If parents pay for their children's college.....

Parents Forum
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<p>Sueinphilly, It may all work out for you and your son. He sounds pretty typical for me. I gave mine the extra year of kindergarten, but he needed about 5, and you just can’t hold them back that long, so he is taking the time at the end of the process, I guess. I hope things work out, as like NSM, I know some very successful, happy, peaceful folks who had the same issues and lifestyles as my sons. People do grow up and turn their lives around.<br>
Pitt has taken late apps, and as a PA resident, it is a good deal for you. With his stat, he is likely to get enough to go there, or Temple and commute. When it comes down to May, if he is not accepted in a school, or there is not enough money on the plate, than he has to look at the alternatives he is putting his nose up to. That is really what it comes down to.<br>
Just as a tip, my friends who were in your situation regarding the other parent, had independent corroboration of the nonexistance of a father in their kids’ lives. They, like you, sent a letter, but that is often not considered the gospel. The colleges like some one like a minister, social worker, school counselor to substantiate that there is no father in his life. The reason for this is that the absentee father is so common, but often stands around like Santa Claus dispensing money and taking part in the kids’ lives whenever HE feels like doing so, but refusing to pay for things like college. In cases like that, colleges that use PROFILE or other methodology than FAFSA refuse to pay for that behaviour. And yes, the kids pays the consequence, but that is the way it is. My close friend has an ex husband that comes in and out of the kids lives, and it put a quash in the daughter getting any money from the private schools. At least one college put out a query directly to her highschool counselor about whether there were any sightings or signs of that parent and when the answer was affirmative, that ended any aid from there, even though the guy had not paid a dime in years, and was not employed. That he existed and did not fill out the forms–and he would not fill out the forms, was enough.</p>

<p>If you can get counseling, it would be a good investment. It is so stressful when you have an antagonistic relationship with one you love. He sounds very much like a typical kid his age, and the relationship is not unusual either. It is just painful. I really think he is going to be fine, but the stress caused is not good for you. He is young and even if things do not work out as he wanted, there is time and much available there for him, but if he ends up at home, it is going to be very stressful. I do want to tell you that my kids HATE being at home and with me, as they tell me in the most hateful ways, but one is here,and the other is here every break from college when both could be finding other places to be, and I wish they would. I would have to forcibly evict them to get them out of here as they have not lifted a finger or brain cell to find other places to be than here despite what they say and how they say it.</p>

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<p>suppose he enlists in the military - which would be perfect for him except for that damn war thing, Do you know how many times I’ve told him that his drill instructor will remind him regulary that he’s not his mother.</p>

<p>My son has been in Civil Air Patrol for over 4 years, he’s squadron leader (people call on the phone and ast for Lt. __). He knows better. He is going to Central High (if you know Philly you know that is a great school). It is ripping me apart to see this. And yes, I am willing to fill out more than my part of the scholarship forms, but I can’t submit them w/o my son’s cooperation (transcript must come from school and essays to write).</p>

<p>The kid wants control and this is all his choice to be this way. ARGH!!!</p>

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<p>“you. He is young and even if things do not work out as he wanted, there is time and much available there for him, but if he ends up at home, it is going to be very stressful”</p>

<p>Speaking from experience – if he’s too immature for college and goes to college via his mom’s organizational skills, his parents still will be very stressed.</p>

<p>Remember, if he doesn’t go to college because of his own mistakes, and starts off living at home, his parents can show him the door. At his age, if he’s liviing in his hometown, if he is kicked out of his home, he has limited options, and that could be a big wake up call for him.</p>

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<p>Sue-
I don’t know much about Pennsylvania state schools vs. private, but I’m pretty sure Albright is private. Son and I visited–nice place, scores are vastly below your sons’. Maybe he’d get lots of $$$?</p>

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<p>Great feedback and encouragement, thanks!!! </p>

<p>There is no father’s name listed on the birth certificate, is that proof enough??? Never a court order, never married. I’m not sure of what other proof I could give? I know his first name was Alan, but I’m not even sure how he spelled it (allen, allan, alan?)</p>

<p>I would do counseling, but I know that unless both parties admit there is a problem that they are part of, then it is a waste of time. I know exactly what he would say to a counselor. </p>

<p>My son spent 5 days over the xmas holiday at a friend’s house because he couldn’t stand to be here with me.</p>

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<p>Military would be a great option for him. About the “war thing,” Navy and Air Force are not very dangerous (unless he is a pilot or special forces). With his aptitude, he would likely score high on the skills test and get his choice of jobs. He would go in a boy and come out a man, ready for college, I guarantee it.</p>

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<p>" And yes, I am willing to fill out more than my part of the scholarship forms, but I can’t submit them w/o my son’s cooperation (transcript must come from school and essays to write)."</p>

<p>You don’t have to make his lack of cooperation with doing things to help himself your problem.</p>

<p>Have you ever considered that perhaps he’s being so uncooperative because in his heart, he’s not ready to leave home or at least he’s not ready to go to college or leave his hometown?</p>

<p>His actions are telling a different story than he’s stating his wishes are. If you let the chips fall where he’s putting them, he may surprise you by doing something like getting a fulltime job and moving out into an apartment. Sometimes teens have to do something like this before being ready to take on college. Not everyone who’s old enough for college and smart enough for college is emotionally ready to go. THe only way that some can express this is by not doing what they need to do to get to college.</p>

<p>I also agree with the suggestion to get counseling. Even if your S won’t go, you should go.</p>

<p>My older S was in counseling, but didn’t cooperate with her. My husband and I did have sessions with the counselor, who would help us with our parenting, but if I had it to do over again, I would have been in individual counseling myself to help me cope with parenting him.</p>

<p>When my younger S was a senior, I was in counseling. I got him into counseling because I was concerned that depression was causing him to delay putting in his apps. The counselor (who also was my therapist)-- who was excellent and had worked with college students and bright high school students – found no signs of depression in him. She found some perfectionism, and she found that he was happy at not having applied to college. </p>

<p>While because of privacy reasons, she couldn’t tell me everything that went on with S’s therapy, she could tell me that his not applying wasn’ tmy fault, and he didn’t have a psychological problem that caused his problems applying. That was a huge relief to me! S enjoyed the therapy, said it was worthwhile, and terminated it by his choice right before his final exams.</p>

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<p>Northstarmom–
I have one of these too. Our compromise in the family was that I would badger him on the paperwork to get into a nearby college where he could live, but from here on, it’s completely his problem.</p>

<p>He is reminded by us on a regular basis that college is but one possible path he might take, and if he chooses not to take it, he will be working full time and out of the house, in the military, or whatever.</p>

<p>Too many of his peers keep coming home and going to CC part time and working part time. That is not an option here, and he knows it.</p>

<p>To my relief, he came home this semester with a 1.9, and not on academic probation. For this kid, it’s a step in the right direction. Obviously, he has to bump it up a bit. What I like is that now the college is the bad guy, not me. If they dismiss him, oh, well…He has to take an English class over because of a D–it’s great to see the college not only tell him that he did a lousy job, but that he has to do it again!! In HS, they complain, but move you on.</p>

<p>Anyway, that’s been our strategy–get him into college, out of the house, and sink or swim–no more relying on mom’s nagging.</p>

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<p>sueinphilly: my S sounds a lot like yours. Also just me and him. Fortunately in his case there is some neurological basis for his behavior (he has Aspergers); I just have to keep reminding myself of this and not lower myself to his level. During college discussions, I tried to stay completely calm and kept the discussion as rational and realistic and unemotional as possible. Since he really was not too motivated to complete a lot of applications or essays to begin with, it was easier than I expected to get him to understand my views and to limit his college selections to better matches for him. Of course with respect to most everything else, I know nothing…So, we still have a looonnnggg way to go!!! But I am trying to get better at acknowledging the baby step accomplishments and improvements I do see.</p>

<p>Oh, and I’m guessing your S will get work study, make it clear to him that that will be his spending money, maybe even books etc depending on your financial situation. My S knew this and still did not get a job in the fall, pretty much went through all his savings in the fall (which should have lasted the entire year) and now I understand that he has finally applied and accepted for 2 different work study jobs! But still, at least it’s progress.</p>

<p>btw, I remember coming across a list my S made when he was around 10 or of things he wanted to do when he grew up and one of the items was “Buy Mom a new house in Maui.” I think I will try to hold him to that!</p>

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<p>jaybee,
Glad to hear that things are working out for you and your S.
I’m also LOL because only parents like us know what it’s like to feel joy at seeing a 1.9 gpa!
Best wishes that this is only the start of good things in your S’s life! Congratulations on your tough love parenting.</p>

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<p>Parental help and intervention are common and not necessarily harmful when it comes down to college/scholarship/program apps. I have seen too many kids succeed wonderfully with parental support at levels that I myself would not give. You cross the ethical line when you fill out the apps where they are supposed to be completed by the applicant. Nothing wrong with researching possibilities and laying out the forms and info. If the kid doesn’t want to take it further, then that’s it.<br>
I think NSM is pretty clear about where the lines can be drawn, whereas I am more fuzzy about those borders. I can tell you that showing the kid the door, especially if he has problems, is not easy for a parent. IT can cause enormous painful stress and put the parent into a depressive spin. I know this because there are many times I want to do this. I am in counseling over a number of situations regarding my kids, one being having one at home that says he does not want to be here, but has not done what it takes to leave. Given his particulars, my counselor does not feel is time to take aggressive action on our part, even if I were ready to do so, and I don’t think I am. Also there are kids who get “put” into college largely through parental effors, and many that I know do just fine, and I can tell you that the stress of having them around is far greater, as it is continual. Yes, you worry when they are gone, but you do not get a day to day barrage of what they are doing. And IF it works out, even with bumps, it is a lot less stressful as you don’t have to know the daily issues. If it doesn’t work out, it’s painful all around, and yes, you lose your financial investment if you paid to send them anywhere. So, there are many paths to take with a kid who just isn’t with the program, and risks to whatever you do. I just know too many kids who couldn’t handle the research and apps process, that did fine once they were gone, to advise just to let the kid sink if he can’t get through that process on his own. SOmetimes it will take a long time before he gets there, and he just might not get that maturity staying at home, working a minimal job and living a minimal life. We know too many young men stagnant that way, and kicking them out is not always the cure either. Some will literally go down the drain and end up in other institutions than college. Inevitable? Maybe. Maybe not. I just personally prefer to place them where I would prefer them to be, if it can be done with crossing ethical lines, and then seeing if they will bloom where planted. In the case of some kids, getting away from mom and home really gives them the push they need. Or maybe they would have grown up at that time anyways. Again, there are no right answers here. But I do recommend a therapist for mom, as that can help deal with many issues.</p>

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<p>sue, S’s father’s name was also not listed on his birth certificate and he has never had any contact or paid support, I noted this in the CSS profile I submitted to the school S ended up at to explain the lack of a noncustodial form, and that seemed to do the trick. S ended up with $17,000 scholarship/grant-which is basically as high as the school gave out. S also knows he is on a scholarship and if he doesn’t maintain a 3.0 gpa he will not be back the next year -whether they give him probation or not!</p>

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<p>Sue, the counselor is not for your son, but for you. You cannot control his reaction to a counselor or “fix” him. The reason I have a counselor for me is to help me with my reactions and stress, and to give me his perspectives on the situation. I think your son is quite normal in the way he is acting, but given the situation, he has put himself at risk in going away to a college you and he can afford. It may all work out, but the process is the problem creating stress for you which is not good for you, as you are not getting any younger. Also most of us are not perfect in our interactions with our kids, even if we are right, and a counselor can address the issues we have that are causing problems. I know when I talk to my kids when they have had issues, often created by others, that though they cannot control others, they have that option for themselves, and have found that their actions and interactions have often increased the probability of problems without directly causing them. The same situation exists with parents, especially those who do not have good relationships with their kids, and who are stressed out by their kids. I have learned alot about my own problems in dealing with my kids through counseling. There is a lot here that I can do since it is about ME where I have the control, though I am finding that it is not that easy to change. This is not going to directly help my kids, but it will help ME get through the inevitable problems that they will cause, and the grief it will bring me. Sort of the Al-Anon approach. Sometimes you even find that you are a part of the problem, and if you sincerely want to solve it, you have a great place to start. I should have done this years ago, but never found a good match in a counselor which is the big stumbling step. But if you can find other professionals–hair stylist, doctor, lawyer, etc, as you need/want them, you can find the right therapist if you put the time into looking for one. Better to do it before a crisis, as you don’t need swimlessons when you are drowning. Raising kids is so difficult, and when you have a mismatch of personalities, it can make things so painful. THere is help available in that area. I know the psychiatrist I see counsels parents whose kids are in very dire straits and there is little or nothing the parents can do. The counseling helps the parent deal with personally with the situation and his/her own life, and if there is something that the parent can do, advise for that is also given. It has helped me, and given me some things that I need to do to smooth my edges.</p>

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<p>Whoa, scansmom, it sounds like your son got a merit scholarship, not financial aid. Aid does not have a minimum gpa to be renewed; you just have to be able to come back. At least most of the time. Not to say that he did not get that award in place of an aid package that he would have gotten had he not been the candidate for that scholarship. </p>

<p>I bring this up because there is a big difference in what you need to provide in terms of the missing parent, if you get a merit award vs financial aid. You don’t have to prove diddly for the latter, as a Rockefellow can get a merit award. For money set aside to meet demonstrated NEED, the demonstrations can get severe. I have seen this many times. My husband, in fact, was in that situation, though many years ago. His alma mater is probably the strictest in proof of an absentee father. Now, in my opinion, you have all the pieces for not having to search for the father. The fact that he has never been in your son’s life is ususally enough, though some schools do want independent corroboration from an official source like school or church in that area, and the empy space for the name on the birth certificate will be more than sufficent. Given that info, I am sure the OP will be fine in this area.<br>
I bring this up only because it was a big sticking point for a number of single moms I know, who for varying reasons got no money despite the fact that there was a deadbeat dad who had not, and would not come up with a completed fin aid app, much less the money. It was a horrible shock to both the kid and mom that these schools that boast about meeting full need would exclulde this situation.</p>

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<p>My son doesn’t want to go into the military. But he would do well there.</p>

<p>He’s going to ask the friend he spent xmas with if he can stay there permanently. I told him I’d pay $100 a week to anyone that would take him in. Considering he gets a $30 allowance, that isn’t much. </p>

<p>This kid really hates me and can’t stand to speak to me. I’m not exaggerating. I wish him well, but I will be happy when he is not here. </p>

<p>a 17000 scholarship is nice, but if the school is 45+ then it still leaves a huge gap, even if I kicked in 10K a year, he’d be looking at nearly 20K more to get. </p>

<p>I don’t need counseling. Did that with my parents 30 years ago. Counselor told me “your parents are your problem, get away from them asap”. I really didn’t want things to end up like this. The issues I had with my folks were very different than the ones I have now. I know not to take it personally, it’s not my fault, blah blah. Counseling doesn’t change the reality of the situation which is that he hates me and isn’t doing what I feel is necessary to try to get outside scholarships.</p>

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<p>“Sue, the counselor is not for your son, but for you. You cannot control his reaction to a counselor or “fix” him.”</p>

<p>Yes, yes, a thousand times, yes!</p>

<p>When my younger S was allegedly going through the college app process his senior year (which means I was doing all of the work, while he stared at the computer screen “writing,” but accomplishing nothing), it was my therapist who pointed out repeatedly until I heard it that I was the one who appeared to be worried, but S seemed to be very happy not applying to college.</p>

<p>Her repeatedly saying that (and also talking to S to find out if depression was causing his procrastination and lack of action about college apps, which it was not) was what helped me let go of the process. Once I let go of trying to force S to do what he claimed to want to do, but wasn’t doing, that’s when S moved on and found himself an Americorps job.</p>

<p>I can not emphasize more how helpful it can be to have an unbiased professional giving you feedback and support during stressful times with our kids. It is well worth whatever the price.</p>

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<p>cpt–
you said it better than I could.
It is wonderful not watching the daily train wreck.
When he comes home for weekend/breaks, I don’t have to nag about school</p>

<p>I’ve said to many people–It was my responsibility to make sure he graduated from high school</p>

<p>It is NOT my responsibility to see him graduate from college. It is such a peaceful feeling to not be watching him procrastinate, not set his alarm, etc. etc. And most importantly, it is not me who is assigning consequences for failure, it is the college!</p>

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<p>northstarmom–</p>

<p>Thanks! While I have numerous acquaintances whose kids are doing quite well, I know one who flunked out in one semester due to WOW addiction, and another last year that never went to class and came home before exams.</p>

<p>I’ll take my victories wherever I can! And I know it can always be worse.</p>

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<p>Sueinphilly:</p>

<p>I know your son will likely scoff at my suggestion (if he is as elitist with school suggestions as it seems not even wanting to consider Temple, Drexel, PSU, or Pitt), but some of the smartest people I know went to college in the PA state school system. My best friend for example had stats similar to your son (albeit she is a history person, not math and graduated from a top high school in Lancaster, not Philly) went to Millersville with a full tuition scholarship and graduated at the top of her class (3.97 GPA). I know others who had similar success at West Chester.</p>

<p>West Chester would nearly certainly give your son a full tuition ride where he could excel and graduate at or near the top of his class. West Chester is known for its excellence in math and science, so your son would be in a great position to get into a top graduate program if he performs to his ability. This way he’d come out of undergrad debt-free (except for room and board, even my friend didn’t get room and board for free) and be set up for a great graduate program where he would be competitive for a teaching or research assistantship (which includes free tuition, health insurance, and a stipend).</p>

<p>Your son has a lot of growing up to do, as most high school seniors need, but hopefully he’ll come to his senses and not waste his talent.</p>

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<p>OMG, I just mentioned West Chester to him and he agreed to apply there. It seems like it is only about 8K per semester including everything. Now we’re talking doable! Could my EFC be lower if the cost of attendance was so low?</p>

<p>thanks for the suggestion. I never went to college. </p>

<p>I don’t want anyone to think I don’t love my son. In fact it’s probably the opposite. I care so much it’s painful sometimes!</p>