<p>This thread makes me cringe, too. I have read this whole thread and have participated in it from Day 1. The posts in here are shocking to say the least, but I cannot say such beliefs are unexpected. </p>
<p>Regarding the racist snideness of TheGFG:</p>
<p>“the topic… is {Affirmative Action} because it was revealed… the project was done in response to a Crimson article about Affirmative Action. No one is saying {Affirmative Action} is the sole source of racial antagonism …{Affirmative Action} provides an envelope to wrap {racial antagonism} in.”</p>
<p>I surmise the return address on that envelope would be still be Racist Enclave Mentality, USA, and the contents would be the same old racist xenophobia – except, now, presented in subtext of the defective premise in which the right to endorse the possibility that ignorant racist attitudes exist on campus should be obviated by the presumed effect of Affirmative Action having caused every single culturally-defined “black” person to be in on some kind of waiver. </p>
<p>This unusually egocentric comment: “Shaming your un-informed classmates for expressing an interest in you and or trying to learn more about you and your culture is in poor taste and counterproductive to producing an atmosphere of respect and acceptance” is quite humorous. </p>
<p>In the deranged world of GFG, making socially insensitive or asinine conversation is somehow a blessing to be received by “The Black Peoples and their Culture”. I suppose GFG expects everyone to feel masochistic appreciation towards those who periodically use lame racial stereotypes to strike up a conversation meant for dumbasses. Nothing worse than a disrespecting house “N”.</p>
<p>And, if you haven’t yet figured it out from these projects-to-make-dumb-people-aware, GFG, there is no “your culture” or “my culture”. Apparently the hinting is going over your head, and even the spelling-out of the answer is not working. Maybe it’s the deliberate rigid orthodoxy of the one-sided racist mindset that’s gumming up the works.</p>
<p>:-bd </p>
<p>I admit I did not read the entire thread because I’m guaranteed it would tick me off. My only problem is why people are expected to confront ignoramuses, especially if many of them do not care to learn. Why is it my job to educate them? If you wish to not be called racist, go research how not to be racist rather than getting upset.
A lot of this thread is acting like it’s worse to be called racist rather than to experience racism.</p>
<p>You say “there is no ‘your culture’ or ‘my culture’”? Clearly there is no “our culture” either, or else the Oxford students wouldn’t have needed to ask such silly questions. </p>
<p>I like that one sign in the Oxford thing that says “disagreeing with you doesn’t make me the next Huey Newton”. </p>
<p>I had a feeling when I first saw the “we are Harvard” video that it would kick a hornets nest worth of stuff up into the air.</p>
<p>Claims of institutional racism used to bother me because most institutions really didn’t care what race a person was but they wanted conformity to their rules, standards and practices regardless of who one is or from where they hail. The remedies to racial discrimination do, however, institutionalize racism into our system and into our consciousness almost daily.</p>
<p>I’ve heard many racist comments over the years and have been able to attribute them to racist individuals. I’ve found that in about half my experiences, racist comments come from racial ignorance and insensitivity not from hate. The most recent racial comment came from a white woman dating a black man. Her reasoning was simply “my boyfriend says that all the time.” She should’ve known that what he says in the bedroom should stay in the bedroom but no hate was intended. And now, I hear Hispanics and whites from the hood (Camden and Newark, NJ) saying the “N” word as part of their regular, everyday vernacular. It’s on the streets, in their music and in their comedy. They adopted this supposed term of endearment for one another without any real understanding of the history of that word.</p>
<p>I’m kind of scattered all over the place here but I see a multi-generational, racial, educational and economic gap widening between the races. </p>
<p>The “whitest black person” a white person knows is also the “whitest black person” many blacks know. There is a struggle for identity. To which community does one really belong anymore? Is skin color enough basis to define one’s community? The answer is more and more becoming a resounding no to that question.</p>
<p>The white community is not one, large monolithic community. The black community was united by history, subjugation and oppression. Now, the black community is walking several divergent paths which is making unity and identity more complicated. Does a Harvard educated black woman want to share and participate in the same community that appreciates and defends a black meth fiend and felon. I bet the Harvard bred African American wants a community that appreciates her accomplishments and aspires to join her in ambition, growth and accomplishment. Sometimes, she will only see resentment, jealousy and anger coming her way. The community accepts the felon who never achieved but never left sometimes more than the PhD that had to leave to find success and never went back.</p>
<p>I think what those students at Harvard did was admirable, maybe necessary. Necessary more for them in their quest to identify an define who their community is. Remember, in all this racially charged discussion, these students are saying “I am Harvard.” Harvard is their community and they embrace that. Harvard is not a race so they are making less of a racial statement than they are of an identity statement. Their identity is bigger than race.</p>
<p>Too much of the discussion here is centered on race so I think that piece is being obscured. They are saying to stop seeing a color or pigment and start recognizing that we are a part of this (Harvard) community.</p>
<p>Like the Puerto Rican & white kids I deal with in Camden, NJ that are part of a community that refers to themselves affectionately by the “N” word. I see two lessons in all of this. 1. Pick your community wisely. 2. Your community is not your race, not anymore.</p>
<p>My only problem with this discussion is what I’m seeing as the presumption that the only people who get these kind of ignorant comments are people of color. While I agree that they are most commonly directed at POC, white kids aren’t immune to them. One difference is that most white kids have a layer of privilege to insulate them from some of the comments.</p>
<p>A sampling of comments I or my kids have been subjected to. Most of them happened when we were in situations when as a white person we were in the minority.</p>
<p>“Why are you so pale?”</p>
<p>“You can’t understand struggle. You’ve never struggled. You’re a white girl.”</p>
<p>“Can you pop those things?” (freckles)</p>
<p>“Do black people scare you?” (No, the man weaving down the sidewalk, paper bagged bottle in hand, mumbling to himself scared her. The fact that he was black was incidental)</p>
<p>“Cool jazz listening, Bermuda shorts wearing, country club going cracker!” (From one of DS’s good friends. It was said as a joke and understood as one. No harm, no foul.)</p>
<p>“Ashy. You don’t know what that means, do you?” Then to her friend, “Of course she doesn’t, she’s white.”
(For the record, I did know what it means. This one was a little confusing for me because it came out of nowhere. Two girls were having a discussion about how the dry weather was affecting their skin as I was checking out their library books. The aforementioned comment was made in a confrontational tone as if to challenge me to “reveal” my ignorance.)</p>
<p>“One difference is that most white kids have a layer of privilege to insulate them from some of the comments.”</p>
<p>And that’s the rub. A rude comment about my color, if it happened at Harvard (very unlikely!), can’t be understood to mean that my sort of folks don’t belong at Harvard. That’s not even a question. Harvard was founded by and for white people, even as the understanding of who counted as “white” changed over time. I don’t have to think about whether this was just one dumbass or part of a pattern meant to exclude me and everyone in my group from full membership in the community.</p>
<p>Sure, white people may feel “otherness” at Harvard because they are poor, or Muslim, or women, etc., and it won’t surprise me if we see some commentary from those groups. That doesn’t take anything away from the fact that the rest of us may have something to learn from this particular community of students and their experience.</p>
<p>If the students believe that the project will raise awareness, then for them it is worthwhile. I just have a hard time wrapping my brain around the idea that the vast majority of people, and most especially people on the Harvard campus, don’t already know that these comments are offensive. I think Harvard has to be one of the most politically correct environments on this planet. And I must say that some of the comments sound so juvenile, that my guess is that they were said to these students in middle or high school. Not making excuses, but kids of that age notoriously have no “filter” and they may or may not have had any ill intent. </p>
<p>So if these students truly believe that awareness will be raised at Harvard, then they have spent their time and energy in a positive manner. But if they view this as a way to somehow distinguish themselves on campus, then I’m just not sure they will achieve that goal My instincts tell me that at least in their current environment, they are “preaching to the choir.”</p>
<p>I don’t think they would be doing this if they weren’t trying to tell Harvard students “quit being a bigot”. Nobody wants attention this way.
Just because Harvard’s kids are smart, it doesn’t mean they’re exempt from being called out on ignorance. And it definitely does not mean they cannot be racist.</p>
<p>^^^^^
I guess I give the University and its students/faculty more credit than that. </p>
<p>HarvestMoon-if the “vast majority” of people KNEW such comments were offensive, they wouldn’t be MADE so often. Chances are that what was said to each student in the project wasn’t the first, or 5th or even 10th time they’d heard exactly the same thing, and from adults with intelligence. As we’ve seen multiple times on this thread alone, many people feel such comments are NOT offensive, and even portals to open discussion or even bonding. </p>
<p>So I don’t think the Harvard kids ARE preaching to the choir on the “most politically correct” place on the planet. If it WAS, they’d have ceased hearing such comments. Using my D’s hair-touching example-maybe once or twice, she could use it as a teaching moment or a conversation-starting piece if she so desired. But after the 10th time or so, she found it annoying and intrusive and from people who should know better, from “politically correct” people in “politically correct” places. But you’re free to believe that it can’t happen in a place of higher learning for some of the smarter people out there.</p>
<p>
Man, you bringing up the “bonding” made me laugh yet again on how idiotic it is to take these comments as a way of “bonding”. </p>
<p>Man, oh, man. Now, TheGFG, please don’t take my laughing as an automatic writing off of your opinion. I tried to look at a few events in my childhood through your lens. </p>
<p>Perhaps, when a classmate cut me off in a class discussion with “Niquii, just stop. You’re black.” they weren’t being offensive. In reality, they were, if anything, trying to keep me true with myself! I, at the time, wondered what my blackness had to do with the synthesis of a protein…But it is clear that I was speaking just a bit too eloquently than my black counterparts and I needed to be reminded of that. </p>
<p>Perhaps, when a classmate borrowed something from my lab group and said, “Thank you, n**” and looking me intently in the eyes and smirking, he wasn’t being offensive. If anything, he was trying to connect with a fellow outstanding classmate. I should feel honored that he took interest in a part of my heritage.</p>
<p>I should really feel honored that the unjustified jabs against my identity are in fact unwarranted (but to be treasured) interests. That really these people are trying to get to know me by comparing me to a stereotype and finding out everything that I’m not first, remarking how different it makes me second, and maybe lastly, finding out what I really am. I should wake up everyday with pride to know that I am put down just to prove how strong I am to get back up. </p>
<p>I cannot even imagine the psychological damage a person could develop from such thinking. </p>
<p>Gotta remind again that all this talk about racism, the defensiveness in some posts (and finger pointing,) etc, comes from some posters on this thread. Not all posters. </p>
<p>We did cover that all groups may receive offensive comments, at some times. Sure. But that was initially presented as an excuse. As if the fact that, say, Irish Americans had historic issues with prejudice somehow makes it ok to continue with assumptions about Blacks, today. (Or yes, about any group.)</p>
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<p>Actually, even if the vast majority of people avoid making such offensive or annoying comments, a person who would be the object of such comments could still hear them with annoying frequency. E.g. if one out of every 100 people you encounter makes such an offensive or annoying comment to you, you probably end up hearing such offensive or annoying comments often.</p>
<p>I wrote some pretty long-winded responses full of caveats, yet posters are choosing to cherry-pick statements and present them as my viewpoint. For the umpteenth time, I agree that some of the comments are rude, nasty, and offensive and some may or may not be racist depending on context, tone, or attitude. No one expects anyone to try to make friends with someone who is behaving in a racist manner towards you. </p>
<p>The issue is that these projects muddied the waters by including a very wide range of stuff, some of which are just cultural ignorance and some of which aren’t exclusively said by white people to people of color. If someone didn’t know that Pakistanis speak English, doesn’t know what language is spoken in Nigeria, has no idea whether there is or isn’t an American black culture, or wonders how someone achieved a certain elaborate hair style, should that ignorance earn them the label “racist”? Have they completely disqualified themselves from the subset of humanity with which you can be friends? Hopefully not, because study after study, as well as man-on-the-street interviews, indicate that Americans as a whole are woefully ignorant about the world. Americans, as a whole, are badly lagging in academic measures compared to other countries in the industrialized world. Apparently, students in the UK are no smarter! Many of you insist this is a white aggression and denial problem. In our diverse town, the students from the Middle East and Asia, particularly the Muslims, have heard plenty of ignorant comments, and these comments come from black students just as much as from any other group. </p>
<p>Too many Americans don’t read books or real news anymore. They look at the sensationalist stories and fluff celebrity stuff and then watch lots of TV. And the TV they watch is highly unintellectual. When my husband came to the USA, he couldn’t understand why everyone thought his country was all jungle. Now he knows. Every single time his native land is featured in a movie, there are never any buildings. Just grass, rivers, and trees. “The Sopranos” strongly reinforced the Italian mob stereotype, and “Jersey Shore” did such great things for the Garden State. How many Americans do you think are watching the sort of show that would feature an interview with Cornell West, versus how many are watching the sort of program that would show an interview with Charles Ramsey (Ariel Castro’s neighbor)? This is part of the problem. </p>
<p>The question I have is, “At what point will conversation have to cease because everything at some point to someone will be deemed offensive (or racist) to him / her?” </p>
<p>Has anyone noticed that offensive characterizations are: </p>
<p>1) Always historical - the supposed offender finds out after the fact from the offendee. The exact same thing offends some and not others; there are many cases of this expressed in this thread. How in the world am I or anyone else suppose to know beforehand who would be offended or not? </p>
<p>2) Only the offendee gets to determine what is offensive, so it can change, and does change, on a dime. You could use this word 5 years ago, but not now. But wait, he can still use it, but she can’t. What?? My take is a cynical, but, I bet an accurate one. As long as there is political hay and possible payment to be made to the alleged offended person, we are doomed now to always be in an “I am offended” society. It literally now pays to be offended; it’s free money, gifts and attention.</p>
<p>3) The supposed offender (unless it’s a personal friend) is almost always guilty of a known offense; there is rarely ignorance or naiveté assumed on the offenders’ part. I call it the they should have known better mantra.</p>
<h1>3 above cracks me up the most because the diversity-promoting people do not realize how illogical this sounds. OK, there is a push for diversity on colleges to teach certain people about other people. Well, if one thinks you need to teach certain others about other people that must mean the certain others are ignorant or naive or else no need to expose them to diversity and teach them.</h1>
<p>But when certain others get exposed and do something that might be naive, the first thing done is to get mad, feel offended, slam them and try to shame them and, many times, tell them they did something on purpose. And these actions are done when the entire premise of diversity is certain others do not know and need to learn. What a very counterproductive way to react (mad and offended) and then poison the situation more by calling the defined ignorant and naive mean people etc. Well, is it not their ignorance the supposed reason for diversity programs according to those who support these programs?</p>
<p>Well, given these conditions I say anyone in any conversation with someone who is not a twin brother is soon going, if not already, to be on pins and needles wondering if he is saying or doing the right thing in front of person X. But, when person Y joins the group, it is then OK. And when person Z hits the scene, the rules switch again. I think I will pass on this type of fabricated, invisible big brother, forced interaction. And I gather others have reached this point as well. Gees, I wonder why? </p>
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<p>While there are certainly people who seem to go out of their way to be maximally offended and outraged in this manner (often in a personal context, where it is often an inappropriate reaction to unintended ignorant insensitivity that hardens attitudes instead of helping people understand, and often noisily enough that they gain more of the attention), that does not mean that unintended ignorant insensitivity is not annoying or bothersome to the people who tend to hear a lot of it.</p>
<p>The pictures of people holding up signs are more effective because they are not in a personal context, i.e. not accusing someone directly of being racist or whatever just after saying something ignorantly insensitive, but just letting people know that certain types of comments are annoying and bothersome.</p>
<p>@ucbalumus wrote:</p>
<p>“i.e. not accusing someone directly of being racist or whatever just after saying something ignorantly insensitive, but just letting people know that certain types of comments are annoying and bothersome.”</p>
<p>But annoying and bothersome to whom? Not everyone is offended by many of the statements in those pictures. The only person I can for sure say is offended by a particular statement is the specific person in each picture. Then it gets real illogical - one sign, I recall, says something like just because I am black does not mean I speak for all black people. Then I am told to study these pictures and signs because they speak for all black people. Does the person in that pic even believe what is on his sign? If he does not speak for all black people, then why is he giving me a list of pictures and statements that supposedly speaks for all black people? Given this type of double-speak, it is easier not to interact than try to figure out what someone might be offended by or not; too darn risky in my book.</p>