<p>Actually, I believe abuse can be a byproduct of culture. In patriarchal societies especially, sexual harassment and abuse of women is more widely accepted. I also think that the fact that “family shame” supercedes reporting abuse is a cultural byproduct and encourages propogation of violence towards women.</p>
<p>A major part of feminism and women’s rights movements here in America (which, btw, do not exist in a lot of patriarchal societies) was setting up a framework within our justice system in which abusers can be prosecuted. If a culture exalts the authority of men over women, propogates the notion of “family shame” to such an extent that wives are overlooked, and the justice system is unresponsive to or uneducated about abuse cases…It appears to be impossible to make the argument that abuse against women is not in many ways determined by culture.</p>
<p>The block of text you quoted actually supports the view that culture influences the propogation of domestic violence in some countries.</p>
<p>This is not a stereotype about Muslims, but a statement about societies that are a.) patriarchal and/or b.) have conservative notions of “family shame” that paralyze appropriate action. These items seem characteristic of many Middle Eastern countries nowadays, although that is not to say American society was not like that at one point, either (and in some instances still can be)!</p>
<p>Me neither. I’m a Muslim feminist and while I see the massive problems plaguing the Islamic world today, I also see a lot of islamophobia and plain ignorance, especially in the United States.</p>
<p>frrrph–good to see a “Muslim feminist.” You must sometimes feel like Sojourner Truth or Susan B. Anthony. I wish you luck and may your granddaughters have true freedom and equality with men.</p>
<p>I would have my concerns if it was my D. I have several friends who married Muslim men who as some others have stated “changed”. I have one friend who is not allowed to wear shorts. (She is an athlete). Another who must show her husband each piece of clothing she buys. I know this is a bias of mine and there are marriages of muslim and american woman that run smoothly and equally. I also know there is the risk of a same religion man also being controlling.
I have a sister in law who was raised Muslim in a Middle Eastern nation. Her family is very liberal and supported her in her higher education in the US and have supported her in her marriage to a Christian male. They have also opened their hearts and homes to my brother. I asked her this question and she also felt that she would not want any of her nieces marrying a Syrian. (her country has had issues with Syria)
She also noted and I have observed over the years that she thought long and hard and waited for the right political time to take my brother back to her home country. Not because her family would not have welcomed him but that she feared for his life and safety. She has lived through enough times where it was not unusual for an American to be a candidate for kidnap. She felt that this is not the time in history to be an American in a Muslim country.</p>
<p>ok, so we’re understanding that the issue isn’t about anything against a Muslim son-in-law, rather it’s about the future for the American daughter-in-law who visits or lives in a MIddle Eastern Arab nation (some less repressive than others). </p>
<p>And not travel for a honeymoon (see the OP)-- I think that will probably go fine. Rather, travel and family decision-making for years to come, especially once there are children.</p>
<p>Aside from different laws re: child custody, women’s rights of travel, abuse, divorce laws…</p>
<p>let’s suppose the marriage works out okay.</p>
<p>Will the woman own her earnings? If she works hard and they buy a house together there, does she own half or does it all belong to him? If property is all in his name (which I think but don’t know), then can he throw her out of their house after a quarrel? If so, where does she go, when she has no mother there to run home to as a Syrian wife would do. I wonder about all these things. </p>
<p>I admit I don’t know the answers. I’m just telling you which questios I, as a “tolerant liberal parent” would be asking and demanding to know IF my D were to marry someone from Syria.</p>
<p>It’s been on their travel warning list since the US Embassy was attacked by by “assailants using improvised explosives, gunfire, and two vehicles laden with explosives” in September 2006. </p>
<p>The site says that if she goes, she should be sure to register with the Consulate right away so she can get updated security information and travel information. </p>
<p>Also, IIRC, Syria is one of the countries that we’ve embargoed the export of certain technologies to. She should make sure before she goes that she knows what the rules are.</p>
<p>I’m also sensitive to the fact that this OP has a best friend right over there now. OP, there is no need to worry for your friend’s life this week! But please, she should follow the State Department’s warnings as stated.</p>
<p>paying3,
I am confused. Where does the OP say he/she has a friend over there right now? Was it in a post that may have been purged in this morning’s clean-up? I don’t see any post, besides the original one, by the OP in the thread.</p>
<p>As for the honeymoon, that State Dept travel warning is pretty scary. Also, as others have mentioned, there is a risk that the H and his family might decide that they should stick around in Syria rather than return to the states. Now, I don’t know this fellow and I realize I am making generalizations, but there are other places to honeymoon… maybe his family, if they are not coming to the US for the wedding, could meet them in a mutual location- like the coast of France or something. That way, she gets to meet the inlaws, they get to visit with the two of them, and they have a nice honeymoon. Just a thought…</p>
<p>I hate to sound like such an alarmist, but from my reading, by Syrian law, any male born to a Syrian male is a citizen of Syria. They don’t recognize dual citizenship or nationalism. So whatever his status here, once he gets there, he’s a Syrian citizen and the US Embassy cannot intervene in his situation. </p>
<p>Syria does have conscription into the military. I saw on the Australian government’s webpage that Syria gives a 3 month grace period for Syrian citizens from Australia to visit and leave Syria before being drafted, but I haven’t seen anything about the US one way or the other.</p>
<p>jym, sorry to confuse/
no purge-atory here
I only meant that since the OP mentioned “honeymoon,” I got the picture that this marriage has already occurred, or will occur within this year. It did sound like a recent or current concern from the OP. That’s all.</p>
<p>conyat, I never thought of military conscription (“the draft” as we call it here) of a male son. Do you study international relations, or what? I don’t always agree with your politics but I am learning from your information today.</p>
<p>No, I just got curious and decided to google and read about it, since the OP was asking for input. Hopefully the honeymoon wouldn’t be long enough to be an issue, but it’s hard to tell when people are talking about an overseas trip for a honeymoon how long they plan to stay. </p>
<p>(My great-grandmother was born in New Orleans during the two year long world tour her parents took as a honeymoon. Her mother liked New Orleans so much that she eventually came back, sent for her D. in time, and we’ve been here ever since.)</p>
<p>It’s the randomness in outcomes that is under discussion. Saying that a random American and random Syrian have different likelihoods of certain problems arising in the marriage does not mean that the husband is chosen by lottery, but that the chances of such problems are correlated with husband’s nationality. </p>
<p><a href=“jym:”>quote</a>you are both right. From the Webster’s dictionary:
2. Statistics. of or characterizing a process of selection in which each item of a set has an equal probability of being chosen
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That is one particular usage in English, but it is not the standard usage of the term “random” as it concerns statistics or probability.</p>
<p>^^^Ummmm… huh?? Actually, while this is waaaay off topic, things in nature fall into a standard, or normally distributed bell curve. The items may fall into the curve in a random fashion, but the ultimate distrubition is constant, represented by the bell curve. OK, back to the topic at hand.</p>
<p>You know, this combination of political/culture dialogue, interspersed contrapuntally with a debate on probability theory is wonky. Also, rather rare, er, not likely to occur. (Except here.)</p>
<p>Some things do and some don’t. They might follow a bell curve, a flat curve (i.e., selection with equal probability), or some other “curve”. That this option exists is the very essence and foundation of probability and statistics.</p>
<p>I’m not a parent, but I would be concerned on how some muslim man think of women. They need to understand that my daughter isnt a step stool nor an object. She’s your wife, She loves you. Love her, treasure her thats all I’d ask and object.</p>
<p>Iran isn’t an Arab nation, but people seemed alarmed about that culture. </p>
<p>I see a large difference between generations here. Personally I would say that is probably because of exposure to first generation immigrants as opposed to exposure to second or third generation immigrants. I know a lot of Middle Eastern kids who are practicing Muslims (Arab and Persian), but they were born in America and in some cases their parents were too, or came as small children. Some don’t practice traditional dress and neither do their parents. People may find it hard to believe there are “liberal” Muslims out there but I know plenty of kids of my school (obviously there is not such a concentration in many areas which may make it more foreign, we have an unusually high concentration) who basically are American kids who practice another religion. I’m not aware that anyone I know is specifically from Syria…but a lot of these people are kids from families that came to America for a reason. Yes sometimes their parents subscribe to the religious ideals a little more, but some people are making it sound like these people will have some switch where automatically they will be triggered to become an oppressive wife abuser. Come on now. I have no idea about the OP’s case, we would really need much information. But some of the comments on this thread have been rather generalized. You know I could marry any American and he could decide to convert to any religion or “return to traditional values” down the line, get addicted to heroin, sustain a head injury that causes a change in personality. And you know I will honestly say, yes I know some practicing Muslims who I would feel if I married them there is about as much a risk of them deciding to become super strict with their interpretation of the Shariah as marrying an American with Judeo-Christian roots and the above happening. </p>
<p>I honestly think that some people don’t have a lot of experience with all the spectrums of Islam. yes, we hear all these “Not Without My Daughter” stories. And they are compelling and obviously people should make good decisions, yes. But the truth is, you hear them because they are news and because they appeal to a confirmation bias that makes us want to hear them. I know of successful non-Muslim/raised Muslim marriages - do you hear about them on the news? No. Why not? Because they aren’t a good story. The truth is, I honestly have no idea what the “odds” are, but just like twenty million cars travel safely and you hear about the one accident on the news, so too are there probably many successful marriages of this kind that you don’t hear about. But do you not drive a car because you might get into an accident? For most of us, no, probably not. What do you do instead, you try to drive safely to minimize the risk of an accident, however the risk is always there and you will never completely eliminate it. Indeed, marrying any Muslim, you may take the risk that if they weren’t before, they may become randomly into a super strict and traditional interpretation of the religion. They may also convert to Judaism, what can I tell you? Many people may suddenly change after marriage but we do take calculated risks in life. Before marrying anyone people have to evaluate the different situations and try to predict. Muslim or not. I really don’t see Muslims as some strange breed of humans with a more delicate ability to “snap”, really there is chance with most anyone, some being more prone to it than others. Just watch Dr Phil lately, that insane husband stalker guy, he is not Muslim, and he is about as oppressive, controlling, abusive, and dangerous as they come.</p>
<p>old topic but just wanted to say that women are second class citizens in any society… not just arab civilizations or mexican civilizations, etc. I’m a woman btw.</p>
<p>In America, women earn less than men, have more responsibilities than men, and still aren’t fully compensated. Women on average wear clothes that are more fitted and shorter than men’s clothes. I’d rather be fully covered than having strangers look at my butt cheeks or cleavage. But I’d rather be modestly dressed than fully covered.</p>