<p>^^Nope. Making a choice based on incomplete or incorrect information is not the same thing as making a random choice. Same with later regretting the choice - that doesn’t retroactively confer randomness on the choice either.</p>
<p>Random means that all possible choices have an equal chance of being selected - the classic example being lottery numbers. And we know that just ain’t true when it comes to picking a spouse. We may choose a mate based on foolish or mistaken reasons, but very few of us ever select a particular mate for no reason at all.</p>
<p>What they are saying is no matter what we think we know about the person we marry the reality may be totally different and in a sense the reality is random. Not statistically random but unpredictable and at least unexpected.</p>
<p>^^Sure, pretty much anyone who has ever been married will attest that a marriage will often turn out to have many unexpected qualitites, some of them even disasterous, because there are many uncontrollable variables. But unexpected outcomes by no means makes the initiation of the marriage a random process.</p>
<p>“In addition, once they got over there, his behavior and personality changed radically”</p>
<p>Years ago I had a German friend who dated a Palestinian guy (secular, from a Muslim background). The reason she eventually broke up with him was that every time they were around his family he, in her words, turned into a different person.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>You forgot 5 or 6 other religions there</p></li>
<li><p>Yeah, because that’s what all muslims believe. Thank you so much for letting me know, now excuse me while I can go and beat some women up. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>There have been some reasonable, informative posts in this thread (yes certain travel policies can be cause for distress, I would be concerned too), however, at the same time I can’t believe the level of discrimination and prejudice that is infused in the words of many peoples. It’s quite frightening, if anything, that some people show such a deep and inherent, even unconscious, mistrust and I would even argue hatred towards a population that makes up 1 out of every 5 people in this planet. </p>
<p>Thank you for sharing your stories. However at the same time I hope you all do realize that your little anecdotal ‘evidence’, as fascinating as they may be, further propogate the way for stereotypes, I can tell you I’ve had bad encounters with people of every religion and ethnicity, and if someone started a thread like this for different groups I’d have more than enouigh stories to tell. Here’s some easy hits: “yeah some black guy mugged me… I’d be cautious, they mug people” “yeah some jewish guy ripped her off big time in the business contract… seriously, do not work with them” But at the end of the day am I really contributing anything except one or two isolated incidences? Even if 5 other people post the same thing, does a pattern emerge that can be used to judge millions of people? Or has this (EXACTLY this) not been what created some of the worst ethnic/religious conflicts and injustices in the world? Think about it.</p>
<p>Finally for the person who mentioned “Not Without My Daughter”, I hope you do realize that 1) Iran is not “some Arab country” (I enjoy how people lump together the culture and lifestyles and beliefs of a whole half a continent into a lump that they can conveniently stereotypes- specially when they’re not even arab) and secondly, 2) I hope you also realize that the movie has been heavily criticized for gross misrepresentation of facts and exaggerations (or essentially being propganda) by people from all different sides of the political spectrum. Of course then again it’s a MOVIE, but then again… as it was shown here, some people take it quite seriously. (btw. I suggest you see Reel Bad Arab -and actual documentary that might help you see what I am talking about)</p>
<p>i’m glad this discussion is taking place
should be required reading for young women
or the young men who can’t understand why their girlfriends’ families distrust them so</p>
<p>Irishmomof2: “I would be concerned if my daughter was marrying a Muslim or a born-again, evangelical Christian or anyone who believed that woman were secondary to men. I’m not saying I would try to stop her, I’m just saying I would be concerned.”</p>
<p>Hahaha. I loved that phrase. For months I have been reading CC, but reluctant to post. I am not a born-again evangelical Christian and I am not a Muslim, but I think its amazing what Irishmomof2 posted.</p>
<p>She is concerned when her daughter marries:</p>
<p>a. A muslim man</p>
<p>b. A born again evangelical</p>
<p>c. A man who thinks women are secondary</p>
<p>Haha. Wow I cannot stop laughing.</p>
<p>Obviosuly the insult to the Muslims is challenged, and rightfully, so. The insult to the born again Christian, however, is left to stand. A clear indication of CC’s liberal and tolerant dynamics. HAHA</p>
<p>When you post on CC Parents forum to find out what troubles and concerns parents have, as the OP did sincerely, you’ll find out what parents think. If you want academic help and ask for it that way, parents will also try to help.</p>
<p>IrishMomof2 stated hers as an “I” statement. She didn’t wash it onto anyone else.</p>
<p>Go back and read the OP. OP wanted to hear from parents, in order to understand another set of parents.</p>
<p>Yes, there are a lot of stereotypes described here. I, for one, see an undercurrent issue as that of domestic violence. The founder of the “American Domestic Violence Crisis Line” (who is depicted in the video I linked in post #11) has a very poignant section in her website about the “myths” of domestic violence. <a href=“http://www.866uswomen.org/cultural_myths/cultural_myths.cfm[/url]”>http://www.866uswomen.org/cultural_myths/cultural_myths.cfm</a>
In it, she states “no culture or religion encourages men to abuse their wives”. It is a good read. I would be interested in others’ opinions about what is described in this link</p>
<p>I know a mom who had to flee Saudi Arabia, they had already found her daughter a husband, and she was 8…it was cultural as much as religious, the mom feels okay sending the oldest son back to visit, but no way would she send her daughter back</p>
<p>as for anectotal, well I also read the news, and any countries that doesn’t let women drive, or insists they will be covered, allows for stoning, doesn’t punish men that hurt women, have different rules for men and women, well., that isn’t so anectotal now is it</p>
<p>Yes. Today, after the ‘what if your kid is gay thread’ deletions, as opposed to what’s been kept, that’s been made very clear to me once again - it’s astounding.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>True and they’re probably just smarter than those of us who keep banging our heads against the wall. :)</p>
<p>It amounts to that, actually. Whether it is 20 percent or 100 percent random in nature (i.e. how much of the result depends on purely random effects) varies, but the random component is certainly high for marriage.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Random doesn’t mean that at all. Random selection with equal probability is an extreme special case, and it is not what was under discussion here.
The whole basis for probability, statistics and their use is the possibility, indeed the universality, of unequal (distributions of) probabilities.</p>
<p>It is not the “encourage to abuse their wives”, it is the FAILURE to prosecute the abusers, to turn the other way, to ignore it when it happens, and to do such, it is the same as encouraging it IMO</p>
<p>If a culture has a history of blaming women for men’s failures, and then does nothing or very little when women are killed or hurt that is encouraging</p>
<p>Mexico FINALLY passed laws that deal with domestic violence, before it was barely a crime, so to say that “no culture encourages men to abuse their wives” is pretty darn scary and naive at best</p>
<p>reallity and people’s experience and history show otherwise</p>
<p>I can kind of understand what the article is saying, people using their OWN religion to justify abuse, however, to make the claim that no culture encouranges it is just wrong…</p>
<p>a society that does not enforce laws, or even have laws to protect women from abuse encourage it…</p>
<p>Her point, cgm, as the victim of domestic violence overseas, is that it has no boundaries. I fully agree-- that treating women like second class citizens is unacceptable. We probaly have equally as much domestic violence here in the US as they do in the Middle East (though I do not know the statistics). It is the shame and blame, the blaming the victim, the denial/minimization of the problem that is unacceptable, in any culture, in any religion, in any country.</p>