<p>cellardweller: As stated before one can make ignorant understand something but not some one who bent upon proving things that are false to begin with.</p>
<p>Don’t quote articles that doesn’t deal with illegal immigrants. Also the employment of
is a cash employment, so no taxes were ever paid.</p>
<p>zoosermom, I was poking around to see if I could find hard statistics on how much identity theft is due to various causes, e.g. swiping SSI numbers to get hired vs credit card fraud. I’m not coming up with anything I can point to support you or me. Maybe someone else can help.</p>
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<p>Two words: quantum mechanics. :D</p>
<p>That NPR piece interviewed financial professionals who were seeking out illegals as mortgage customers because these companies looked at their data and realized that this was a good market to be in. That’s not twisting statistics, that’s following market trends.</p>
<p>POIH:</p>
<p>What article are you referring to? Did you ever read them? </p>
<p>I realize English is not your first language from your confused grammar and arguments, but could you read the part that according to the SSA, 75% of illegal immigrants pay taxes, just like you? This girl’s family may actually have been paying federal and state taxes longer than you have and has not received a dime in welfare benefits from the state. What economic justification supports your D paying in-state tuition and theirs OOS?</p>
<p>I wish you would post some credible evidence to support your views rather than just spout nonsense and bigotry. I would have expected more open-mindedness from a first generation immigrant.</p>
<p>Cellardweller, once you began to call names, you lost all credibility. Shame on you.</p>
<p>Your arguments make no logical or factual sense, but we don’t want to confuse you with things like facts. </p>
<p>Your advocacy for continued illegal immigration makes you an enabler of and a party to the exploitation of vulnerable people and the destruction of indigenous cultures and families. Feel good about yourself?</p>
<p>Zoosermom:</p>
<p>I only responded to POIH personal attacks. </p>
<p>I am sorry if the facts don’t fit your xenophobic views. I don’t advocate for illegal immigration. I have just pointed that most extreme claims regarding illegal immigrants are just myths. </p>
<p>Destruction of indigenous cultures and families!<br>
Catalyst to identity theft!
Source of sub-prime crisis!</p>
<p>At least I brought up peer-reviewed studies that everybody can review, not anecdotes. You still have not brought up any serious evidence to support your outlandish claims. I understand you were going to find some credible sources for rebuttal. We are still waiting!</p>
<p>I provided you with quite a bit of information. With regard to the indigenous cultures, do some research and get educated. It is absolutely shocking that you are so uninformed yet so verbose at the same time. You can’t offer a meaningful opinion if you have no idea what you’re talking about. Which you don’t. As I said, I’ve spent thousands of hours and thousands of dollars over decades in supporting, teaching and befriending undocumented immigrants. I KNOW what I’m talking about. Every immigrant who sneaks into this country is the victim of exploitation and subject to dangerous conditions. You can look that up. Most of those people leave behind women who love and need them, as well as communities that are bereft of their skills, creativity and labor. You can look that up, too. Education is your friend. Get some.</p>
<p>^
it’s simply not an option for them to stay in their communities. they cannot get out of poverty there. they are willing to risk the exploitation and bad conditions and danger because they are so desperate. what solution are you proposing?</p>
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Investment in the home communities, accountability for the governments of the home countries. Do you know how many illegal immigrants come here because they feel they have to, not because they want to? How many would love to stay home where things are familiar and have healthcare, education, food and stability at home? THe vast majority. It’s not acceptable to force human beings to leave their home so they can be exploited. It’s less acceptable to pretend that you’re doing the right thing by them.</p>
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<p>Conceded? I never argued that these women were not paying taxes. But any taxes they pay are so insignificant as to be irrelevant to this discussion, compared to the $5 billion drain of illegal immigration on the CA economy. If you want to look just at this family, then we can estimate that the K-12 education cost of the two children (and maybe there are more who have not been mentioned in the article), probably totals over $200,000, and this does not take into account free breakfasts, lunches, and trips to the emergency room, not to mention any remittances to their home country, which total about $18 billion annually.</p>
<p>With respect to using fraudulent docs to gain employment, yes, it is a crime, punishable by fine and imprisonment. But, it sounds like you think that illegal immigrants unlawfully taking jobs is no big deal as long as they don’t get caught.</p>
<p>Providing illegal immigrants with admission to UCLA is simply another magnet and reeks of hypocrisy. It is like the State of CA shooting itself in the foot and slapping legal residents in the face.</p>
<p>I am not talking criminal issues. I am concerned about the hypocrisy of our immigration policy and its enforcement. We are all over the place in what we do about illegal immigrants. </p>
<p>I really would like to have a mass deportation or work stoppage of illegal immigrants so we can experience directly what impact these folks have on us. If indeed, they are so necessary, then we better start moving quickly to get more folks into the country LEGALLY to do the work the illegals are doing.</p>
<p>And when we get them legally, cpt, may we please know who they are and make sure that they are not ill? Drug-resistant tuberculosis isn’t even a little amusing.</p>
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<p>of course it’s not acceptable that people are forced to do this. i think trying to improve conditions and opportunities in mexico would be a good strategy to combat illegal immigration. this would require spending a large amount of money, which i have a feeling would further anger many of the people posting in this thread.</p>
<p>invest in the country?..good idea…who’s going to be doing the investing? where will the money come from?</p>
<p>hold the government accountable?..how? what will happen to them if they are unable to improve conditions? how does holding the government accountable translate into any real change?</p>
<p>double post. Hmmmm.</p>
<p>Mazatl, you may not realize this, but illegal immigrants don’t only come from Mexico. In fact, some of the people who are the least assimilable don’t come from Mexico at all. They come from Guatemala, et al., and many don’t speak Spanish, never mind English, and have no history of literacy in any language. That is very, very tough. There are also many illegal immigrants from China. Of course it would require money to assist the economies of other countries, but what’s the alternative? The current situation is as expensive as it is inhuman. As far as accountability, that’s a pretty straightforward matter, if you don’t choose to throw up your hands and accept the status quo. The countries at issue count on the remittances from the exploitation of their citizens, as well as the fact that the US will take their uneducated off their hands. At the point at which we adopt immigration policies similar to Mexico’s, the governments will have no choice but to put money into education, healthcare, etc. in order to maintain stability. It’s high time that happened. In small programs in various areas of Mexico and Guatemala, real change has been made both by the governments and by private citizens. It is possible to make things better, but never as long as so many have such a vested interest in the exploitation and ethnic cleansing. Many people who think of themselves as being enlightened and tolerant are the problem, not the solution. Are you familiar with the websites operated by women in Mexico who are begging the American government to send their men home? What would you, personally, say to those women?</p>
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<p>Amen to that.</p>
<p>It’s just so easy to howl “racist” and “xenophobe” as your knee is jerking, isn’t it? It’s much tougher to actually find out why the person holds their particular opinion and tougher still to ask if they may be onto something that you’re not – particularly if that opinion isn’t quite politically correct.</p>
<p>^ +1
political correctness has always annoyed the living hell out of me, as people are too worried about “offending” someone else to say what they want to say. Political correctness is a massive hindrance to free speech and the free exchange of ideas, IMO.</p>
<p>Zoosermom, spare us your condescending tone.</p>
<p>If you are going to seriously argue a point you should check your sources first:</p>
<p>In support of your assertion that illegal immigrants are bankrupting the US healthcare system, you link to an article by Madeleine Cosman who has been completely discredited. While introducing herself as a medical lawyer, she had no background in medicine and did not even practice law. She was never considered an authority in the field. Most of her data was simply wrong or worse made up. Among typical fictions, she claimed that there were over 30,000 cases of leprosy in the US in the past 3 years, mostly brought in by illegal immigrants. She also claimed that 80 hospitals closed because of care provided to illegal immigrants between 1994 and 2003 which is completely unsupported by any evidence. She has also claimed that drug-resistant TB brought in by immigrants is a threat to the US native born population. TB is a disease of poverty with some of the highest prevalence in the native born african-american population and recent immigrants. Among people either born in the US or in the US for more than 5 years the incidence of TB is very low and declining. Studies in numerous countries with high foreign immigration have found no spread to the native population. Just another myth. </p>
<p>Even Lou Dobbs, anti-immigration rabble rouser of the highest order recognized as much.<br>
Here is one of her typical comments, railing against Mexican immigrant men:
She goes on to attribute the behavior to allegedly lenient Mexican laws concerning rape.</p>
<p>I hope you will also spare us quotes from groups such as FAIR, CIS, NumbersUSA or any other organization run by anti-immigrant puppet-master and white supremacist John Tanton. </p>
<p>As far as getting educated about the facts on immigration and the California economy a good place to start is:
[Center</a> for the Continuing Study of the California Economy](<a href=“http://www.ccsce.com/Immigration_CA_Econ.htm]Center”>http://www.ccsce.com/Immigration_CA_Econ.htm)</p>
<p>I hope you do get educated, informed and engaged, cellardwellar because as of right now your posts are unserious parroting of propaganda. As I said, once you call names you lose all credibility.</p>
<p>For the record, I am not anti-immigration. I am pro immigrant. I don’t think you can say the same thing.</p>
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That is NOT what I said. Not even close. Lying, name calling, twisting and spinning. What a welcome addition to our online community!</p>
<p>I also notice that you haven’t addressed any of the very real issues I raised to you. Just keep repeating your talking points. How utterly boring.</p>
<p>I’m not taking sides here, so I’ll leave out comments and just post some statistics:</p>
<p>Here are some estimates on the cost of uncompensated health care in counties on the US-Mexican border from a report by the Congressional Budget Office put out in 2002.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/87xx/doc8711/12-6-Immigration.pdf[/url]”>http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/87xx/doc8711/12-6-Immigration.pdf</a></p>
<p>“county governments that share a border with Mexico incurred almost $190 million in costs for providing uncompensated care to unauthorized immigrants; that figure represented about one-quarter of all uncompensated health costs incurred by those governments in that year”. </p>
<p>However, the report also noted that if you are not a state with a Mexican border, then your costs were minor:</p>
<p>“the Oklahoma Health Care Authority estimated that it would spend about $9.7 million on emergency Medicaid services for unauthorized immigrants…the services provided to unauthorized immigrants have accounted for less than 1 percent of the total individuals served and cost less than 1 percent of the total dollars spent for Medicaid services.”</p>
<p>But then some people say that you also have to consider law enforcement costs related to illegal aliens:
According to ABC News:
[ABC</a> News: Border Counties: Crime Skyrockets](<a href=“Border Counties: Crime Skyrockets - ABC News”>Border Counties: Crime Skyrockets - ABC News)</p>
<p>“The counties bordering Mexico would rank No. 1 in federal crime if they were a state, according to a new study [released in 2006].” </p>
<p>And, of course, we know that we are spending significantly on education costs too–some would say that’s the necessary normal costs of being a country that has welcomed immigrants in large numbers for its entire history.</p>