<p>My junior daughter is currently an iB Diploma candidate. AP is not offered at her school.
IB Diploma is the most rigorous curriculum that can be taken at this high school.
My daughter was selected for a summer medical research internship which is highly selective which she will be working 6 days a week all summer.
The issue we are facing is that she has to complete an IB Extended Essay for high school graduation to obtain the IB Diploma. Given her work schedule I believe she may have to sacrifice the essay and diploma program and try to obtain the IB certificate which allows you to choose which IB classes a student wishes to take but does not have the extended essay requirement. How would this be perceived by college admissions. She plans to take 7 IB classes next year if she switches to the certificate program. In her heart she does want to complete the DIploma program but the research opportunity would give her valuable experience and the ability to publish or participate in national science fairs.
She wants to take classes more aligned with her career choices combination of biology, engineering, and business. By doing the certificate she would have more flexibility to choose the courses most beneficial to her career goals.
Do you really think she will have a big disadvantage is she doesn’t obtain the IB Diploma. </p>
<p>Colleges LOVE the IB diploma. My daughter was going to do it but switched back to AP at the last minute ( long story). Data shows that students who graduate with the IB diploma have greater acceptance rates to selective colleges ( that may or may not be important to you). How would your daughter feel about spending day # 7 working on the essay? That is what I would do if possible. I guess it really depends on the type of school she will be applying to. There is nothing wrong with the certificate, but the actual diploma may be better depending on where she is applying.</p>
<p>One more thing- does your daughter enjoy writing? My daughter loves to write and considers it fun, so working on the essay on her only day off would not be a problem. If your daughter does not enjoy writing then this may be an issue, although from what I recall there is already a ton of writing in IB, which is one of the reasons why some kids do it in the first place.</p>
<p>I am a parent of an IB diploma graduate, so I have some basis for what I’m talking about. </p>
<p>Even if your daughter does not do the Extended Essay and settles for IB certificates, I wonder whether she would have the time to exploit her summer research experience to participate in national science fairs. The demands of IB classes – particularly the HL ones – are heavy, even for a student who is not doing an extended essay. Would she have time to transform her summer research experience into a science fair entry while also pursuing such a demanding academic program AND completing college applications?</p>
<p>I’m not arguing for one course of action or the other. I’m just saying that trying to “make up” for not getting the diploma by participating in science fairs may not be realistic.</p>
<p>You can search the forum for other threads on this topic-- you will see a varied response. Personally, in my kids’ high school with IB magnet program, the certificate kids tend to have more top admissions than the diploma kids, but it is a small sample so hard to generalize. The certificate kids tend to be kids who were on track for diploma, but incredible opportunities came their way (national science competitions etc) and time did not allow them to meet diploma requirements. </p>
<p>Again, what I see is that kids who have challenged themselves, learned critical thinking and writing skills with IB curriculum – do well in admissions. The difference between diploma and certificate is not “make-or-break.”</p>
<p>Sounds like your daughter has a great opportunity for research. If it would not translate effectively into the basis for the EE, then perhaps walk away from diploma. But if she has done TOK and her CAS, then it does seem tough to turn back on diploma if all that is left is turning her research into EE.</p>
<p>There is no right answer here, just what makes the most sense for her. Good luck to her.</p>
<p>The IB Extended Essay is a written product, but that doesn’t mean that it involves pleasurable writing. Much of the time that goes into it is devoted to research of one sort or another, followed by a painful process of fitting what you want to say into IB’s excruciatingly specific rubrics (which are often ill-suited to your topic). </p>
<p>This is not the kind of writing that is fun. The Extended Essay may be a worthwhile learning experience, but it is also a difficult one and for many students, a frustrating one.</p>
<p>If I were working six days a week, this is not the sort of thing I would want to do on my one day off.</p>
<p>One more point – IB does not necessarily provide the best possible preparation for college majors in science or engineering. If your daughter chooses not to do the diploma, taking 7 IB courses might not be the best option. Could she take one or more courses at a local college instead? In particular, if IB HL math is not offered at her high school, she might benefit more from taking a year of calculus at a local college (if she’s prepared for it) than from taking IB SL math.</p>
<p>My kid got IB diploma, but I do not remember her doing a lot of work during the summer. I think she did most of it during the school year. D2 did not enjoy IB writing and she is a very good writer.</p>
<p>Marian I understand how much work is involved in the extended essay, and that is why I asked the question. Some kids would be miserable spending their one day off doing this essay, while other kids would not be miserable and would actually enjoy it. It depends on the kid. My friend’s daughter graduated last year with an IB diploma so I am basing my comments on what they have told me. What is " pleasurable writing" for one student may not be for another. I just think that some kids enjoy this writing experience even though it is difficult and intense, and others do not. There is no right or wrong here.</p>
<p>You’re certainly right about that. There is no one choice for this student that is clearly better than the other.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It would be great if all IB programs were set up that way, but some of them rely on the summer as a time when important things need to get done.</p>
<p>Before we talk E. Essay though, is there any way to cut down on “working 6 days a week all summer” schedule? This sounds like a receipt for major burn out. She may make it thru the summer but regardless what she may end up doing - Cert vs. Dip - her senior year will be very demanding. Going full speed thru her junior year, summer, and then thru her senior/college admission process will be VERY difficult. I think you need to watch out and make sure your D holds it together. </p>
<p>I can’t tell you (for sure) how college admission officers view Cert vs Dip students. I can tell you, however, EE is an integral part of IB program and something, if anyway possible, I strongly recommend your D finds a way to do it. My D’s school guideline says EE is aimed at projects that can be done in 40 hours of work/4000 words. I am sure kids usually put in more hours than 40 but if they manage their time well, it’s possible to do it over the summer (4-6 hours of work/week??). Also, check the schedule on when it’s due. She may have some time after her internship is over to make up. If I remember correctly, final EE is not due until well into her senior year meaning she may not have get it “done” over the summer. You may want to check your D’s IB calendar for EE schedule.</p>
<p>Raclut, My D is wrapping up the IB Diploma, while my S (a sophmore) has opted for an AP track. I think either path is acceptable. </p>
<p>I am not sure how it works in your school, but you may want to just play this as if she is going to pursue the Diploma. You can probably back out if it gets overwhelming. </p>
<p>For what it is worth, there is much worry about the extended essay. If you D builds a detailed plan and sticks to it, it is really not a big effort at all. D felt like it was much to do about nothing. Her scores for the essay were high. She does have friends that have participated in year long medical research programs- those actually became their essay. They were actually done early.</p>
<p>In our school all IB kids do the EE, whether they’re diploma, certificate or neither. The EE is not due until fall of senior year in many schools, so you should check that first. I have a junior IB kid and he’s sure not planning on spending his summer writing. He’ll work on his paper some, but I don’t think most kids sacrifice that much time for it. As for diploma vs certificate, my daughter couldn’t do diploma because of scheduling issues with classes at her school. She still got plenty of credit at her college.</p>
<p>Our school assigns an advisor for the extended essay. I’m not sure if all schools do but it would be a good idea to ask the school about your options. I personally would want my child to earn the diploma vs. the certificate just because of how much work is required in any IB subject. The diploma is a great reward.
My D started her extended essay in the summer but found that most of her classmates were just starting theirs in the fall of their Sr. yr. I think doing the extended essay in the fall is possible if she’s light on her ECs. Good luck.</p>
<p>I’ll chime in on this as well. The EE process at my daughters school was extensive. Students had to choose, and be accepted by an adviser for their EE the spring of their Junior year. The EE was due the fall of their Senior year. The summer is spent doing research for the EE but not necessarily writing it. An extremely rough draft was due a few weeks after school began. The next few weeks were spent fleshing out the EE, meeting with the adviser, and doing revisions, until the final draft was due.
As far as the difference between the diploma and the certificate, the certificate is not really discussed at my daughters school. They discuss the diploma as an all or nothing type deal, in if you don’t satisfy the required components, you won’t get the diploma.
As an aside, the top ranked kids at my daughter’s school all do IB, not because it’s necessarily better, but the school deems it as the most difficult curriculum offered. For kids applying to selective schools, this becomes vital. All the kids at her school that were accepted to Ivies this year were IB diploma candidates,however, it’s not clear if it had as much to do with IB as it had to do with the kids themselves.</p>
<p>Our EE timeline is the same. Having a Technical Advisor and thesis/outline was due this spring. We have three IB tracks-- IB, Spanish Immersion IB, and French Immersion IB, and diploma/certificate tracks within each. It gets confusing!</p>
<p>I graduated from High School with a Full IB diploma in 1990. My high school touted itself on being college prep. I remember the IB exams and the extended essay. The subject for mine was French. What the counselors didn’t tell us is that the majority of schools in the USA, even the prestigious ones, didn’t know what IB was. I found this out the hard way. I don’t feel it improved my chances on getting admitted into college at all. It certainly didn’t allow me to start college as a sophomore, which is a sell point of the IB curriculim. I say that because there were lots of other students who wern’t going ‘Full IB’ (what we called it), who were still getting into IV league schools. I went to Northwestern. So did 4 other students from my school, but I think 20 of us were accepted. I was the only ‘full IB.’ The other 4 that went only took 1-3 IB classes. The rest that got accepted didn’t take any IB classes, but were still honor students. In college, none of the other students I got to know knew what IB was. They knew all about AP. Years later, my daughter is now a junior in a college prep high school, and it’s still all about AP classes. I’m just not sure IB ever really caught on. Maybe things have changed over the years, but I’m not conifident. </p>
<p>I would make sure that the colleges your daughter applies to recognize the IB program and honor it. If they don’t, go for the certificiate.</p>
<p>I think in general you’re right in that AP is still more recognized than IB. But it’s been twenty years since you did IB, and more schools, esp private ones, recognize IB. My D got 21 credits with her IB stuff at a private college. One of our state schools gives a lot of credit, the other not as much. I liked IB more for the experience it gave my kids, and the teachers that tend to teach in International High School, not as much for any college credit. I like the global perspective, and my D still counts TOK as one of her favorite classes ever.</p>
<p>The SUNY schools accept and recognize the IB diploma. I spoke to the Dean of Admissions at Cornell, and spoke to admissions counselors at Northeastern, Lehigh and U of Maryland- College Park. All of these schools told me that they view AP and IP as equal. The Dean at Cornell told me that they do not care whether you do IB or AP, as long as " most rigorous" is checked. The way credits are accepted will most likely differ among the schools, but I know a girl who graduated last year with an IB diploma and was accepted as a sophomore to Binghamton. I made these phone calls a few months ago when my daughter was going to complete the IB diploma program, but has since changed to AP.</p>
<p>I had the same conversations with Cornell and Binghamton as twogirls and got the same answer. But that research sounds very special.</p>
<p>May I ask a question of the OP? In you particular school, will the person preparing the school’s recommendation form select the “most rigorous” box for students who aren’t doing the full IB diploma? This was a kerfluffle in my D’s school a couple of years ago because it was decided that only full IB would count as most rigorous. I have always heard that that designation is important, so I did wonder about that.</p>