<p>Slitheytove , it is one of the sorry you posted ( I did not see it before I posted).
Hanna I agree with you.</p>
<p>Whoa there. Not guilt at all. I have helped out many of those who have done work for us. And vice versa. Some have become friends. Even those who would not be in that category, are definitely people in our lives that we would help if they need or want it, if we can.<br>
The woman who cleans for us has a nephew who I will try to help get a scholarship to my sons’ school. I can see a number of scenarios where I would get involved and it has nothing to do with guilt. </p>
<p>When my MIL had health issues, the same housekeeper helped us out tremendously. They volunteered services, came up with things from their home that they felt was helpful. We work together.</p>
<p>Hey Zoosermom:</p>
<p>I don’t need to know “the posters or the histories involved” to call it racism. Some of these posters don’t even disguise their disdain for “illegal aliens”. I am a first generation Latina and my parents came to the United States less than a year before I was born. I have had to struggle my whole life to get where I’ve gotten. My brother and I shared the one bedroom in our apartment and my parents slept on the pull out couch in the living room. And our address was in a horrible part of LA. So while you may have helped out, and that is commendable, I have lived it. </p>
<p>I see a lot of myself in this girl, many times I wondered what the heck I was doing at UCSD, I was on academic probation a couple of times but it was never for lack of effort. School is so much harder when your parents don’t speak English and they can’t help you with your homework and you can’t afford SAT review classes and you have to take a public bus to the library etc… But, low and behold not only did I graduate UCSD but I got my MS a few years later. And now, my son has been accepted EA to Stanford.</p>
<p>So, the moral of my story is really the only difference between me and the young lady at USLA is that I had the good fortune, or rather good luck of being born here.</p>
<p>Momofknowitall, you actually know nothing and have proven it with your posts here. There will never be any understanding or agreement when people call dissent “racism” based on their own ignorance and assumptions. You may have “lived it” but you obviously have no comprehension of the impact of illegal immigration on others, the costs involved, and the less-than-pretty consequences. Feel free to keep your head in the sand and call people names. As a result, don’t be surprised when you aren’t taken too seriously here.</p>
<p>By the way, what do YOU do, personally, to help undocumented folks?</p>
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<p>Sorry, but you are not as unique as think. Your story is no different from the relatives of probably 99% of the people reading this thread. It does not make you qualified to call others racists.</p>
<p>Parentofivyhope, you are seriously uninformed. </p>
<p>** It is undisputed that the vast majority of illegal immigrants pay payroll taxes.** The Social Security Administration itself estimates that at least 75% do. How do they know this? The huge surpluses in social security payments from accounts with fake numbers. Illegal immigrants contribute over $7 billion annually to Social Security alone although they cannot collect retirement benefits.</p>
<p>There is no evidence that illegal immigrants contributed to the housing crisis. If anything that are a much lower credit risk than the typical borrower. Illegal immigrants could not get access to sub-prime loans but the so-called ITN loans. (ITIN stands for Individual Taxpayer Identification Number and allows illegal immigrants to open bank accounts, pay taxes and get loans.) Nationally, for loans more than 90 days in arrears, ITIN mortgages had a delinquency rate of about 0.5% last year, compared with 9.3% for subprime mortgages, according to independent estimates.</p>
<p>Illegal immigrants use much less resources than the typical resident. The Welfare Reform Act of 1996 disqualified illegal immigrants from receiving benefits like food stamps or welfare benefits, or access to Medicaid or Medicare funded healthcare.</p>
<p>A recent study by the New England journal of Medicine concluded:
[NEJM</a> – Immigrants and Health Care – At the Intersection of Two Broken Systems](<a href=“http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/357/6/525]NEJM”>http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/357/6/525)</p>
<p>As far as the economic effect of immigration, not a single study found a significant negative effect of immigration on wages or opportunities for natives. Probably the best study on the issue is the metanalysis by the Cato Institute," Immigration, the Demographic & Economic Facts" published in 1995. Eighty-five percent of eminent economists surveyed in the study have concluded that undocumented immigrants have had a positive (seventy-four percent) or neutral (eleven percent) impact on the U.S. economy.</p>
<p>[Immigration:</a> The Demographic and Economic Facts](<a href=“http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/pr-immig.html]Immigration:”>http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/pr-immig.html)</p>
<p>In the specific case of people like Karina de la Cruz, the benefits far outweigh the costs.
The National Research Council in an extensive study in 1996 found the net present value of the fiscal impact of an immigrant with a college education to be around $200,000 over their lifetime. </p>
<p>[The</a> New Americans: Economic, Demographic, and Fiscal Effects of Immigration](<a href=“http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=5779]The”>Front Matter | The New Americans: Economic, Demographic, and Fiscal Effects of Immigration | The National Academies Press)</p>
<p>before we succumb to xenophobia or paranoia, it may actually help to look at the facts.</p>
<p>Cellardweller I will respond to you with links tomorrow from my office. I don’t have access to those on this computer.</p>
<p>One thing jumped out at me, though: “published in 1995” As a person on the frontlines of the immigration debate for a decade before and after that date, I can say with certainty that data from 1995 doesn’t tell the whole tale presently.</p>
<p>Since this thread is about a California state school, here is recent relevant info, also from the LA Times, stating that illegal immigration costs CA about $5 billion annually:[Illegal</a> immigrants are a factor in California’s budget math - Los Angeles Times](<a href=“http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-cap2-2009feb02,0,7223677.column]Illegal”>Illegal immigrants are a factor in the budget gap math)</p>
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<p>That is certainly true. Since the 1996 Welfare Reform Act, illegal immigrants have been cut off from virtually all assistance programs, so their use of state provided services has declined dramatically since. Their net positive contribution is greater than it ever was. </p>
<p>The sole remaining and constitutionally protected right afforded illegal immigrants is that of K-12 education. Providing the service is overwhelmingly beneficial to the states.</p>
<p>I don’t defend being here illegally and have not researched all of the issues to formulate a definitive opinion. But this part of the article Bay posted says it all for me:</p>
<p>On the other hand, they are here. We can’t have uneducated kids and unhealthy people living with us. We have moral obligations and practical imperatives</p>
<p>A high school graduate is not an uneducated kid.</p>
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<p>Why do you assume a lot of people did?
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<p>you must be kidding right. </p>
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you surely are joking. </p>
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you are lucky you get to go to library, I had to go to work and also to school on bus. </p>
<p>I never did complain that I did not get to UCLA, I’m sure my stats were well qualified. I commuted using the bus to my local college, a TTT. Please get over yourselves of all these self-pity. I know plenty of people that were in the same boat and came out very well in the end.</p>
<p>OP: You claim that illegal aliens are not eligible for any financial aid, but that’s clearly untrue. They have been receiving aid in excess of 25,000 per illegal student per academic year in the form of in-state tuition. At least until the pending constitutional equal protection lawsuit is decided.</p>
<p>Cellardwellar: What support if any do you have for your assertion that “There is no evidence that illegal immigrants contributed to the housing crisis. If anything that [they?]are a much lower credit risk than the typical borrower.” Estimates are that 40% or more of subprime loans were to hispanics in poor neighborhoods with high immigrant and illegal populations. They took out a disproportionate number of NINJA loans , which required no income or asset verification and no SSN or proof of legal status. These were tailor made for the illegal immigrant populations of these neighborhoods and were heavily promoted by government and immigrant groups, and not surprisingly these are the loans with the very high default rates. It is clearly part of the problem. “Much lower credit risk than the typical borrower” ???
[IBDeditorials.com:</a> Editorials, Political Cartoons, and Polls from Investor’s Business Daily – Fannie, Freddie And Now, Hannie](<a href=“http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=316915247323541]IBDeditorials.com:”>http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=316915247323541)</p>
<p>mia:</p>
<p>You confuse hispanics generally with unauthorized immigrants. It is true that subprimes were heavily pushed on the hispanic community, many of whom were low income. But they are all authorized residents. Unauthorized immigrants only qualify for ITIN mortgages. An unauthorized immigrant can’t even open a bank account without one, let alone get a mortage. Whether NINJA or not, ITIN mortages have very low default rates. Blaming the housing crisis on illegal immigrants. Another example of demagogery run amuck!</p>
<p>As far as providing in-state tuition to tax-paying residents, authorized or unauthorized, I think is only fair, not a handout. It is also a wise investment as a graduating college student will bring far more to the state than the cost of any tuition discount.</p>
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cellardweller : I’m not the uninformed but you might be living in a dream world.
I’m very logical and it is very logical that illegal immigration is a NET drain on California as well as USA economy.
I’m giving up on you as it is possible to teach an ignorant but not some one who is bent upon changing facts.</p>
<p>If you understand that it is a drain on the economy but want to talk about how best to resolve this problem then I might join in but ignoring the fact that this is the most serious problem with CA budget is not a way to solve our financial crises.</p>
<p>Illegal residents should not have a right to UCs education at in-state rates or under in-state quota. These illegal resident should compete as international candidates and if get in should be provided a F-1 visa. That will bring them out of their illegal status and will provide a smooth way to legal status.</p>
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Again you defy logic when you say people who are legal are higher credit risk than illegal residents. Persons who can’t hold a regular job and properly document income are the one that are pushed to subprime loans. All resident who can document income and are legal resident will find better loans.
Illegals have nothing to loose as if the things get tough they can just move to a different state under a different name/ID.
Legal resident who have everything to loose including the house have to bear the crunch of this illegal residents sub prime loan problem, as they can’t just assume another name and ID.</p>
<p>Illegal residents are the major cause of Identity Theft. Legal resident doesn’t need to assume some one else identity to work or get credit card but illegals do. Illegal resident give rise to crime at all level.</p>
<p>So please get your facts straight and acknowledge that this is a serious problem and if not resolved will take CA into drain.</p>
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<p>POIH, I agree it sounds illogical, but it’s true that illegal immigrants have a lower default rate on mortgages. A quick search on mortgage default rate for illegal immigrants shows that I heard the story on NPR, but there are other similar stories. </p>
<p>I will agree that illegal immigration is a net drain on California’s economy, but not necessarily on the US as a whole. However, you are flat out wrong that illegal residents are the major cause of identity theft. The rise in identity theft is because it’s a money maker.</p>
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<p>One thing is sure nothing can defy logic in this world. You can twist statistics to your own good but facts remain that everything obeys logic in this universe.
I don’t know how can you track illegal’s credit worthiness as if an illegal takes a credit card on your name and default on it.
Will it be a default by a legal resident (i.e. you) or the illegal resident who can’t be traced?
I hope you teach your children that anything that sounds too good to be true is really not true.</p>
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I’m 100% correct. Crime is an industry and it nurture on the markets. What is the value of the Social Security Card of Afghans in Afghanistan? 0. Will anyone tries to get hold of Pakistan passport?
But there is a value for US Social Security Card or US passport because you can sell it to illegal’s in US or in other countries to become illegal’s in US. That is the market which fuel crime. If US has strong illegal immigration policies, no one will bother with identity thefts other the criminal that are trying to make money so you can easily trace those.</p>
<p>Now there is a necessity for people to do identity theft so that they can just work.</p>
<p>Illegal immigrants are absolutely the catalyst for most identity theft in the US. It’s disingenuous to imply that it’s market driven when illegal immigration IS the catalyst.</p>
<p>The costs to the states with regard to hospital closings, schools AND prison populations, is staggering. The cost to the families and communities left behind is just as high. But that is often conveniently forgotten.</p>
<p>[National</a> Council of La Raza: Programs](<a href=“http://www.nclr.org/content/programs/detail/895/]National”>http://www.nclr.org/content/programs/detail/895/)</p>
<p>[N.Va</a>. Foreclosures Form ‘Ring of Fire’ - washingtonpost.com](<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/22/AR2008032202086_2.html]N.Va”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/22/AR2008032202086_2.html)</p>
<p>[Immigrants</a> hit hard by slowdown, subprime crisis | U.S. | Reuters](<a href=“http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN3019759720080130?feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews&pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0&sp=true]Immigrants”>http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN3019759720080130?feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews&pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0&sp=true)</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.jpands.org/vol10no1/cosman.pdf[/url]”>http://www.jpands.org/vol10no1/cosman.pdf</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.saveemergencycare.org/stories/latimes081704.pdf[/url]”>http://www.saveemergencycare.org/stories/latimes081704.pdf</a></p>
<p>[Bankrupt</a> hospital serving Hispanic immigrants closing | NSHP - National Society for Hispanic Professionals](<a href=“http://www.nshp.org/health/bankrupt_hospital_serving_hispanic_immigrants_closing]Bankrupt”>http://www.nshp.org/health/bankrupt_hospital_serving_hispanic_immigrants_closing)</p>
<p>Arguing about the integrity of illegal immigrants is an exercise in futility, because there are no reliable statistics on them. (Even cellardwellar’s info on payroll taxes and SS withholdings made me laugh, because at the same time on another forum, CCers were admitting to paying their hired help in cash.)</p>
<p>Both Ms. de la Cruz and her mother have been gainfully employed while living in the U.S. for 14 years, and the only way this can happen is if their employers did not ask for proper documentation prior to hiring them, or they have false documents, which is a crime.</p>
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<p>Now that you have conceded that they are gainfully employed and pay taxes, you are left arguing that they are just plain criminals. Actually, illegal immigration is not a crime. Deportation is a civil proceeding not a criminal proceeding. </p>
<p>Rudy Giuliani, certainly no left wing liberal should know!
[¡Ya</a> basta!: Unauthorized Immigration is NOT a Criminal Offense](<a href=“http://taino-red.blogspot.com/2007/09/unauthorized-immigration-is-not.html]¡Ya”>¡BASTA YA!: Unauthorized Immigration is NOT a Criminal Offense)</p>
<p>Somebody who uses a fake ID, whether social security card or driver’s license is at best guilty of a misdemeanor. If it were a crime, half of the college students in this country would be in jail. Employers have no obligation to verify that the SS # provided to them by prospective employees is legitimate. Only employers who knowingly hire unauthorized immigrants commit a crime. When the Department of Homeland Security tried to implement a no-match system requiring employers to check SS # against a national database, the system was so riddled with errors that a Federal judge had to stop its implementation. The current administration will most likely ditch the entire system. </p>
<p>As far as illegal immigrants being the main source of identity fraud, it is simply a ridiculous statement. Illegal immigrants are not seeking to steal somebody’s identity. They just need a number, any number to put on their W2. They have no way of knowing if the SS # they get is fake or belongs to somebody else. While it is true that a number of SS # used by illegal immigrants belong to other people often deceased or children), there is no evidence whatsover that they contribute a dollar to the $50 billion fraud on consumers or businesses from identity theft, according to the BBB, Pedro working for Walmart in San Diego is not the one misuing John Doe’s credit card in Buffalo or padding somebody’s hospital bill in Chicago. </p>
<p>The Bush Administration has tried to claim that an illegal immigrant found in possession of a stolen ID, even unknowingly, is guilty of aggravated theft and punishable by 6 months in jail. The Supreme Court has agreed to review the issue and may well decide differently.</p>
<p>Contrary to popular stereotypes, areas undergoing immigration are associated with lower violence, not spiraling crime, according to a 2008 study by Harvard sociologist Robert Sampson.</p>
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<p>[Immigration</a> Reduces Crime Rates | LiveScience](<a href=“http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/080318-immigration-crime.html]Immigration”>Immigration Reduces Crime Rates | Live Science)</p>