Ideas to help floundering 22yo nephew get on track

Parent Cafe
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<p>I am managing a modest trust (around $35,000 is left) for my 22yo nephew that my parents left specifically to pay for his college. My mom was particularly concerned that it not be used to buy a car or boat or anything of the sort. It was solely for college and “related expenses”, a fact that my brother (Nephew’s father) and, perhaps, Nephew have resented at times. My parents were highly educated (a doctorate and three masters between them). Dad was a college professor, and mom a school teacher. They and valued education, but were unsuccessful at helping my brother get even an associates degree. </p>

<p>My brother has floundered his entire life, unable/unwilling to hold down a job and has basically been a non-contributing member of his family until the past five years when he became stay-at-home grandpa/caretaker/transportation guru to Nephew’s four nieces and nephews (Nephew’s mother and two sisters are all nurses, and both sisters are married and living in their own homes with great husbands).</p>

<p>Nephew has never seen his father with a long-term job, and Nephew’s mom and dad have basically been divorced but living in the same home for 20 years (otherwise, my brother would be homeless). </p>

<p>Nephew is a nice “kid”, but seems to have little motivation to accomplish much past partying and playing video games. I think he has no male role models other than his dad, and seems relatively unimpressed by the successes of the women in the family. He is in small town Alabama, and graduated from high school, but only made a 17 on his ACT. He’s not without intelligence. He is simply without knowledge about how to prep for tests and get into college, and lacks motivation to do well at the local community college (where I have now paid for five semesters of classes, most of which he either dropped or failed). He seems sincere when he says that he REALLY wants to get 40 credit hours so he can transfer to UA. However, something always happens. He only manages to get credit for 1-3 of the five classes I pay for, and he reverts back to video games and partying.</p>

<p>Of course, none of his friends left at home are working or going to school with regularity. And, his friends who went to UA after HS have now either graduated or are finishing up this coming year. </p>

<p>He needs to get away from home. Jobs are scarce, and he isn’t motivated to work when he has a free place to stay and parents willing to let him sit around and follow his father’s path. I tried to talk him into moving here to live with me (West) for six months so that I could help him get (and keep) a job, pass classes at the community college here so he can go to UA (which he says is his dream, as it was my Mom’s alma mater), and work on his confidence and motivation so that he will feel better about himself. He really is a sweet kid, but he couldn’t imagine leaving home, and I’m sure that the thought of having to take on responsibility wasn’t appealing in comparison to his current lifestyle.</p>

<p>He asked me to give him last Spring Semester to prove that I wasn’t wasting the money on him there, and if he didn’t do better, he would consider something different. Well, Spring has come and gone. No word on his classes, which tells me things didn’t go well. I am ready to do an intervention, but I want to have some solid and varied ideas as to what his options might be. My goal is to help him, not harangue him, but I feel like without someone stepping in and physically removing him from his current situation, he will still be there 10 years from now. I am pretty sure that his dad is also still telling him not to “waste” the money on school and just wait it out so that, eventually, he can put a down payment on a beach house (not kidding. My brother hasn’t spoken to me for years because I won’t let him and Nephew use the money for a beach house down payment. The fact that neither of them has a job and would not be able to pay the remaining mortgage, or even qualify for a mortgage, falls on deaf ears.)</p>

<p>Do any of you have any ideas what sorts of options I might be able to offer Nephew to help coax him toward a more productive, positive situation? I wonder if there are study-abroad-type programs, either here or abroad (though he has never left the US and doesn’t have a passport) where he could work on college credit AND have a change of scenery/mindset? I am also mindful of the fact that he is 22 and on the upper end of the “college aged cohort” for such things. I know that parents here have dealt with kids like this. Any insight from those who have “been there” would be helpful.</p>

<p>Once again, this isn’t a “troubled” kid. He’s SO sweet. Such a good heart. Never in any trouble. Just lacking good role models, information on how the “world” works outside of his very small circle, and lacking parents willing to make the hard choices. I have even considered talking to him about paying for an overseas volunteer trip for him. I am generally not a fan of those sorts of things, but at this point, I’m open to any plan that would get him out of his funk and expose him to something bigger and more fulfilling than where he is now…and that wouldn’t take much. Thanks much for your help!</p>

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<p>Assuming it complies with the terms of the trust, I would help him find a vocational job training program in an area of interest, and use the trust funds to pay for the training. There are many reputable trade schools. Not everyone is cut out for college.</p>

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<p>Your brother was not a college guy which may have been a disappointment to your parents. Your parents left the money with strings attached, hoping the nephew will become college material. Frankly, from what you’re describing , he might be better off looking to trade school or something like that. Following his own path. It’s positive that he’s a “nice:” kid . He’s still only 22 and many kids, particularly boys , seem to take a while to mature. What else beyond use of the money for college would be considered an acceptable use of the funds? You mention an overseas volunteer trip. Is that something he has expressed interest in?</p>

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<p>Very true, nottelling. I paid for some vocational CS training 2-3 years ago for him (something having to do with Cisco?) He stayed in it and got some sort of certification, but hasn’t wanted to anything with it (job-wise) since. I have friends in his area who I know would hire him to do computer-related work, but he had no interest in my even calling them. I think you are right about vocational training. I think he just has to get out of town and change his mindset before further training would be a good investment. But, yes, I’m glad for the reminder about more tech training. I had put it out of mind. Thanks!</p>

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<p>sevmom, I have some discretion with regards to defining acceptable uses. Mom and Dad never really pushed the four-year degree thing on any of us, actually. (Dad was a Child Psychologist, so fairly enlightened re: seeing us each as individuals). Two of us got four-year degrees, but no advanced degrees. One got an associates and tech training, and little brother–well, they paid for everything imaginable for him, to no avail. There was nothing that wasn’t on the table for us, as long as we were working toward improving ourselves and getting paying, fulfilling jobs. Nephew’s dad simply squandered all of the amazing opportunities he was offered.</p>

<p>The way the trust is written, the money is specifically for EDUCATIONAL purposes (should have clarified that before), and I am given discretion to define what expenses might be education-related. It is Nephew who repeatedly claims to want to do the CC/UA route. That came from him, not his parents. And, I haven’t made any suggestions until last December when I gently explained to Nephew that paying for a full course load, then only getting one or two credits might not be the best use of his trust.</p>

<p>And, no, Nephew has NO ideas past the CC/UA route. As strange as this will seem to CCers, I don’t think he knows such a thing even exists. This guy’s world and life experience is exceedingly narrow. That’s one reason why I had wondered if something like that might be a good investment. With the exception of trips he took with my parents as a very young child to family reunions in other states, his entire life has been spent in Alabama, with an annual trip to the FL panhandle, a few hours from home. I know this will sound crazy, but I have seriously even thought about flying him out here, giving him the keys to our old, but reliable SUV that we never drive, and having him set off on his own for a week or two. Anything to coax him out of his comfort zone and expose him to something more than where he is now would be a good investment, IMO.</p>

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<p>^^^^Same as above post. Does the trust allow for the payment of vocational training? Is there something that interests him at the community college near you?</p>

<p>As I see it you have two mandates, 1) to spend the money on college for your nephew and 2) help your nephew.</p>

<p>I don’t know if both of them intersect. He has been at the community college for YEARS and is unsuccessful. Don’t throw good money after bad. I would have stoppped after 2-3 semesters, if even that. And instead given him time to figure out what he really wants.</p>

<p>If he really wants to return let HIM pay for the return out of his earned money or from his parents. He and they have NO skin in the game. NONE. And after a successful semester or 2 then you can pay or reimburse him for the previous semesters.</p>

<p>The best gift you can give him is time not just paying out randomly for school he does not appreciate at all which is glaringly obvious. I speak as a single mom of 5 kiddos who knew from an early age there was no money for college or anything after. It was up to them and us as a family to figure out a way. And they did, they all did. Whether it was an academic scholie, sports scholarship, ROTC scholie, or service academy appointments they pursued any and all routes.</p>

<p>They did. When a child wants for nothing, then they want NOTHING. Some of mine also attended community college, some while still in high school since the district picked up the tuition and books while still a hs student, others used it to supplement double majors and load up on extra units to quicken graduation to minimize expenses.</p>

<p>Same students also had ivy acceptances and attendance, 6 different service academy appts. between 2 brothers, over 10+ outside scholies to be used in conjunction with the money awarded by the schools themselves. We were/are a low income family living in the same (very rural) south your nephew lives in, and yet they managed to do much with no trust fund. They were on free lunch and were grateful for that.</p>

<p>Your nephew has been given a tremendous gift from your parents and he should act accordingly by being respectful of their wishes and being honored they would think so much of him to leave him such a gift. It’s your obligation to also honor that gift.</p>

<p>The money was for college. 10 years from now that money will still be for college. He can still come live with you, and find employment or an internship/apprenticeship. My kiddos all had to EARN their college educations, whether it was based on hard academic achievement (ivy acceptances with need is fully met), West Point/USNA with a military obligation as it is with ROTC scholie or on and off-campus jobs while still attending school or a Div 1 scholie requiring 8 hours of practice a day. They had skin in the game.</p>

<p>Middle son is currently a med student earning a MD/MBA on full fellowship. He knew there would be no money forthcoming for med or b-school. It was all him. These are kiddos from a single parent home with little to no resources BUT had talent and hard work to get them through. And with that talent “to whom much is given, much is expected.”</p>

<p>Not all of mine had a perfect straight path but I was firm in their need to do something. If that meant no partying, no cell phones, no cars, no video games that is what happened. My house, my rules.</p>

<p>My youngest has a specific learning disability (math) so a four year college right out of high school was not practical. Not yet at least, but I certainly see it in the future, after the passage of more time. However, he went to culinary school and is a wonderful chef fully employed and self-supporting. He needed/needs the gift of time. With the passage of time he now has the want and desire and skills to succeed at a community college and eventually a 4 year. with the realistic goal of being a kindergarten teacher.</p>

<p>Have your nephew visit with you for a while. Away from his current environment and with you as a role model and let him look around and see what other opportunities exist. Time. He has to want this more than you. Talk is cheap its his actions that will be rewarded with the natural consequences of working hard and proving himself.</p>

<p>My kiddos would have lost their scholies after 2 semesters or been booted from their schools if they were only passing 1-3 classes. Why would you want any less for your nephew? You are doing him no favors at all. </p>

<p>Time. And he needs to want it. Not a beach house.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>Any thoughts on the military for this aimless 22 year old? Sounds like you have explored multiple other options between CC and trade schools with no success.</p>

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<p>Look into Americorps NCCC program. 10 month commitment, provides room/board and a small stipend. It will get him out of his comfort zone and let him build his self-esteem while helping others.</p>

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<p>From personal experience I did not understand the value or need for education until I was older and on my own supporting my own family. I put myself through school and finally received my bachelors well into my 40’s. I wish I now had someone paying for advanced education. I dont think you can make him want school until he realizes it on his own. What he needs to do is learn how much things actually cost and what it takes to support yourself on your own without relying on mom and dad. That may be the wake up he needs. Good luck. He is lucky he has you looking out for him.</p>

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<p>katwkittens, First, awesome job! Oddly, I am sort of in your boat–widowed w/ two kids–one on almost full aid at an Ivy, the other excelling with nat’l awards in high school. My parents didn’t leave money to my kids, but I totally understood why they left it for Nephew. I have, in fact, only paid for three semesters of CC. His mom paid for the two semesters (before my Mom’s death). Then, he “took a semester off”. Then, I paid for the Cisco training that he said would help him get a job. Then, he took another semester off “to work”–but never worked. Then, he came up with the plan to do CC, then UA, so I have paid for those three semesters, during which he has only managed to earn 21 of the 45 credit hours the trust paid for. He has earned over 40 credit hours, but evidently only 25-30 or so transfer to UA. </p>

<p>I think we are on the same page here? As close as he is to earning the magical “40 hours”, I don’t want to pay for any more CC OR UA if he isn’t going to commit to the work. So, that’s why I’m here. Just looking for advice and suggestions on how best to help Nephew mature and see beyond his current situation.</p>

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<p>@mom111‌ , he has absolutely no interest in the military, and his mom gasped when I even broached the subject of helping him get an academy appointment his junior year of high school. I asked him at the beach last summer if the military was still off the table, and he said, “Oh, yes ma’am! Not an option.” </p>

<p>@Blueash‌ , that sounds exactly like the kind of option I was looking for. I’ll check it out. This guy just has no idea the sorts of opportunities that are out there. Thanks!</p>

<p>@Tmknies‌ , exactly. You perfectly described what he needs to figure out. I feel like, at this point, that is the greatest education I can help him attain. Education comes in many forms. Fortunately, my parents understood that. It’s just up to me to guide Nephew in the right direction without scaring him. I don’t want to guilt or shame him into doing anything. I want to guide him to make good choices. With a little help from CC, I may be able to do that. I’ve just never dealt with a situation like this with my own kids, and I’m 2000 miles away from Nephew, so the challenges are … challenging.</p>

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<p>Sorry he doesn’t like the military option, but encouraged he likes Americorps. Being away from home and on his own, trying to manage on a modest income on his own with new people and accomplishing a specific, selfless task could be the ticket. (I said “on his own” twice…I am assuming that would be a good thing for him.)</p>

<p>People do still go work on kibbutzes in Israel, even non Jews. I hear there are opportunities to work on organic farms in the US. Those would be other kinds of completely different experiences for Nephew. </p>

<p>Not knowing him, I would be optimistic that he just needs a little more time to grow up and figure out what he wants to do. Kids in other countries do compulsive military service, then travel, then go to school. Our straight to college and know what you want model isn’t the only one. </p>

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<p>Thanks, Lizardly! I have checked out the Americorps option, and it is at the top of my list. I don’t know if he will like it or not, yet, as I am currently compiling a list of options I want him to consider (hence, my request for suggestions) and plan to present them to him tonight or tomorrow. I had not even thought about that whole organic farm movement (read about it last year–interesting), but that will definitely go on the list. A quick Google search should yield the name of the organization that oversees the farm stays. Thanks for that! Pretty sure my SIL would put the kabosh on the kibbutz as far as Israel is concerned, given the current unrest but, yes, point well taken. I’m excited to have a good list of options to give him to ponder. This is great!</p>

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<p>Check the Idealist website for volunteer opportunities and jobs all over the world. Craigslist (under nnprofit sector jobs) lists opportunities in your area. United Way sometimes has volunteer matching programs. Look at Job Corps; it aims for urban or rural young people and gives them life skills and job training. And have you ruled out any medical cause for his behavior; when did he have his last complete physical exxam?</p>

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<p>Lucky nephew! You are in his corner and it matters. This may be all about finding his passion. What may excite him? I would start with that- is it music, animals, dance, human services, hair styling, etc.? Take out the high stakes future stuff and take his pulse. Where is he now? What are his wishes, dreams, needs? Some 22 year olds don’t know what questions to ask themselves. Having a caring adult to role model how to sort this out can make all the difference. Great that there are resources, so I’d advocate starting where he is at and moving forward accordingly, with support for skills acquisition. There are tons of options, and the best result comes from what drives him. He may need to volunteer at little expense initially to see where financial sources are best directed. </p>

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<p>Does he like cars? Cooking? Construction? Art? Working with his hands? Computers? Working with people? I agree that it’s important for HIM to figure out what excites HIM. Many folks his age love cars or tinkering with mechanical things. Some like building things. If he likes video games, does he want to help make them? Seems like he may benefit from some career counseling. By the way, how are his and his dad’s bills paid if neither of them are working? Often having spending money is motivating for young folks to figure out how to earn $$$.</p>

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<p>Honestly, I don’t think there is anything you can do until he decides to get moving on his own. Hold tight to that money until he finds his own educational opportunity–he is MUCH more likely to work at it if it was internally driven. As far as intervention, I would try to join forces with his mom. She must be tired of seeing her son play video games all day (I know I am tired of seeing mine do this!!!) and also worried about him but overwhelmed. Video gaming is an addiction. It really is. I don’t know what to do about it either. FWIW, I had a nephew who dropped out of high school, and then “went” to college with his friends, sleeping on their floor while they went to class. He basically had the entire college experience without doing any of the work! Or getting any of the results! But now, after meeting the right girl, he has turned his life around, got his GED and works for Apple. There was absolutely nothing his mom could have said to turn him around (believe me she tried and she cried), but the same stuff coming from the girl changed his life. It was pretty painful for him when his friends moved on–graduated and got real jobs–even the girl-- and when this happens to your nephew, hopefully it will be a wake up call to get going on SOMETHING. AnYTHING!!! I feel your frustration!!! Keep us posted.</p>

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<p>@Wordworker‌ , those are fantastic ideas! I had never heard of Idealist. Took a quick cruise around the site and offers so many different types of ideas and opportunities! Thank you for that. Also adding UW and Craigslist to my list. </p>

<p>As for medical, he is definitely physically healthy. I have suspected that my brother was both Dyslexic (at a time when it didn’t really have a name or diagnosis–he was just always in the “slow reading group” growing up and always struggled in school) and ADHD. However, he never wanted to be tested or treated for anything. Mom and Dad tried in high school and adulthood. He wanted nothing to do with it. Nephew seems like he could be ADD-Inattentive, but he has never been tested or treated, either. He certainly shows all of the signs of it, and it runs in the boys in our family. I missed most of Nephew’s middle school and high school years being 2000 miles away and caring for both of my parents here (Dad with health issues and Mom with early onset Alzheimer’s). Had my parents been there, this guy’s life would have been very different, but they were here and unable to help him. So, if there is a medical issue, it’s of the LD ilk. That’s one of the things I would encourage him to address if he were here.</p>

<p>@travelnut‌ , Exactly! What you laid out is my plan. I have to at least try. I can’t in good conscience just let him flounder at home with enabling parents, a play and party cohort with no ambition, direction or guidance, and few opportunities to turn things around. Up to now, he has not wanted to come stay with me. But, if I could just be his homebase, let him get his feet beneath him, help him find SOMETHING he likes besides video games and partying, and let him be surrounded by motivated, successful peers (our home borders the state flagship and is in an affluent, highly educated area), I feel like he would respond to the culture. He can’t understand the concept of an unpaid internship. I doubt he’s ever even heard of anyone who did volunteer work past an afternoon in the park with the Key Club. So, his worldview is very, very limited.</p>

<p>@HImom‌ , Yes! That’s what he needs to figure out. He honestly has no hobbies other than video games and partying. Oh, and watching football. That seriously sums it up as far as what I hear from him and his mom. And, he and his dad are 100% dependent on his mom. She works typical (looooong) nursing shifts and makes a very nice income, with which she supports two able-bodied, capable men. As I said before, both of Nephews sisters are married with children and excellent nursing jobs at the same hospital as their moms. It’s HORRIBLE! But, she does it. I’m sure she complains to them, but she doesn’t cut them off.</p>

<p>And I tried the “spending money” thing. Several times. I thought he needed to learn to handle money, and I knew he had never had any. Boy, was THAT a miserable failure. Each time, we talked about what happened to the money, how he spent it (partying, buying guns, treating all of his fellow underachievers to expensive nights out on the town), he swore he would do better next time–then, POOF! Money was gone again. I gave him $1200 to fix his car one time because he needed transportation to school. POOF! Money was gone in three days. Car didn’t get fixed. So, his mom paid to fix his car. Then, a few weeks later, he wrecked his car, so his mom bought him a new one. It’s clear that it is a waste of money to try to help him while he is there. I just can’t make any headway with him there.</p>

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<p>What happens if he never goes to college. Is there a date when the trust liquidates and gives him the money? Currently, 35,000 would throw off, at a 2.5-3% annual dividend yield, about 800-900 dollars annually pre-tax, which would be sustainable forever. That’s about $75/month. </p>

<p>You haven’t given any hint of it, but it seems as though this situation might have some potential to “devolve” into “what happened to the money that my great uncle left for me?” </p>

<p>So I guess I’d advise you to look out for yourself a little bit too (from a liability standpoint…not from a “help yourself to the money” standpoint. :slight_smile: )</p>

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<p>Yes, @dadx‌ , that is always in the back of my mind. I don’t want to be in charge of this trust forever. It is also kind of taxing on me to try to deal with Nephew so far away–trying to understand his needs, provide for his “educational” needs in the way my parents intended separate from his “wants” (which usually have absolutely nothing to do with his education or betterment), etc. The “What happens if he never goes to college” thing is difficult for me, too, hence my attempt to think outside of that realm. The trust doesn’t liquidate at a certain time, though I know that is what my brother is waiting for. He continually tells Nephew to just “wait her out” and not go to school, and I’ll eventually turn the money over to him in one lump sum. The way the trust is written, the money is to be used to assist Nephew in any educational pursuits, as I see beneficial. He gets the remainders upon completing his “higher education”, past his high school diploma. Yeah. No real definition there. </p>

<p>As the money was coming in, I offered to invest half of it, but they were adamant that they wanted it left liquid and “safe”. They agreed to let me invest $8000, which has done exceptionally well (I bought, among other things, Apple around $250 in presplit dollars (so @ $25-30 in post-split dollars), which is why I felt I could use a little bit of discretion in giving him some spending money to “manage” which, of course, was a miserably failed experiment.</p>

<p>The reality is that they know exactly where the money is going and it has always been their (now his since he is an adult) decisions. I don’t know how to protect myself, other than to do my best to handle the $$ per the trust. I REALLY don’t want to be holding this money 10 years from now. When my parents set it up, I absolutely refused to be the executor of it because of this exact scenario. My husband, an attorney, was made executor, and I was the “in case of death” backup. Guess what? My husband died. </p>

<p>And there is a PACT 527 involved, too. I forgot to mention that. They want to save the remaining six semesters of the PACT money to use at UA, which is why I have been paying for CC out of the trust. It would be a great plan if he ever planned to actually get to UA, but I’m losing hope for that at this point. He will always have the remaining PACT money to help with college/technical school unless the program goes belly-up. Because of mismanagement, the program doesn’t pay for all of what it was supposed to pay for, but it pays for most. I am just trying to use the trust money to help him get on track, knowing that if he decides to buckle down and actually get a degree at some point, he will still have the PACT money there to support him.</p>