<p>It is not that we are afraid, we are prohibited. I really appreciate what you are saying, and you seem to have realized that the professionals who see hundreds of children over decades may have some insight into causation and just where children are on the “normal” continuum. Remember, though, that you are in the minority. Most parents are not open to the suggestion that there may be something outside of the norm with their child and accuse the teachers of being lazy or just wanting to medicate children. </p>
<p>I remember one parent years ago, before the prohibition, who was very vocal and angry when the idea of a pediatric evaluation was brought up. She did end up making an appointment with the pediatrician and requested a letter detailing observations which she could take with her. When the doctor read the letter I wrote she didn’t even have me do the usual checksheet, but diagnosed the child on the spot and prescribed meds. </p>
<p>Fast forward a few months, kid is doing great but has grown and is beginning to show some of the same behaviors as before. This time when I call mom she is on board and SHE says “I’ve noticed this too. He probably needs his meds increased.” Could have knocked me over with a feather, but when a kid needs it, it is soooo apparent that it helps.</p>
<p>Sticker Shock thanks for the open mind and the acceptance of the suggestion of an education professional. I do think it is interesting, though, that it was the principal, not the teacher who made the suggestion. If you think back to the way it was couched, it was probably something to the effect of “Has Johnny ever been evaluated for ADD?” which is permissible.</p>
<p>Biohelpmom, I’m taking your post to heart. I hope it does get better. I don’t think I’m in denial (who ever does, LOL), but my son is realy good at math, understands the concepts has been very far ahead of his class every year but this one (4th). It really looks to my untrained eye that he’s being held back by the curriculum, that he’s being forced to do something that comes naturally in an unnatural way. I think he could be a lot further along in terms of actual topics if he didn’t have to learn four different ways to multiply when he has known how to multiply and divide multiple digits for at least three years. We haven’t yet reached the point where he’s allowed to do the math in the way he chooses, but perhaps that’s coming up. I can only hope.</p>
<p>Zoosermom- I’ve always appreciated your posts! I think that, like every curriculum out there, districts need to use the parts that work and supplement the parts that don’t. When we first started EM, the parents were up in arms and protested vehemently against it. Now that our state test scores have gone through the roof, everyone is happy. The children I feel sorry for are the LD kids who need a different program. This one is so language based that if you can’t read well, it’s just impossible.</p>
<p>I have mixed feelings about math curriculum. It seemed like our school changed them every couple of years. Whatever they used it spiraled - the fall was always graphs. The last one I know they adopted was TERC. They were very excited about it and presented it at a PTA meeting. (But even with TERC they did spend time drilling math facts.)There was a fair amount of use of manipulatives and pattern blocks. They got introduced to Lattice Multiplication, but no one took it too seriously. Mathson would probably have done well with anything, but I think it expanded his horizons to learn more than one way to skin a cat. Mathson’s little brother has short term memory issues, and would have far preferred learning just ONE way to a thing. He was the very last kid in his class to learn his multiplication tables. He wrote slowly too, he never did pass a Math Minute test except when he did it orally.</p>
<p>Interestingly every year the fifth grade kids would list math as their favorite subject. Mathson got stellar scores in 7th grade on the SAT and even little brother who is Mr. Right Brain scored over 500. So I think that at least for my kids the math program worked pretty well.</p>
<p>Absolutely, momof1. Completely diplomatic. Diplomacy is a skill all principals need to master! We had just transfered son to our local public school that year. The teacher, unfortunately, was a nut. Infact, DYSFS had been brought into her classroom in the past as she’d been reported by a student’s therapist. She was also caught using class time to send personal e-mails while giving her 2nd graders a big stack of worksheets to complete. A very cruel woman. A narcissist. Imagine a 7 year old ADD kid being haned ten worksheets to do in a big, overwhelming pile. Son was always the last kid dismissed, sitting in tears with unfinished work. I’d go in the class to retrieve him & she would berate him in an odd, sing songy voice. Saying things like “If your son doesn’t learn to finish his work, we won’t let him go on the class trip next week, or march in the school Halloween parade.” As I knew her crazy reputation, I arranged a principal meeting & it was as if a light bulb came on. Of course! Maybe it’s ADD! When the principal learned of the punititive approach this nutty teacher was taking she, again, diplomatically told me how I could get around the district policy of not allowing kids to move to a different teacher in the middle of a school year – a carefully worded letter from the pediatrician. She told me flat out that she’d support that move & knew the superindendant would, as well. That was courageous, on her part, becasue after my son was moved I know at least a DOZEN parents whos had kids stuck with the nut also asked for a move.</p>
<p>I imagine it is quite frustrating for teachers to have to tiptoe around the obvious. Just from my very limited time teaching Sunday school or running brownie troops, I can see that kids act very, very differently in large group settings & it’s fascinating to see the interactions & different maturity levels. Teachers being prohibited from offering their expertise is so wrong! Nobody sees more kids working side by side, has studied child development, & would be more qualified to note any deviations from normal development. Luckily we haven’t had too many bad teachers – it just happened to be his first experience at the new school that was a nightmare.</p>
<p>Just wanted to mention that in any interaction with teachers, H & I always open the conversation with “We need your advice.” I think that sets the tone. If I didn’t respect the teacher, I wouldn’t give a hoot about her opinion. Diplomacy all around is a good thing, because once It’s clear that both teacher & parent want what’s best for the child, frank conversations can happen.</p>
<p>Yes, parents need to be diplomatic, but they also need to advocate for their kids. And to do that, they need information and evidence. That’s why several of us are suggesting testing and testing that is independent of the school system is probably preferable. You need to understand how he learns in order to advocate for him effectively at school and to best help him at home. It will cost some money and take some time but it is a worthwhile investment in your child’s academic and emotional future.</p>
<p>I will add that I think it is probably too much to expect a teacher with a classroom full of kids to research an individual child’s learning style and figure out accomodations for that student. However, many teachers would be happy to implement recommendations from a professional that are based on assessment results.</p>
<p>Actually, one thing that the teacher mentioned to me is that my son always volunteers to read outloud in class, that he seems to really enjoy that, and his ability to read outloud is very good. </p>
<p>This sort of surprised me because he has developed a hostility towards reading at home. Given his refusal to do his “reading for pleasure” and log it for homework, I don’t know where his reading ability is coming from.</p>
<p>Yesterday, we went to the library and my son was nasty and refused to look at books and stated that he did not want anything. Then he found some book on Spider-man that was 300+ pages long and we did not let him check that out. So he pouted and refused to look at anything, while I went looking for a Spider-man book more to his age range. I located one, and he didn’t want to look at it. Then I located some Math riddle books that were well reviewed, and he actively tried to prevent me from getting them. Finally, we said “Heck with you” and we actually went to check out, with NOTHING for him. That’s when he started whining that he wanted books, and he retrieved ALL of the books. Today he came in my office and started reading me sections of this Spider-man book, very fluently, at a mile a minute.</p>
<p>This reminds me of an incident a few months back where my son fluently and quickly read Freckle Juice in 1/2 an hour, while I sat by astonished, because he knew he couldn’t swim with his friend unless he did his homework. He actually had to do a book report on that the same evening and I didn’t know how it was going to get done because he was reading SOOOO SLOOOWWWWLY up until then whenever he had to read, sighing the whole time. I had attributed this to his poor vision and need for glasses having turned him off of reading. But after this incident, I commented on how fast he read it, and he said “I just wanted to get it over with”.</p>
<p>Today he is saying that he’d like to go back to the library and he’d like to see books on “chemicals” because my daughter (senior in high school) refused to tell him what she did in her chemistry class and he wants to know. He also wants books on “building things” since I told him that his interest and ability in 3-d puzzles seems to indicate and aptitude for building things. I’m not sure what books would interest him with in that area.</p>
<p>I’m not sure I want to take him there again at all. I feel like my chain is being jerked.</p>
<p>I’m puzzled why you wouldn’t let your son check out the big Spiderman book. So what if it was long and written above his grade level? That’s how mathson learned so much math. He struggled with books that were too hard for him. His little brother went straight from Nate the Great to Harry Potter. He struggled with Harry Potter, but because he was desperate to read it he did. And by the time he’d finished it, he was reading fluently. He went from pre-primer level to a fourth grade reading level in less than a year. I’m not sure your chain is being jerked. I feel like you’re jerking his chain. It’s one thing if you won’t let a kid have a book because you think he’s emotionally not ready for it, it’s too violent etc. But I have the sense that you just thought it was “too hard”. I don’t think that’s a good enough reason.</p>
<p>We let our son take out anything he wanted in the library. I agree with mathmom that you might want to look at why you feel you need to control your son’s reading.</p>
<p>After I posted, I KNEW posts about “controlling” would come up. When a young boy manages to irritate his parents, his sister (very mature, studious, and well-behaved now, not so much at my son’s age), and his grandmother, then who is doing the controlling? When a teacher says that a child is able to do work after he gets attention, who is doing the controlling?</p>
<p>The last time my son went to the library, he picked a dragon book that is about 300 pages long, no pictures at all, that he INSISTED that he’d read, despite my statements that it was too long. Guess where it is? Still not read, not even moved from the spot where it was left the day that it was brought home. </p>
<p>So the purpose of our trip was for him to get books that he’d actually read. </p>
<p>We would have allowed him to read ANY topic that he’d be interested in, but he needed to stick to children’s books. The book that he picked was for at least a middle schooler. My goal is to get him to read and enjoy it. If he picks books way beyond his abilities, that gives him more reason to say “I hate reading” and to avoid it altogether.</p>
<p>Because of the way he behaves, it’s hard to determine if he has a legitimate learning difficulty, or if he’s just lazy, obstinate, or all of the above.</p>
<p>Also, I wanted to mention that I jumped into Stephen King books and the thick books when I was about 12. My mother had no part in this, she never even screened my topics. She just took me to the library. But the difference is that I actually enjoyed going to the library, I actually went off on my own and enjoyed picking out books. My son seems to refuse to develop an interest in reading to be stubborn. He also says things like “School is a waste of time except for gym and music. It takes my play time”. He associates reading with school.</p>
<p>Also, I couldn’t have been able to discern if that book was appropriate, it was at least 300 pages long. It could have contained inappropriate things. If the truth be told, I’d like him to read things with more substance than comics. When my daughter was young, I bought her books that taught character and I think that she was the better for it. I believe in using books for character education, and I have selected books for that purpose, even if he has not read them. For instance, he never bothered with this book Sadako, but when his class learned about Japan, he seemed interested to tell me about it. I reminded him that he owns it, and he did get it out and read it.</p>
<p>My son cannot just pick out a book and not read it. Not only is it a wasted library trip and takes away the right of someone who really wants to read it, but my son is REQUIRED to read every night. My son has to fill out a log every night verifying that he read for 20 minutes, the title, the author, how many pages. And I have to initial that at the end of the week. NOT READING is not an option. If he a) picks nothing b) picks stuff that he can’t really read just based on a cover and title, and then avoids reading it because it’s too long c) refuses to read what I pick, then where does that leave him? Reading nothing, learning nothing. Not complying with his school requirements. Causing me to leave my signature off of his log so that I then have to hear from the teacher about “We need this log in case we are audited by the state”. It’s my job as his parent to give him access to books that interest him and to direct him towards books that he can actually read. In fact, I think that is also the librarian’s job!</p>
<p>This thread has gone well beyond the merits or lack thereof of EDM. The OP’s son seems to have problems with authority, the teacher’s and the parents.
My S began reading long chapter books in 3rd grade because he liked the volunteer who led a group of 4th graders in reading Redwall, which is over 300 pages long…<br>
I would allowed the boy to borrow the Spiderman book but also suggested a shorter one as well. The boy might have read both by now. This seems to have turned into a battle of wills from which no one, especially the boy, will benefit.</p>
<p>wow. i don’t think it’s your son’s fault at all, but more like the school’s fault for destroying his interest in learning with their stupid, inefficient, and uninteresting methods. send him to private school 8)</p>
<p>My little charmer has to read every day and record a log. I don’t particularly have a problem with it and neither does he because he’s a reader, but he’s extremely picky about what he reads. He likes mysteries and fantasy/action books a lot. I’d have the devil of a time with him if he wasn’t able to choose his own books. His teacher is quite strict but I have to say that I think that’s good for this particular child and I’ve come to really understand that being so much younger than the siblings he’s just a bit immature. I think his teacher recognized that before I did and I’m grateful.</p>
<p>Can’t you get a bag full of books and let him choose his favorites? Our library loved to see my son coming. They said he increased their circulation and gave them evidence that they needed more funding. There were plenty of books left for everyone else.</p>
<p>My kids liked to read, but they hated filling out reading logs. It just seemed like this might be one of those choose your battle situations. Get the book he wants, even if he just looks at it, and then get some books that he’s more likely to read. I spent a lot of years doing Reading is Fundamental where it was drummed into our heads that the way to get kids to read was to let them choose their own books. :)</p>