<p>GFG, gotta be there to speak for others. My MIL was from VA, lived in the north for 50 years, did keep her thick accent to the end- and was very tired of people assuming about her because of that. Lovely, kind woman who rarely vocalized complaints except on two issues: overt poor manners and people prejudging others. </p>
<p>You’re still asking the recipient to endure, rather than asking the sayer to consider. Diversity doesn’t mean the diverse set themselves on display for unfiltered questions. It means the experiences together should trump. And, after the hundredth time these assumptions are voiced, yes, you can expect the recipient to be tired of them.</p>
<p>Tired of them. Not out to start a revolution. Not looking for reparations.<br>
Some of these sorts of questions or statements ARE based on preconceived notions- how do we ignore that? “Sarah is basing her assumptions on skin color.” Exactly. </p>
<p>“Sarah is basing her assumptions on skin color” - Okay, your MIL is white and has a southern accent. I ask you if you can tell she is southern just by looking at her. Is anyone going to make any snap judgments about her based on her appearance? The answer would probably be ‘no’. Snap judgments based on skin color happen every day. If you don’t agree, just talk to any professional black man. I only know one who hasn’t been pulled over at some time for driving while black. Ask your white professional friends the same question and I think that you will get a very different answer. Women cross to the other side of the street or clutch their purses more tightly when my very dear friend is walking down a sidewalk. This is despite the fact that he is 57 year-old professional and wearing an Armani suit. If you have never been on the receiving end of this, you have absolutely no basis for judgment. </p>
<p>I didn’t see the project as whining about life experiences. I saw it as possibly students who may have approached Harvard with a naivete that they wouldn’t experience the snap judgments at Harvard that they had been exposed to previously and were surprised when they encountered the same issues at Harvard that they encountered elsewhere. Also, for the first time, they ‘found’ each other and started comparing experiences. I know for a fact that my son was usually the only black male in his AP/honors classes in HS. Now that he is in college, he found other black males who are also academically advanced.</p>
<p>These students are trying to raise awareness about the everyday subtle racist comments that people make without being cognizant of the fact that they are racist. If you aren’t aware of a problem, you can’t change/fix it. Not talking about a problem, doesn’t make it go away. If you were ill, you wouldn’t say, “Oh. I just won’t mention that I have strep throat because I don’t want to appear to be whining.” No, you would go to the doctor, tell the doctor you were sick and get antibiotics. </p>
<p>That fact that certain comments bother the students and they happen to be people of color, does not make the comments racist. The fact that anyone questions the assumption all these comments are racist, does not mean the questioner is racist. Neither events 50 years ago nor the fact that people in the street behaved in a racist manner to someone’s black friend yesterday, has bearing on whether any remarks cited in this project are racist. The fact that those on the receiving end are black, doesn’t give those comments some special weighted status that makes them so much worse than any other rude comment made to any other person. And the fact that they see some of the comments as subtly racist, means they need to examine whether they are classist. Lastly, if the students were truly concerned about snap judgments based only on skin color, then they would plan to include comments made by people of other races to white people.</p>
<p>GEG, I think you’re reading what these kids are doing completely wrong. I don’t think they’re ANGRY, as you assume, or are manufacturing outrage or playing the victim. I think that, based on my own experience through my H and D and in-laws, that they are, as lookingforward says, TIRED of these ignorant comments and want to call them out. And that’s all.</p>
<p>But what really bothers me about your comments in the last few posts is that you’re assuming a single “black culture” that uninformed white people are assigning to these Harvard kids, who are then offended at being labeled as equal to the blacks in that subculture you keep talking about. I think you’re doing exactly what the kids are calling out, and you don’t see a problem with it.</p>
<p>THAT is the problem the kids are addressing! There IS no one subculture! My BIL has lived in Canada for 30 years, and he speaks differently than H, who’s lived in Seattle most of his life. They in turn sound different from D’s friend who grew up in the deep South. And all of them sound different from a friend of mine who grew up in NYC. But…all of them have been told they “don’t sound black” and are “articulate for a black person”. The subtext is that most black people sound ignorant and/or are poor speakers. That’s because others, like you’ve been doing, assume there is a single black “subculture” to which they all belong. </p>
<p>But it isn’t just about language. It’s about people who think for example, that all blacks like rap music, when the biggest audience of rap is white teens.It’s assuming a black kid in an all-white class is from “the ghetto” because that’s where blacks live. It all goes back to this mythical subculture you’ve mentioned, one that doesn’t exist. It might, on TV or in movies. But in real life, there’s a whole lot more to blacks, or people of any race. No one should have to spend their lives explaining that to others.</p>
<p>If we didnt have people like Caprice Hollins, former director of equity & race relations for Seattle public schools, it would be easier to work with improving education for all students.</p>
<p>This was ms Hollins stated view of cultural racism.
</p>
<p>I dont understand how expecting african american students to use standard english hurts them.
Wouldnt it be the opposite?</p>
<p>She went on to say that only whites were racist, and that everyone north of the ship canal was elitist and everyone south was disenfranchised.
?</p>
<p>I bring this up, because in Seattle schools and other groups spend a lot of time (& money)discussing how to address cultural differences, but it is often a one way dialog, with academics telling others how they think and feel.</p>
<p>The fact that anyone questions the assumption all these comments are racist, does not mean the questioner is racist. Doesn’t make the initial comments okay, either. You keep returning to racism. As if, as long as one isn’t really, in their heart of hearts, “racist,” then it is perfectly ok to make these kinds of statements. </p>
<p>So, I’m at this breakfast for mothers of kids at a fancy NY prep school where my kids go. And one mother starts, “my nephew was at X university, and he has an Asian roommate, and you know how they are all . …” Well, I’m thinking that this is going to be a model minority (racist) story about who the kid gets her nephew studying, but no, no no. She continues, “you know how they are all dirty.” Now my kids are adopted from Asia, and I’ve lived in a couple of Asian countries, and I’ve had a bunch of Asian housemates, but she assume we are all with her on Asians being dirty. . . and she’s right. No one at the table speaks up; so she continues about how her sister flew from the west coast to the east coast and got her son a new roommate by November. At that point, I stand up, speak, and leave knowing that the dozen women at the table would support the holocaust, lynching, and genocide. </p>
<p>White people are very racist. They are just in denial. </p>
<p>Oh mamalion…I rode a public bus in a Catholic School uniform through an area where alot of AA got on. They put their hands up my skirt, spat at me, called me names I wouldn’t repeat…Oh…and let’s not forget (resentments are so self serving) the AA bus driver who would fly past our stop with an empty bus (put into service to handle the end of the school day) while waving a rather erect particular finger…</p>
<p>Yup, all AA’s are thugs, but they are in denial.</p>
<p>A good sign to include in their project, to be held by a white person: “White people are all racist.”
Another: “And white people who think they aren’t racist are in such denial.”
And a minor one I would include, based on personal experience: “You white people are so uptight.”</p>
<p>But they didn’t do that. Why do you think that was their point? Have you had one moment where you said to yourself, “oh, maybe this sort of commenting IS obnoxious?” Even if you followed with a “haha, not me.” You’re mocking them. </p>
<p>Their message DID reach you. It is making you very uncomfortable.</p>
<p>Made me, too. Because we do do these things. Awareness is good. Being willing to examine, once in a while, is good.</p>
<p>Dietz, I don’t know where you rode buses, but I’ve lived in many majority minority cities in the U.S. and been the only white on so many buses and subways. I never had your experiences. Yep, I’ve been mugged, but some how getting mugged by a junkie or two is very different than sitting at a table with a bunch of other middle class, white women listening to hate speech and not having anyone express as much as a little discomfort. </p>
<p>sitting at a table with a bunch of other middle class, white women listening to hate speech and not having anyone express as much as a little discomfort</p>
<p>Why do you choose to have your kids attend a school with their kids?
Surely there are many other choices you could have made.
Mammalion, you do realize that you are discounting the experience of Dietz, just because you don’t share it?
That seems closeminded to me.</p>
<p>My kids go to this school because demonstrated racism on campus results in expulsion, unlike the public schools. In the public schools there are minimal mechanisms for dealing with racism. Emerald, you don’t really think racism only exists in certain integrated schools and people of color should just pick the right school to escape racist attacks. That is, it’s their fault for not picking the right school. </p>
<p>In some matters being closed-minded is not so bad. I don’t entertain arguments for the inferiority of woman or the usefulness of torture. I certainly need more evidence than an internet anecdote to accept the general claims that Deitz made about black thugs.</p>
<p>But mamalion, why should we accept your internet anecdote then? Is dietz’s story any less believable just because you disagree with his/her conclusions or didn’t experience the same thing? It can’t be a one way street here.</p>
<p>mamalion: rode the bus in SF, with kids bussed in from Hunters Point and the Western Addition…in the 1970’s…eventually changed routes and added about 50% travel time. But at least I wasn’t getting groped. (oh if only they would have JUST touched my hair Which I guess is a no-no as the signs say. But my experience is just…well…you know…that white thing.</p>
<p>Oh and that was the time Afro’s were in style and may an individual carried the long pronged metal comb in their hair. Those were particularly painful when jabbed. </p>
<p>Yup…it was the 70’s but that is nothing compared to going back 100+ years when pulling up examples of bigotry and applying them to oneself.</p>
<p>GFG, you’ve mentioned a couple of times now that the project should have included kids of other races holding signs with comments made to them by blacks. Except-this projects was for a black theater program, initiated by black student who interviewed other black students about black student experiences. Perhaps she or someone else, as with the other project mentioned upthread, could do a multiracial project, but THIS one was never intended to be multiracial. That doesn’t make it any less valid. It also doesn’t mean, and never did mean, that these black students believe they are the only ones experiencing racism or ignorance. </p>
<p>Two responses and then I’m moving on: (1) There is a core difference between a white saying blacks are thugs and a white saying whites are racist. One is throwing stones at other people, and one is being critically aware of what one’s own group does. (2) This leads to the second point. It is very hard to escape racism in society unless you are white. One of the ways one can protect one’s children is to place them in an environment that doesn’t tolerate racism. Many private schools, such as ours, have a zero tolerance for racism, but they have no control over what happens off their campus. Now I could place my kids in the local public school, but they would have fewer teachers of color, they would have to tolerate racist comment from other kids, and they would a less rigorous education. I have considered moving to a school system that is heavily Asian-American so that the critical mass (say 20%) would form a buffer, but it is unclear to me that works well enough to justify the move.</p>
<p>“That fact that certain comments bother the students and they happen to be people of color, does not make the comments racist”</p>
<p>Now, you are just getting into semantics. The comments that I read were either racist, biased, prejudiced, and/or ignorant. Who gets to be the arbiter of what is racist or not? The fact is that they werel denigrating comments. Telling a black person that they are the whitest black person that they know is without a doubt a biased statement bordering on racist. Furthermore, thinking that it is okay to call someone ‘my ■■■■■’ is racist. Sorry, no way around that one. </p>
<p>Telling someone else how they should feel about a comment that is directed at them is ridiculous. Your feelings are your feelings. If you believe that a comment is racist/biased/prejudiced and you tell the person making the comment your feelings; if that person continues to make the commment because he/she doesn’t believe it is racist/biased/prejudiced, then that person is a complete boor. Once you have expressed your feelings as these students did, then you have educated the ill-informed. If the purpose of the project was to shed light on very poorly conceived comments and provoke discussion, then the students were successful.</p>
<p>I don’t believe in the authority of feelings. Feelings are emotions that may or may not be accurately tied to facts. Furthermore, feelings themselves can be biased by one’s world view. For example, if I believe all white people are racists, then I am more likely to interpret their words and actions in a negative light, and thus will be more likely to FEEL wronged. Of course, certain comments are clearly racist and no one would disagree over those. Others are more debatable. I think it’s only fair for the black students to soul search as to whether they aren’t allowing their prejudiced views of white people to influence their feelings about some of the milder comments, like “Can I touch your hair?” </p>
<p>Here’s a question for you: Do you think if some Harvard students wanted to start a white theater program on campus, that the plan would be tolerated? I would bet my life there’d be major outrage on campus and in the national media. Can I ask why there should be a black theater program then? Seems exclusionary toward non-blacks and suggests that there is a real need to distinguish actors and plays based on some racial criteria. If minority individuals (who do not want to be defined by their skin color) form race-based alliances, then perhaps it’s a bit hypocritical to demand no one lump them into a big group based on just their skin color. </p>
Which I guess is a no-no as the signs say. But my experience is just…well…you know…that white thing.</p>