<p>
</p>
<p>Quite a good synopsis of one reasonable way to look at it.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Best synopsis to date!</p>
<p>Ahh but this thread shows there is not agreement on what’s even been done. Everyone jumps.
- If he does not speak for all black people, then why is he giving me a list of pictures and statements that supposedly speaks for all black people? *</p>
<p>Huh? </p>
<p>Straight from the source: “A photo campaign highlighting the faces and voices of black students at Harvard College.” It’s others who make some connection to "community activists, " kids on a bus and everyone else who ever had a stray comment come their way. </p>
<p>Why? What underlying sentiments? </p>
<p>As to the argument that addressing this “not in a personal context” is preferable, I’d like to say that the standard protocol for non-violent relationship problems is to first speak to the offender privately. The first step is not to broadcast the horrible thing he did or said to you to all your friends (this is known as gossip) or, as in this case, to publish the offense to the international community. If you go to the offender and he blows you off, and you think the matter needs resolution, then the next level of confrontation is to bring along some back-up in the form of witnesses and authority figures and confront him again. Yeah, it’s a pain in the neck, but that is the respectful way to treat your fellow humans. In a university context, a habit of racist comments is a serious violation of the codes of student conduct and can be reported to RA’s or other relevant authorities. That would be a effective and targeted way to get your peers to take the matter seriously. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Has this happened to others? I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone be shamed in real life because of naive comments.</p>
<p>^ What are you talking about? Do you mean you’ve never heard a kid ask a dumb question and then seen other kids laugh and mock him, and possibly the teacher too? </p>
<p>Someone had better quickly jump in and repeat that there are certain comments that everyone should know should never, in any situation, be said to anyone. We aren’t talking about those when we talk about the confusion and risk. </p>
<p>I’ve been around the sport of youth track and field for 11 years. By the way, did you know that not only can’t white men jump, they can’t sprint either? As a result, the sprint squads on the team tend to be about 85-90%% black and the rest white. I have often seen mixed groups of black and white sprinters hanging out, slapping each other’s backs, saying things like “My boy James here just killed the school record.” That’s what they do and it’s OK. Sometimes they use the n- word too, and it’s OK. The rule seems to be (except when it isn’t) that only black kids can say the n-word to each other, but if you’re a cool white kid and they like and accept you, you’re allowed to say it too. It means you fit in, despite being white. Can you picture one of the those white sprinters going on to Harvard and, without thinking, blurting out to a teammate “My boy…”? Next thing you know he’s an example of ongoing white racism and his words are part of a campus movement to raise awareness.</p>
<p>Heard a great comedy routine…in short…</p>
<p>A guy tends to engage kids in a grocery store, especially those small enough to be sitting in the cart…one of the common comments is 'how much does an adorable little guy like this cost…and in what isle are stocked"…funny and cute (hey, I’ve done it myself)…unless…it’s said to a black kid…then Oh my much needed PC back tracking, apologizing and turning the appropriate shade of red…</p>
<p>Yup folks, sometimes it really IS that simple…no bad intention at all…but…oh the outrage currency the situation can create is still so valuable.</p>
<p>The joke doesn’t work for adopted kids or in vitro/surrogate kids either. Joking about buying people just isn’t so funny.</p>
<p>^^^ Because in that case they really were ‘bought’. 
</p>
<p>Good grief, better start a fast and furious effort to take all comedy channels and performers off the air because…if you wait long enough EVERYONE will be insulted. Good grief.</p>
<p>^^^^</p>
<p>I do really think this is a big part of the problem. I think it would be amusing to a child to have someone say that while they are sitting in a shopping cart. I can see the humor in it as well. But you actually don’t think it is funny and that is ok too. But don’t label me as racist or anything else because I see it another way. It would never enter my mind that someone was insulting my child if they joked in that manner. </p>
<p>Now obviously some of the comments we have been speaking of in this thread go way beyond the shopping cart joke. But I do think it is important to consider the intent of the person before labeling them. Otherwise we just run the risk of what someone else pointed out upthread - it just becomes too tedious and risky to interact so people begin to self-segregate.</p>
<p>Harvest: The easiest solution is to self segregate. Chances of insulting your ‘own kind’ are much reduced because you understand ‘them’. Or, maybe all initial contact between ‘others’ at places where all potential hurt, insult and discomfort must be avoided (remember - these are the halls of Haavaad and therefore by default supposed to be ‘better’ than the rest of us) will require the supervision and mediation of those properly trained in eproper and acceptable behavior. These highly qualified trained mediators can then assist the uninformed/racist/mean/ignorant hurters - as to how to shape up and behave in the correct manner. </p>
<p>Hmmmm…This actually DOES happen in the form of campus speech codes. Haavaad is given a red rating by the Freedom and Individual Rights in Education (FIRE). </p>
<p><a href=“Harvard University | The Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression”>http://www.thefire.org/schools/harvard-university/</a></p>
<p>Jokes about buying people just aren’t funny. There are horrible histories of slavery, trafficking, prostitution, corrupt adoption brokers, mail-order-brides, etc. People who make those jokes may be insensitive or they may be making unconscious comments about their own privileged position. It’s no surprise it’s a “guy” who makes the jokes. </p>
<p>Drawing attend to other people’s differences is not appropriate. </p>
<p>Yes, there are exceptions. I think of my then 2 year old, pointing and saying “green hair” at someone in the park. The Green Haired person probably wanted the attention and was amused, but may be not. In any case, that lack of social sensitivity is typical of a toddler. </p>
<p>^^ As for the grocery store joke, that is why it is not even worth trying to be friendly in many cases anymore. Have not a clue how someone might react to an innocent joke like yours. I do not have the time or energy to be cataloging who might be offended by a particular harmless statement, so better keep my mouth shut. </p>
<p>And, as for the community activists comments above, it is interesting that a different viewpoint must have “underlying sentiments.” Well, there you go people. The infamous unless you understand things my way, you must have nefarious motives. Is this not exactly what the kids in the pictograms are saying / doing? Great way to get someone to talk to you; assume the worst from the get go because he has a different viewpoint. Talk about living your life in a negative zone - it must suck living that way. You get no envy from me there.</p>
<p>However, I come back to the illogical-ness of the “underlying sentiments” point - if one promotes diversity programs because certain people are assumed ignorant and naive and need to learn, does not the ignorant and naive premise automatically indicate that there is little or no nefarious motives or “underlying sentiments” involved? Unless, of course, the ignorant and naive premise is a political smokescreen for I really think you are guilty.</p>
<p>OK, I am not a community activist, but like pornography, I know it when I see it. Hum, let’s see - a group of students get together and go through the trouble to create an entire pictogram and statements that each finds offensive and gets all pics printed in one article in their campus newspaper for their entire community to see. And I am supposed to think they did it for fun? If you believe that, I do have several bridges you might be interested in purchasing.</p>
<p>Fun, is stuff you do in your basement and with your friends on the freshman quad. Stuff like this is meant to affect your community or else why print it publicly. I am not the brightest person in the world, so I could be misunderstanding the word, but this seems like activism to me. This is just as active and vocal, as a march or sit in. And you know, I bet every student in that article knows that and that is exactly what they meant to do. How do I know? Just look at the mockery and disdain on some of their faces; those are not casual expressions. That was meant to have an activist impact - nothing fun or passive going on here. But, I wear glasses, so I may be misinterpreting that too.</p>
<p>But kudos to the students though. Why? They have us all talking, so I guess their non-community activist approach was more than they ever dreamed. They are clearly bright students even if I have not a clue how to move forward given the long list of things to track - best to track nothing then and not talk to them, else I get called insensitive or something worse. </p>
<p>Because in that case they really were ‘bought’.
Not really funny.<br>
Oh, funny to you, so it should be ok to the listener. Because you didn’t mean it the way it came across. Our focus should be on the thoughts and feelings of the speaker?? Or we’re allowed to say why comments like that bite? without “you” taking it as some permanent, devastating indictment.</p>
<p>That’s the problem with this thread.
“But don’t label me as racist-”<br>
Again, the fear of being labelled racist came up on this thread. It’s in your minds. Maybe that is good, you’re aware of how racism can appear, even in subtle comments or questions.</p>
<p>Yes…please…can someone who supports the ‘it’s racists/hurtful if I say it is’ viewpoint address this issue:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Mamalion:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>How do YOU know what the green haired person WANTED??? What if they DIDN’T want the attention??? Is it okay for a college student, or say my parents (age 90) to make a similar comment? What is the cutoff - kindergarden? Is it insensitive NOT to comment because the green haired person wants and deserves attention? For all you know the person may be color blind (I am) and doesn’t know it is really a shade of green. I wore a pair of shorts for several years assuming they were grey…nope…they were green. </p>
<p>Diversity programs are not meant to put the “diverse” on a shelf, like in a children’s museum, for visitors to poke and prod and then ask the tour guide their naive questions. </p>
<p>You missed who brought up community activists. Also, I am asking what iunderlying sentiments make some posters so afraid of being labelled racist? Why can’t H students note some of the comments aimed at them-- and NOT get this defensive reaction from others? Why not, “wow, I didn’t realize?” Instead of “omg, there they go again, whining, angry (also brought up here) and trying to dismiss US?”</p>
<p>diversity programs because certain people are assumed ignorant and naive and need to learn - No, not why diversity programs exist. Not for your benefit, so you can see these exotics and then go home. Not presuming your ignorance. Just ensuring people of all sorts get together, for all the benefits in our multicultural world.</p>
<p>Dietz, you have difficulty with reading. I made no claim about Green Hair’s desire. I hypothesized that they may have wanted attention (lime green hair gets attention (especially from toddlers), but I acknowledged that he might not have. I was present, and though it was a long time ago, I don’t remember any reaction, positive or negative. He may not even have heard. My main point is that only toddlers are so unaware of other’s feeling that they comment on difference. Part of the long process of learning civility (civilization) is to learn to aware of others and to be sensitive to their comfort. </p>
<p>I understand some people do not understand courtesy, civility, respect, and responsibility. If they haven’t mastered the skills of kindergarten, then it is impossible to teach tolerance, let alone things so sophisticated and complex as pluralism, cosmopolitanism, self-reflection, or agape.</p>
<p>@dietz199 Laughing at how people were actually “bought” isn’t funny to me. Poking at the misfortunes of someones life isn’t funny to me. I find it mean-spirirted. Don’t be so quick to overreact, now. Just because what I find unfunny does not mean someone else can’t find it funny. Depending on the content I may pass judgment on that person. </p>
<p>If someone finds abortion jokes funny, I may view them as crude, insensitive, or misguided.
If someone find slave jokes funny, I may view them as crude, racist, or heartless.
If someone find infertility jokes funny, I may view them as mis-informed, inappropriate, or rude.</p>
<p>You may not hold the traits some may think you hold, but know what you say has an impact on what people think about you.</p>
<p>A joke towards a child being so cute in a shopping cart in my opinion is harmless. I may not realize the joke at first, but I will smile and let me child enjoy the attention they receive. Someone picking fun at people due to their difference is not funny and is not harmless. </p>
<p>On the notion of diversity programs, ignorance, and naivety, I do not believe we should downplay the ignorance that comes from a lack of cultural experience. Diversity programs, or even programs whose main goal is not to create diversity but diversity is on of its by-products, create tolerance, a widened perspective, and acceptance. Why do we have work environments filled with varying backgrounds? Why do we have national and international internships that allow students from various educational setting work together? Why do we have service trips and exchange programs? The promote heightened creativity, a larger perspective, and a sense of community. In a sense, those who have not been exposed to various backgrounds and cultures are naive. They lack cultural relations skills. They lack sensitivity. They lack empathy. </p>
<p>Niquii, not having been exposed to various backgrounds and cultures may indeed render one naive, with limited cultural relations skils, but it does not mean that the person lacks empathy or sensitivity.</p>
<p>On a cultural level, yes, I believe they do.</p>
<p>I did leave that last paragraph hanging, but recognize the context in which I am speaking: cultural situations. Situations where there a varying dynamics, backgrounds, experiences, and viewpoints. </p>