<p>When my son was 2, there was another little girl at the day care center who was 2-going-on-20… I never met a 2 year old who was quite so sophisticated. One day my son came home an announced that he was married… apparently he “married” her without inviting me. </p>
<p>My daughter had a crush on a young man at her day care when she was 4 (he was the same age) … he apparently was not eager to get married, so she and her girl friends planned a surprise wedding! Sure enough, he showed up and was stunned to learn that he was getting married that day! (Now I wonder if perhaps my son’s earlier wedding came about the same way?)</p>
<p>&&&&&&&</p>
<p>Coming back to the theme: while I think that the article is worded in a provocative manner, I do think that it is possible for family members to lead very separate lives and all come together on evenings and weekends in a loving home where everyone feels valued. My kids understood that day care was full of fun activities that didn’t happen at home. I spent a lot of time with my kids doing things that I felt were fun and interesting, but I think the kids also understood and accepted that we had divergent interests. I actually rather enjoyed Sesame Street and The Elephant Show… but my son went through a phase of watching Care Bears… which basically is why he had his own tv and VCR at age 2 – he could watch his videos on his t.v. </p>
<p>But I never really felt bored by my kids – we had some interests that overlapped and some that didn’t. I think that one reason that highly educated parents often produce academically talented kids is that we don’t always cater to the kids – they had to sometimes rise to the ocsasion to follow or participate in our adult conversations. I mean, we would be talking law around the dinner table. Both of my kids impressed everyone with their extensive vocabularies when they were young. There is something to be said for the concept of the kids adjusting to the adults’ interests and preferences-- you end up with an 8 year old who likes opera.</p>
<p>I really liked watching Sesame Street with my kids–I remember making quite a fuss about Maria’s wedding, enough so that the kids were bored with me!</p>
<p>Mostly I never made any secret of the kids’ interests being different from mine–I think it’s weird when parents make a lot of fuss about what should be the kids’ world. That doesn’t mean I didn’t respect their interests, just as I expected them to respect mine. </p>
<p>We had a “quiet time” every day, usually an hour after school, when I would read and they could read, do art projects, etc., as long as it was QUIET.</p>
<p>I am the one who occasionally travel. My H deliberately chose jobs where he was not required to travel. We are also lucky that our Ss really do not require us to drive them around as they are able to walk or to take public transportation to their activities. Even so, H liked to drive S to his sunday enrichment program just to see what S was learning, and I often tagged along as well.</p>
<p>I don’t know that my Ss “value” working moms more than SAHMs; it’s just that both their grandmothers worked and the mothers of their friends do as well. That’s what they’re used to. As well, they are not judgmental sorts of kids who think there is only one right way to do things.</p>
<p>I suppose that if we lived in the suburbs, there would be more SAHMs. I know some suburbs around here still assume that most mothers are available for child care on a regular basis. For example, a few years ago, some suburban parents were agitating for the schoolday not to end at noon for kindergarteners. For women whose children had been in full-time day-care, the transition to half-day kindergarten was rather tough. My district, however, had full day for kindergarteners as well as afterschool programs, so we did not have to readjust our schedules dramatically.</p>
<p>If your H travels a great deal, I can see how hard it is for you. I hope one day your children appreciate all you are doing for them.</p>
<p>marite and cheers: Thanks for the kind words. However, I think perhaps you missed my greater point. With 70% of moms working, with the culture (when was the last time you saw a SAHM on tv for instance- seems to me ever since Mrs. Huxtable they’ve all been lawyers or psychologists or architects or going to school to become one) all but assuming that any mom worth a hill of beans works, what exactly is the purpose of devoting more time to your kids? I mean, why bother?</p>
<p>Okay, I’ve admitted my kids don’t necessarily appreciate the fact that I’ve deliberately devoted great chunks of time to just “hanging around the house” (as they see it) with them in case they need me at some particular time emotionally, so how about if some working moms admit that their kids have intimated that maybe mom SHOULD be around a bit more?</p>
<p>I don’t watch TV so I have no idea how SAHMs are portrayed. I understand that a lot of movies involve unmarried women (Sex and the City?)</p>
<p>I can’t speak for other women, but, as I’ve posted, I have spent quite a bit of time with my kids (definitely more than 19 minutes a day) as they were growing up. My kids have never intimated that they wished I spent more time with them. Of course, it could be because they have no imagination and could not think what they would do with more mom time.</p>
<p>We both have worked all our children’s lives so most days it seemed like we were juggling to take care of family and work responsibilities. Like you, we noticed that our family time increased rather than decreased as they got older. Specifically, our sons wanted more “face time” with us as teens than when they were younger. Instead of spending several hours a day taking care of their physical needs, now we spend more and more time in conversation.</p>
<p>Well on “The Cosby Show” (1984-1992) Clair Huxtable was an ob/gyn. (<a href=“http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086687/[/url]”>www.imdb.com/title/tt0086687/</a>) I also remember Elyse Keaton (“Family Ties” - 1982-89) was an architect. (Both of these were great shows.) These women had fabulous careers and fabulous families. I did watch those shows, but I haven’t watched sitcoms since “Murphy Brown.” However, I have a feeling there hasn’t been a true SAHM on a tv show since back in the Beaver days. It’s been quite a while since kids have gotten the message, in the media at least, that moms are “supposed” to stay at home and take care of their families.</p>
<p>Why bother? Don’t you think that is the ultimate individual question? Can I not have respect for your decision to stay home while at the same time respecting my own decision to continue working? Why does it have to be either or?</p>
<p>Did my kids want us to stay home more when they were little? Yes. Would they have preferred to eat ice cream before dinner? Yes. Oh well on both counts. We were the intelligent adults, we made the decisions.</p>
<p>Do I see some enormous difference between my sons and the boys whose mothers ‘stayed home’? No, I don’t. Do I think my boys are perfect or will mature into perfect parents and adults? No on the first count–and I’m hoping for better than average on the second count.</p>
<p>Never say never is my motto. The pudding will be proved if, and when I see how they raise my grandchildren, what sort of 45 year olds they become. That’s a done pudding in my opinion.</p>
<p>However, I don’t need SAHMs to give me a pat on the back for my choices–but I sense that hereshoping would like working moms to give SAHMs a pat on the back. Why? Do you think SAHMs have contributed more to society by staying at home? Sorry. I don’t see a natural ‘superiority of sacrifice’ in either choice. I simply see an individual choice.</p>
<p>I have heard some SAHMs complain about the lack of working mom volunteer in primary schools. I made sure I did my bit and then some–but maybe as a group we’re guilty of volunteer neglect. There are independent shcool stats which indicate that the typical independent school mum in 2006 is a working pysician with little time for volunteering–nevermind teacher conferences. The inside independent school skinny is that working mums prefer ‘happy’ over ‘challenging’ curriculums becuase they don’t have time to support their children in a rigorous environment. CC posters are probably not in the ‘happy’ group, LOL–but those stats suggest we may be a minority.</p>
<p>Well, it’s embarrassing to acknowledge a familiarity with TV, but you know, I tend to notice what’s on while others are watching (or in my husband’s case, flipping channels with no apparent destination in mind.) Just off the top of my head, I seem to remember that The Home Improvement mom did not work outside the home. Also the mom in Everyone Loves Raymond. If you’re looking for influence on kids, it’s going to be how the families around them have divided childcare and work — their own families and their peers and whether their peers’ mothers work, not necessarily what’s on television. Do kids even watch these sitcoms? I have no idea what cartoons, Adult Swim or the kids’ channels TV moms are doing. (However, the mom on one of the most popular animated shows of all time for the last 18 years does not work outside the home. And this show is so popular that I know kids who quote the lines from various episodes by heart…like that weird character in the movie Diner. First one to guess gets a cyber rah-rah.)</p>
<p>I missed your comment #124 until I went back and reread the last few pages. It seemed like I was talking about something entirely different than everyone else (I was). </p>
<p>We both work. Over the years, our oldest told us on several occasions that he wished we could be home more. We handled this in different ways: More help from grandparents, taking our kids with us to work after school, and ultimately we staggered our work schedules so one parent is home in the morning and one in the afternoon. If we had left everything the way it was - go to school and then be a latchkey kid - our son would probably have turned out the same. We did this because we wanted to.</p>
<p>Our son never complained and he isn’t overly needy, but he did attend a school where most of his friends have stay-at-home moms. After-school activities are common and, if you want to play with your friends or if you have a study group or other after-school event, you need a ride from mom or dad between 3-6 PM or a parent needs to be home so friends can come over. It worked for us and I figure most people do what works for them.</p>
<p>I have been both, & one thing I do admit is that I think that parents who are not available to drive on field trips, to be room mom, to package the earthquake kits, to run the auction, and fight in the legisilature etc, should stand up and thank those parents who do take the time to spend improving teh schools and the community for all kids.</p>
<p>My husband always took time off work, to go on longer field trips and I always rearranged my schedule to drive on shorter ones- without those parents, lots of things just wouldn’t get done. Schools don’t even have enough money for glue sticks and construction paper to last past Sept., they don’t have money to have the adult: child ratio that is optimum for learning and they desperately need volunteers to make things work</p>
<p>My husband worked swing shift for many years, not by choice but that was what his hours were. It pretty much sucked as he would be leaving for work before I picked them up from school ( after my school) and he wouldnt get home until long after their bedtime- weekends were the only time we saw him and that was only if he wasn’t working
He actually liked that schedule, because the factory is half empty then , but it made it difficult for me-</p>
<p>I did have to rely on child care before and after their school, but we really couldn’t afford it.
Before they were in school, they were in co-ops and that worked well, as it was cheaper, but we didn’t have any other outside help, alhtough both sides of grandparents are in area- they don’t babysit and nobody else would do it for free!</p>
<p>The women I know who work have husbands who are either REALLY close by (at their jobs with no commute), retired, work at home or are 9-5’ers. They are good at picking up the slack, carting the kids around to activities after school, etc. as the women are on the road or have long hours. An ideal situation if you can swing it. Any sort of flex hours or telecommuting seems to make it all work. I think the worst scenario is the two parent heavy duty career, long hours, long commute situation where the parents just physically aren’t home to have any involvement. I’ve seen that side, too.</p>
<p>Yes. Cyber cheer to you. Sorry it took me so long to acknowledge, but I had to log off before you answered. I should have left out “animated” to make the question harder. </p>
<p>The Simpsons is probably the most watched show by kids ever and the family structure is pretty traditional. Marge shops, cooks, lugs baby Maggie around, mothers the kids like a hen, but she is clearly the brains of the family “outfit.” Homer goes to work (kind of) as the undisputed breadwinner. I’m not holding The Simpsons up as the epitome of a family role model — we could do a whole thread about whether Bart is the source of slacker boy syndrome and Lisa the excellent student role model we want for all kids — but I brought it up because I don’t believe that the “media” is sending out the message that moms are “supposed” to work. Some kids don’t even watch TV that much anymore because they are spending hours chatting on line or playing video games. I think that today, kids get the message from a variety of sources that some moms work outside the home and some don’t. What opinions or decisions they are forming about their own preferences I assume would be shaped more by what experience themselves in their own families and what they see happening in the families of their peers.</p>
I think that’s true based on our experience. Also, thanks for mentioning The Simpson’s. I didn’t realize how long it’s been on the air until you brought it up. I think it’s amazing to have a TV show with that longevity given how quickly most shows come and go. I guess it’s the equivalent of Bonanza for this generation (come to think of it, wasn’t Ben a stay-at-home Dad?).</p>
<p>jazzymom: The Simpsons is wickedly funny (IMHO,) but they are surely portrayed as the ultimte loser family. Nothing to emulate there. So I’d hardly think that Marge’s role as a SAHM is subliminaly influencing kids to admire a traditional mom over a career mom.</p>
<p>I love TV, but don’t watch much prime time. I think most family shows are pure dreck, so I don’t tune in to any of them. Psych is my new favorite. Love Monk & House. All three are loaded with incredibly dysfunctional characters. Then there is my Law & Order syndication addiction. Dysfunction and depravity abound.</p>
<p>SS, I think Jazzymom was clear that she doesn’t think The Simpsons is influencing kids to want stay-at-home moms. On a related topic, we like the Law & Order series, too.</p>
<p>We do know work at home dads & mom- some work periodically and have flexible schedules- financial planners, tax consulants,artists,consultants
We have also know moms who work out of the home and dad is in the home
“traditional” couples, with dad working and mom at home & both working out of the home.
Probably the most we knew though was dad working out of the home, fairly regular hours, with mom not working or with a flexible schedule.
While my Ds have had friends who had nannies who were picking up and taking to school, most have a parent available. ( and even the families who had an au pair or nanny, had flexible schedules & the parents were fairly involved in teh school)</p>
<p>However, this does seem to be a middle/upper class phenomenon
When you are working 2 low paying jobs and neither is full time, you really don’t have time to breathe, let alone spend time at your kids school, or help them with their homework. Many of the jobs paying around min wage, dont pay full time because then they would have to pay benefits, soworkers have to work maybe two jobs each about 26 hours. pretty time consuming all that running around and trying to coordinate child care.</p>
<p>We have met parents, who were surprised that my H didn’t get home any night till midnight, it just hadnt occured to them that not everyone gets home for dinner. While some with very ambitious careers do have very long hours & days, most of the white collar workers had at least one spouse that had a very flexible schedule.
( as we had to do out of necessity- I would have loved to have worked more, we certainly needed the money= but with H being unavailable from 2pm-12am and then sleeping from 3am to 11 am, I was pretty much a single parent for years, I tried to stay home mornings, because if I wasn’t home from 11 to 2pm, I didn’t see him at all)</p>
<p>Ben was a chick magnet. He never had trouble replacing his dead wife with a new one. Always expanding the Ponderosa, seeking new ventures like a ferry service. I wasted a good deal of my youth watching that show.</p>
<p>Re: volunteers at school. I remember our PTO president praising the way working & SAHMs made a complete package. Daytime physical presence + evening contributions = well-served kids. Of course, dads who were firemen or cops & could manage chaperone duty were in great demand. I honestly can’t say that I saw more lazy, uninvolved working moms than SAHs. It’s just such an individual thing. Some people have a service-orientation, some don’t. I once had a working mom reply to a volunteer request in this lovely manner: “I don’t have time for that *****!” She was the exception, thank God. Our PTO had a working mom CPA acting as treasurer and a podiatrist as president. Really no difference in commitment between workers or SAHs, in my experience.</p>