade. While clearly stating that it was a diagnosis that needed to be made by an MD, she sugggested that many of the behaviors son exhibited were common in the ADD kids she had taught over many years. No other teacher or administrator had even hinted at an ADD posibility. “Boy with a Late August birthday” and “immaturity” were the lazy answers we’d get about his inability to complete assignments. What a blessing her willingness to share her expertise has been to our family.</p>
<p>Now as a sixth grader, his teacher told me that son is the “classic” ADD kid. He is doing beautifully & it is obvious that the teacher who made this statement is very fond of him. As teachers spend more time with our kids than any other adults, it’s a shame that some districts would make teachers afraid to offer objective observations about their students that could alert parents of problems and set them on the path to solutions.</p>
<p>Musicianmom- we don’t send those ones home LOL.</p>