<p>“I am sorry zoosermom had a bad experience and a rough life, but that doesn’t mean the same is true for others.”</p>
<p>That’s absolutely true, as I stated. But I also stated in the first post that I’ve observed this phenomenon for decades and believe that my situation and others like it are much more the norm. Ultimately (as I said repeatedly), everyone has to do their own thing, even my friend, but it is my personal opinion based on experience and observation that this is far from the optimal parenting situation for a child and should be avoided. It really is ok for me to have an opinion that others don’t necessarily share, and as far as my friend, well, we have been friends for decades and have had difficult discussions over the years. If someone who truly is your friend doesn’t care enough to take the time to be honest with you about a major life decision that you are making alone, are they really friends?</p>
I understand where you are coming from, zoosermom- I was just responding to this quote. You clearly have strong opinions about the topic of older parents from personal experience, and it sucks that your sibs didn’t help take care of you. Did they help with your aging parents or was that squarely on your shoulders alone? I fully agree, that’s not fair, but not all families have this dynamic. </p>
<p>As for sibs, my h’s middle sib (a brother) is only 13 mos older, but he is more like the “younger” child. He’s never really been completely responsible financially, and tends to expect and let his family members (aging father, sister and us) keep him in the lifestyle to which he would like to be accustomed . Don’t EVEN get me started!! This has been the source of, shall we politely say…disagreement… in the family? I put a stop to the handouts (from us) a long time ago, but there are still a laundry list of situations I could describe where we were taken advantage of by him and his family of 5. Grrr. My h. has been “taking care” of his bro (footing bills, etc) since they lived together in college. H. earned $$ and paid the bills, bro took handouts. So, unfortunately, we can’t always count on the older sibs to look after the younger ones,when they cant even loook after themselves. </p>
<p><em>edit</em> I want to clarify that I am all for helping out a sib in need. If they had had some family crisis/emergency or what have you and needed financial assistance, I’d have been the first there with my wallet for them. To the contrary, this was no “emergency” .This has been a lifelong pattern of expecting others to pay his way… and I am not a big fan of enabling this behavior.</p>
<p>"I understand where you are coming from, zoosermom- I was just responding to this quote. You clearly have strong opinions about the topic of older parents from personal experience, and it sucks that your sibs didn’t help take care of you. Did they help with your aging parents or was that squarely on your shoulders alone? I fully agree, that’s not fair, but not all families have this dynamic. "</p>
<p>My next oldest sibling moved my mother in with him after he was divorced and is just wonderful with her. During my youth, they were all going to college, getting married and so forth. All the things that one would expect. They weren’t unkind, but living lives that were different from mine. You’re right that all families have dynamics, but I think if you start with a less-than optimal situation, you really do have to be aware of the potential pitfalls and try to avoid them. I’m not sure if that makes sense, but if you’re, say, 44 and having a baby, I think you should be informed about it and careful. Just as a teenaged mother would face specific issues that can be dealt with if acknowledged.</p>
<p>As far as the brother in law, is there one in every family or what? My husband’s older brother sucked his mother dry financially and left her destitute when she was dying of cancer last year. Ugly. And she wasn’t even old when she had him!</p>
Apparently so. My uncle was like this too. Sucked my grandmother dry (even stole her BURIAL money!), also maintained a lifelong pattern of mooching from his siblings (mostly my mom) and even from his adult sons! His wife’s family had more money that g-d, but he didn’t dare ask them for $$. I could tell you unbelievable stories, but it just raises my blood pressure to even think about it. Then, to discover that I married into a similar (but hopefully not quite as bad) situation… aaaggghhhhh :eek:</p>
<p>Hey zooser, are you sure we aren’t related??? My uncle would have been pelnty rich if he hadn’t let my grandmothers co-op penthouse apt go back to the bank many yrs ago-- He made my dad pay the co op fees for years and years so he (my dad) wouldnt get any profit if the co op ever sold. He lost it anyway, when my fa wouldnt pick up the mortgage payments (Uncle refused to put my dads name on the title, just want him to pay the bills)</p>
<p>“My uncle was like this too. Sucked my grandmother dry (even stole her BURIAL money!), also maintained a lifelong pattern of mooching from his siblings mostly my mom) and even from his adult sons!”</p>
<p>High-fiving JYM! My BIL did the exact same thing. We and my husband’s sister had to bury my MIL and have the “repast luncheon.” I don’t know if these are common in other parts of the country in the same way because they’re not common in my family. Husband’s family is Italian American and their particular family has these huge luncheons for everyone the deceased has ever met and everyone they’ve ever met in a wedding hall. The thing is lavish and it cost us almost $10,000 just for the lunch. Never mind the three days of wake, the robe for the priest, the limousines, etc. Oyy!!</p>
<p>Geez zooser-- we can sure trade family trainwreck stories! Did you see my addendum in my last post?? Here it is again, in case our posts crossed:</p>
<p>Hey zooser, are you sure we aren’t related??? My uncle would have been plenty rich if he hadn’t let my grandmothers co-op penthouse apt go back to the bank many yrs ago-- He made my dad pay the co op fees for years and years so he (my dad) wouldnt get any profit if the co op ever sold. He lost it anyway, when my fa wouldnt pick up the mortgage payments (Uncle refused to put my dads name on the title, just want him to pay the bills).</p>
<p>“Hey zooser, are you sure we aren’t related??? My uncle would have been plenty rich if he hadn’t let my grandmothers co-op penthouse apt go back to the bank many yrs ago-- He made my dad pay the co op fees for years and years so he (my dad) wouldnt get any profit if the co op ever sold. He lost it anyway, when my fa wouldnt pick up the mortgage payments (Uncle refused to put my dads name on the title, just want him to pay the bills).”</p>
<p>Wow. We could be related. I’m in NYC, but relatives are in Ohio. Are you from Ohio, by any chance? So where did your uncle live after they lost the co op?</p>
<p>Zooser-- It was my grandmother’s apt-- on W. 86th and Riverside. When he lost it to the bank, my grandmother lived with my parents for as long as they could manage (she’s stayed with my parents frequently anyway, since no one else would help…). My grmo was 97 when she died. My uncle had moved to Fla by then, taking the deed to the family cemetary plot in Queens with him. He tried to SELL the deed back to my parents when it was time to bury my grmo. Fortunately somehow my dad got the deed back without $ changing hands, and we had it when my mom passed away. Did I mention that my uncle wanted me to arrange what day they would disconnect my mom’s (his sister’s) respirator so my mom’s funeral didn’t conflict with his granddaughters bat mitzvah?? AAGGHH!! I found myself calling the funeral home to try to make a “reservation” for her funeral. talk about “dead silence” at the other end of the phone, at the funeral home!</p>
<p>No, my mom’s family isn’t from Ohio-- tho we SURE sound related!! (and we couldn’t make this stuff up!)</p>
<p>Sorry that Zooser and I have kinda hijacked this thread. Oops. Maybe we should start a “trainwreck siblings and in-laws” thread. I am particularly sensitive to my uncle’s shenanigans right now, as tonight is my mom’s yartzeit (that means the anniversary of her death). </p>
<p>Ok, back to the “number of kids you should have” thread…</p>
<p>My only one has been so much fun, so endlessly interesting and rewarding that I wished I had 12. Since that isn’t going to happen, I’m hoping there will eventually be grandchildren to play with! That’s probably the primary reason I work hard to stay physically fit and healthy - I want to live as long as possible so I can play with them and enjoy them as long as possible.</p>
<p>I have two. Wish I had started out early enough - and had the financial comfort - to have a third. </p>
<p>But interestignly, I have talked to a woman who wished she had stopped at two. She felt that by the time her third and last child rolled around, she wasn’t nearly as hands-on or as involved as with the two. She simply didn’t have the energy, physical or mental, for the needs of another child - felt her son grew up in a state of benign neglect which left her feeling guilty & selfish.</p>
<p>I have noticed some similarities among kids of parents who were older, I won’t share because it is a pure generalization on my part, from the parents I have seen, the “style” of kids, the interactions…</p>
<p>It was especially noticable when the kids were little…I can’t quite explain it, but, okay I will just say it, a kind of nerdiness, too much emphasis on “work” and not enough on play- you know french at 3 years old, seemed that everything had a purpose, like museum visits were all lessons…I know i know I shouldn’t lump all older parents together, these were just my observations from my Ds preschool experiences with almost all the older parents that I dealt with…I am sure it wasn’t all older parents…</p>
<p>what was true of these parents is they all had their first child in their 40s…while parents who had their 3rd child in their 40s were not as neurotic</p>
<p>just my personal experience</p>
<p>My D goes to these scholarship meetings once a year…I can spot parents that had their kids when they were older, not by how they look, but by how they act and how their kids act - sure bad to stereotype…sorry, but just my little world and what I saw</p>
<p>Don’t slam me because remember these are MY experiences, but I did find it interesting the commonalities</p>
<p>It’s fascinating, but so many women have a number in mind when it comes to children. I really didn’t. I had a hankering for a girl but that was about it. The two sonograms I had showed I wasn’t going to get a girl–with absolute clarity, haha.</p>
<p>I have a good friend who has three boys under four years old–and she is planning for her fourth. She’s nearly 40. The family goes camping for three weeks every summer. I love those boys and my husband adores them but …camping?? For three weeks??? That’s fortitude!</p>
<p>I have another friend who had to go to bed for all four pregnancies. She has four in six years.</p>
<p>My mother probably visualized 3 in 21 years–which was her family structure. Instead she got 6 in 8 years, four of them boys. </p>
<p>I had a friend who visualized three children. She had two in three years, before she was 30 but when she got pregnant with the thrid, a strange rash appeared on her chest. She was so determined to have that third baby, she didn’t tell her husband or her doctor until it was too late to terminate the pregnancy. She delivered the baby at eight months so that she could have intensive cancer treatments but it didin’t help. She died when he was three. She was 34.</p>
<p>I would say most of us grew up under “benign neglect”–those were the days when kids would disappear for hours to find their own fun. Kids’ lives were less structured & parents didn’t hover as much; as long as no one was bleeding, they figured we were ok. Except for swimming lessons (maybe swim team) and Little League (strictly for boys) and ballet (for girls), we were on our own.</p>
<p>I’m actually in favor of benign neglect – forces kids to use their imaginations and to entertain themselves – though the child in question was one that, in retrospect, could have used some extra parenting. At least that’s what his parents believe - a little hard to tell if they’re right, or overprotective or guilt-ridden or all of the above…</p>