Hello All! Now in front of me is hard dilemma what advice to give my son. He did great job with applications and admitted to 12 universities in 5 countries. But unfortunately for our special situation no one from this twelve is perfect choice. One more problem is that I never studied in Europe and never was in USA, so my own experience is very limited.
In USA he was admitted to USC and CWRU … and they already turned down. Because they admitted him but with zero scholarship, and their full price absolutely not adequate to my finances. For the same reason U of Toronto was turned down, tiny scholarship and non-affordable price.
In Australia he admitted to U of Melbourne and Monash U, but they refused even to review his applications for scholarship, because they don’t trust to predicted grades and will wait for official results. Issue is that IB will release official results 6 July, and 29 July is already start of semester in Australia. Hard to believe that in less than 3 weeks before start of study they will have any scholarship funds available. So despite my son have 42/42 IB points in his last midyear report with 4HL/2SL, and 45/45 predicted, I estimating his chances to get any scholarship in Australia as miserable. It’s more likely he will get several compliments how they impressed by his results and regrets that they already without funds. And without scholarships their cost also not affordable.
Three other U also appeared not so good for different reasons and end of day his real choice is between:
IIT or College of Wooster in USA. They were generous with scholarship and that make price affordable for me. But with all my respect to them that are not top U
TU Delft in Netherlands. It is famous U in Europe, don’t know how in USA, and that moment is our choice
Fast Route program in Glasgow U (Honors Bs in 3 years)
After cross comparison we preferred Delft over Glasgow, so now it is competition Delft vs USA. Generally my question not so much about universities selection. I’m confident that for CS study Delft is undoubtedly better, though I open to your opinions. Especially for my son it better, because he want to study CS with a focus on engineering, and in engineering Delft is excellent. But that is academic point of view and we are living in real world. And in this real world:
For our citizenship it is very hard to get US work visa (as well as EU work visa also). Generally education in USA is single option to do it with relatively good odd
As much as I placing Delft higher than College of Wooster for CS+engineering study, I placing USA higher than Netherlands for work abilities for talented CS professional
So for me choice IIT or College of Wooster vs TU Delft it is not so about university selection, but rather choice Better postgraduate abilities vs Better education.
Right now best way that I see for my son is to do Bs in Delft and then make attempt with PhD admission in top US universities. But how realistic is it? Will Delft grade have some value in USA, especially for top programs admission? Do you know about TU Delft something?
Or may be stop this racing for top awards and just enter IIT or College of Wooster? I’m confident there he will be star student. Then 3 years of OPT with enough good chances for transfer to H1B and so on. Honestly I don’t want this way for him. I’m confident he able to much more than just to get some visa. But at the same time I wish good life for my boy. That more important for me than any top awards.
People from my country have dozens times less abilities in life than US or EU citizens. I think that right university selection now is main chance in life of my son that will predict all his future. And I afraid to make mistake with this, because it can be fatal and irrecoverable. I really need your advises.
Thank you for information. But Delft for this area is probably in TOP20 of the world. And Delft will be 1.5 time cheaper. Money also matter for me.
And specific interest of my son is not so about computer engineering itself, but rather application of CS in engineering area. In control and embedded systems, power industry, ect. It little bit another
I think the good news with respect to his options is that IIT might be at least as strong for his academic interests as the two U.S. schools that were unaffordable. Based on what you have said about TU Delft, it seems as if he has at least two excellent choices at this point. (However, as a side note, I tend not to regard “world” type university rankings as being especially relevant to undergraduate study, particularly for the U.S., in which some of the top colleges maintain a strong undergraduate focus.)
For a final choice, he may simply want to select TU Delft based on its lower cost. He could pursue graduate school in the U.S. after his studies there.
" He could pursue graduate school in the U.S. at a later point."
That is point. What is value of TU Delft grade for US PhD programs admissions? Will he be competitive with Bs from US universities?
The variety of U.S. PhD programs makes it likely that your son would have options in the U.S. after successfully completing (i.e., with some degree of distinction) a degree at TU Delft.
I am very familiar with the ranking systems both in the US and world rankings. I completely agree that the world rankings are focused on research only and not undergraduate education.
As a professor at IIT, and having had a child graduate form here as well, I can tell you that our students have no problem finding jobs (even OPT) and getting into outstanding graduate programs in just about any STEM discipline.
Your final decision should be made on the financial aspects of the choice and the specifics of the programs which make the school a good fit for your child. Don’t worry about rankings at the undergraduate level. If you have any specific questions about IIT, just PM me.
Btw, I should say that “top-50” as used above in reference to IIT wasn’t intended to suggest 50th. I’d simply meant to suggest somewhere within the top 50.
If IIT is Iliinois Institute of Technology… They don’t have issues at all getting good internships or jobs. Too me it is a hidden diamond in the rough.
Dear All. Definitely I don’t think that IIT or College of Wooster are bad. In that case my son just wouldn’t applied to them. I want to get idea IN COMPARISON with TU Delft. From your American point of view.
For example, if 3-4 years later my son will apply to Ms or PhD CS program in MIT, or UIUC, or Berkley, or UMich. I think it realistic, because now his results outstanding, I believe and in college he will keep the same level. What background will be more useful for him? Ranked near world Top50 in CS Delft, but foreign for you, or not so high ranked university, but American?
In general, what is attitude of top US U admissions to graduates from European U? Does they accepting them as peers to graduates from American U of equivalent level? I understand that for the first must be personal achivements. But if they will compare GPA 4.0 from Delft with GPA 4.0 from IIT? What will have bigger weight?
Graduate admissions is completely distinct from undergrad admissions. The departments handle that, not the university. The faculty members know which programs around the world are producing applicants with the skill sets that prepare them for grad school. Often the faculty members know the individual professors at those foreign universities. Also, when your son does apply to grad school the right grad program for his specific goals could be one that you had never heard of before. TU Delft is an excellent option right now for your son. He should not be afraid to study there.
@happymomof1 Does you know something about TU Delft or you answering in general? I’m serious. Please understand, I never no one day was in USA. I don’t know how you thinking, what you know and what don’t, what is your priorites. I know very little about your life.
I really trying to figure out. If my son will enter Delft now and then make attempt with US graduate admissions, what relation he will meet? Will they take him as graduate of first-rank university? Or he will meet round eyes “Delft? Where it is? Somewhere in Africa?”
I know that not so much people from West Europe coming to USA for study. But why? Because they don’t want? Or because they can’t be admitted?
I don’t know about TU Delft in particular. I am familiar with grad admission in the US.
Grad admission is not like undergrad. Students first think carefully about what they want to study in grad school, they read research papers on those subjects, they find out which universities have research teams and investigators working on those specific topics. They think about where they want to work after they finish grad school, and which programs will help them get work in those places. Then they apply for admission to the grad programs that interest them. The program might be in Tokyo or in Paris or in Bonn or in Grand Forks. Often they communicate directly with the professor who they want to study with. The professors who read the application know all of the universities that have programs in their field of study, including ones not in their country. For each field of study, the research community really is very small. They all publish in the same journals and go to the same conferences. They will pick up the telephone and call their colleague to ask about a specific applicant if they want to know more.
Graduates of European universities come to grad school in the US all the time. They do not have any spcial difficulty in getting admitted. Many probably choose to remain in Europe for the same reasons most US students choose to remain in the US. It just is easier to stay close to home.
I agree with @happymomof1 students with strong academics and good letters of recommendation can easily find a place in a US graduate program. The most important thing that you need to decide about TU Delft is whether your son will have the opportunity to get involved in research while an undergraduate. This is common at US universities and while it is not an absolute necessity, it is an important factor in graduate admissions. Form their Wikipedia entry, TU Delft has a relatively small undergraduate population by European standards. This would make it easier for students to get involved in research.
World rankings don’t apply to undergraduate programs so they don’t really matter for undergraduate students getting into grad school.
What’s the cost difference for you between IIT and TU Delft?
(I wouldn’t have taken the advanced-entry BS from Glasgow off the table, but I don’t know how their program encapsulates what you want. In particular, would it cover a year or semester in the US? Typically Glasgow takes care of costs so that your son might be able to attend a US university, establish his “bona fide”, his “strength”, without having to pay the full costs of a US university. If that’s something you might want to revisit I can look up whether that’s possible.)
TU Delft: it’ll be known in the US, it’s a top program indeed. Your son will have to be among the top students in his program, because European programs aren’t as personalized as US programs, therefore it’s harder for students to know professors and professors students, which can be harder for a recommendation. In addition, while several students may be admitted from a US university, I can’t think of a top program admitting more than 1 from a given university (ie., a US program would likely admit ONE student from Delft).
You also need to check whether he’ll be able to do research: some US colleges may request a 4th year as often research isn’t conducted in the undergraduate years in Europe, but this may not apply for CS since it’s so hands-on so check.
Would he be able to work freely off campus at Delft?
Does he have housing (or do you have a way to secure housing? Preferably for all 3 or 4 years, since it can be difficult for international students to secure housing from one year to the next, so a contract that extends longer than 1 year is good).
He’ll study CS and it’ll be highly specialized, very intense, he’ll be surrounded by top-notch peers. He’ll be able to go on from there to many universities in Europe.
IIT:
You’ll be in a major American city, with many opportunities for internships. The curriculum will include some classes outside of CS to make for a well-rounded person (in written and oral communication -in English of course-, in history or sociology of the US, in economics…) Housing is guaranteed. With a degree in CS, he’ll have 3 years OPT to show what he’s worth before applying for graduate school. Students in US colleges are involved in research if they wish to be and of course American universities are well aware of the quality of the program and American professors are used to writing recommendations so he wouldn’t have to be “the one” (or “one of the few”) in his program to have a shot at the best graduate progams in CS.
However he would not be allowed to work off campus (only summer internships or one-day-a-week designated externship, all related to CS - no random job) and it won’t be as intense as at Delft.
@MYOS1634 My heartfelt thanks for you brilliant answer. It gave me lot of useful information. I apologize for late responce, last several days I was and sick, and very busy.
For me IIT for 35-40000$ more expensive than Delft, Wooster several thousands cheaper than Delft, and Glasgow have same price as Delft
Honours program after 1st year. “The aim of the TU Delft Honours Programme is to provide an additional challenge to students who demonstrate outstanding academic achievement in their very first year. Students get the opportunity, at an early stage of their studies, to learn about scientific methods and how to apply them, to come into contact with a network of scientists and other talented students, and to allow them to participate immediately in real research projects.” Students who have obtained an average grade of 8/10 for all study components are admitted straight away. For my son that is realistic target.
Wide international exchange network for study one semester abroad. Options with USA for CS are Purdue, UT at Austin, UMCP. For UK Imperial College. Ect
Delft participate in sirop.org where “Thousands of students and researchers use SiROP to post and search open positions such as internships, Master, Bachelor or PhD projects”
“BSc Computer Science will be concluded with the Bachelor’s Thesis. The project is a real development project for a client (business or other organisation). The student works in a group (2, 3 or 4). If you are interested in doing your project abroad, you can contact the International and Internship Office to see which help we can offer you.”
A lot of research programs at CS faculty
CONTRA:
Intake to CS program this year is 500 people
From Delft site: “The housing department has reached the maximum number of applications that can be accommodated through its service. You can no longer apply! Students whose payments were received after May 17th cannot be accommodated through our housing service and will need to make their own arrangements. TU Delft strongly advises all international students to secure accommodation before the start of their study program”
And one more important thing. We are from so underprivileged country that single option to start job after graduation he will have only in country where he graduated
With the added information, here’s my opinion: contact the international student office at Delft. See whether they can help you secure a room in a flatshare. Or are the significant savings partly available to house him in a nice studio (=will be expensive, it could add $8-10,000 to your current costs).
Also contact Glasgow. Get details about the program, any special opportunities, etc. Also ask about housing.