Illegal Immigrant at UCLA

<p>Here is what you said:</p>

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<p>It is hard to believe you are pro-immigrant when you go on to link to a total nutjob who has been spewing anti-immigrant rethoric for years. If you are then you should check your sources a litle more carefully.</p>

<p>Among other unsupported assertions:</p>

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<p>Evidence? </p>

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<p>Evidence?</p>

<p>What issues have you been raising beyond promoting economic development in third world countries which I acknowledged and agreed with?</p>

<p>How does that address the issue of the status of unauthorized immigrants already in this country, who are being denied some of their most basic civil rights. </p>

<p>I have focused on the case of the girl referred to be OP and arguing that she deserves to be treated fairly. You are the one going off on some tangent rambling on tuberculosis among recent immigrants. Interesting point to debate but completely irrelevant to the discussion. </p>

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<p>Let’s see who said:</p>

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<p>Zoosermom, you are certainly no expert on immigration issues and your purported involvement with illegal immigrants does not vest with any special authority. Your bullying of people who disagree with you won’t advance your case and certainly won’t work with me.</p>

<p>Cellardwellar, you just compounded your lies for all to see. You are the bully and you should be ashamed of yourself. As far as the facts, you and I have disagreed on nothing in particular except your propensity for name-calling. Perhaps you should re-read and attempt comprehension.</p>

<p>You should also think about opening your mind a little bit because your lack of knowledge is showing.</p>

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Speaking of bullying. Here it is. You don’t get to decide what others discuss. Get it now?</p>

<p>Calcruzer:</p>

<p>I don’t dispute that illegal immigration is a financial burden to many border communities. This is largely largerly because of the failure of the federal government to fairly compensate these communities for the expenses they incur. </p>

<p>Most credible economic analyses have shown that the net surplus from immigration at the federal level is far greater than the net cost at the state level, but so far there has not been a fair compensation mechanism put in place. Even analyses at the state level such as the one from 2007 by the Texas comptroller’s office show only a very small cost if you exclude the economic benefits of immigration and a huge surplus if you include it. </p>

<p>The enforcement costs such as building multi-billion dollar fences at the border can hardly be put on the shoulders of the immigrants themselves. It has been a complete waste of resources shifting the problem from Southern California to the desert of Arizona. As every serious study has shown there is no serious security risk at the border to warrant such expense. Al Queada is not seeking to enter the US through the US-Mexico border. After all, the 9-11 terrorists all had legitimate visas to enter the US. </p>

<p>Hundreds of thousands of immigrants, including women and children, with no prior criminal history are warehoused in prisons often without the most basic healthcare services or civil rights.</p>

<p>It is possible to have a rational discussion about the effects of immigration on the US, and the issues are certainly complex, but it can’t be done by demonizing the immigrants seeking a better life in the US.</p>

<p>I believe the position on immigration outlined by the Obama administration as stated by the appointee to the Department of Homeland Security, Janet Napolitano is the correct one. They are rightly moving away from the harsh and abusive tactics of the Bush administration: raids on immigrant communities and places of employment, deportations without hearings, inhumane incarcerations of women and children, separation of children from their parents. Instead they are focusing on improving labor standards, improved healthcare in poorer communities, offering a path to citizenship to long time residents and qualified workers as well as promoting economic development in the countries of origin.</p>

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It is impossible to have a rational discussion about the effects of immigration while ignoring the people, communities and cultures left behind, as well as being completely honest about the fact that many of the immigrants simply do not want to be here. One can pretend to oneself that he or she is on the side of right, but that doesn’t make it any more than a delusion.</p>

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<p>Since this thread deals with a public University supported by state tax dollars, when is the Obama administration going to recommend that border states/counties be reimbursed for such expenses they incur?</p>

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Cellardweller:
Do you have a citation for this one? Around here when they pick up the illegals they usually just put them on a bus and drop them off back at the border.</p>

<p>From your moniker it looks like you live in Connecticut. It’s been a while since I’ve been to Ct but I imagine the numbers and impact of illegals is vastly different there than around here where it has a very obvious effect on the schools, hospitals, and all the other impacts I stated earlier.</p>

<p>Given your posts it seems as though you’re for open borders. If so, and I’m talking open borders - not legal immigration, do you really think it would work well and have more positive than negative benefits? If not, how do you rationalize that against your posts? If you don’t believe they should be open then what would you do with those who manage to make their way past the defenses and what should be done with them once they’re caught?</p>

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<p>May work for the people coming in through Mexico but won’t work for any Chinese, Middle Eastern or other immigrants, especially if they are seeking asylum. I believe that they are incarcerated in immigrant detention facilities until their case can be heard.</p>

<p>^^ Good point. That vast majority of illegals in California are from Mexico which due to it happening to be adjacent to the USA makes it easy to quickly send them back. The people from China, Eastern Europe, India, and everywhere else would be more difficult logistically to return.</p>

<p>Regardless, I question the statement that there are “hundreds of thousands including women and children warehoused in our prisons without basic healthcare…”. I don’t think it’s anywhere close to true and would like to see some evidence of this.</p>

<p>Illegal immigrants from Mexico may be dirt-poor, but they are not being persecuted, which is why we don’t offer them asylum. Their problem stems from the inept Mexican government (11th largest economy in the world), which does not take care of its poor citizens, and why should it? It knows they will simply travel north to take advantage of America’s generosity, while the Mexican government and its wealthy citizens laugh at us all the way to the bank, and flush their economy of its burdensome poor. </p>

<p>Meanwhile, American’s illegal immigrants are the elephant in the room when it comes to America’s current economy. They are the human equivalent of monetary “debt” that America has overspent.</p>

<p>ucsd<em>ucla</em>dad:</p>

<p>The immigration detention system is the dark underbelly of the current war on immigration.</p>

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<p><a href=“http://immigrantjustice.org/component/option,com_docman/Itemid,0/task,doc_download/gid,43/[/url]”>http://immigrantjustice.org/component/option,com_docman/Itemid,0/task,doc_download/gid,43/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>For an analysis of the effect on local communities. </p>

<p>[City</a> of Immigrants Fills Jail Cells With Its Own - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/27/us/27detain.html?ex=1388120400&en=253b4f62fd39ae30&ei=5124&partner=digg&exprod=digg]City”>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/27/us/27detain.html?ex=1388120400&en=253b4f62fd39ae30&ei=5124&partner=digg&exprod=digg)

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From your moniker it looks like you live in Connecticut. It’s been a while since I’ve been to Ct but I imagine the numbers and impact of illegals is vastly different there than around here where it has a very obvious effect on the schools, hospitals, and all the other impacts I stated earlier.</p>

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Even assuming that the stats indicated from the biased organization are correct, that’s a far cry from “hundreds of thousands are…warehoused”. Also, the average detention time is about 19 days (in 2007 - hopefully better now) - not exactly ‘warehoused’.</p>

<p>What do you want ICE to do with illegals when they catch them? Most of them live under the radar so it’s not as if they can just promise to appear and be let go (although I think this has occurred in the past but few ever show back up and there’s no way to find them). You might be interested that they’re using alternatives to detention as well -
[ICE</a> Fact Sheet - Alternatives to Detention](<a href=“http://www.ice.gov/pi/news/factsheets/080115alternativestodetention.htm]ICE”>http://www.ice.gov/pi/news/factsheets/080115alternativestodetention.htm)</p>

<p>So what they do for some of the illegals they catch is to detain them for as short of an amount of time as they can until they can be returned to their countries. For many illegals from Mexico this amounts to just putting them on a bus and driving south.</p>

<p>These illegals take risks to break into our country including not just arrest by ICE but also robbery and assault by the coyotes and death as they try to cross the desert in the summer. If one were to break into a store to steal something you’d take a risk and might get caught and arrested as well. If they came to this country legally rather than illegally they wouldn’t have these problems.</p>

<p>It looks like your post didn’t come across correctly after the quote of my post asking about your opinion on open borders.</p>

<p>ucsd<em>ucla</em>dad:</p>

<p>The immigration detention system is the dark underbelly of the current war on immigration.</p>

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<p><a href=“http://immigrantjustice.org/component/option,com_docman/Itemid,0/task,doc_download/gid,43/[/url]”>http://immigrantjustice.org/component/option,com_docman/Itemid,0/task,doc_download/gid,43/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>For an analysis of the effect on local communities. </p>

<p>[City</a> of Immigrants Fills Jail Cells With Its Own - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/27/us/27detain.html?ex=1388120400&en=253b4f62fd39ae30&ei=5124&partner=digg&exprod=digg]City”>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/27/us/27detain.html?ex=1388120400&en=253b4f62fd39ae30&ei=5124&partner=digg&exprod=digg)</p>

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<p>While I currently reside in Connecticut, I have lived most of my adult life in California, first on the front lines in San Diego during the immigration peaks of the 1980s and then in San Francisco, so I am quite familiar with the impact of immigration on local communities. </p>

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<p>Clearly, there is a need for immigration reform. Over 70% of illegal immigrants have been in the country for over 10 years. This is where they live, work, and are raising their families. They have no intention of ever going back to their home countries. I believe that the vast majority of these immigrants should be offered amnesty and a short path to citizenship. Most pay taxes, are law abiding and trying to make a decent living. It is simply inhumane that girls like the one in the story should remain outside of the system. </p>

<p>Additionally, more recent immigrants who can prove they have a regular income should also be offered residency under certain conditions. They may have to demonstrate some minimum proficiency in the english language, have a clean criminal record (outside of any immigration violations), be required to belong to a state mandated medical insurance program. Under some sort of parole system, they would become eligible after some waiting period of maybe 5 years. Families would also be allowed to be reunited.</p>

<p>In parallel, the SSA should set up some form of reliable identity verification system for use by employers. the E-Verify system is currently a mess and results in far more errors than is acceptable for routine use, but is probably fixable. The burden would shift entirely to the employer. </p>

<p>Under such a system there would be no need for extra-judiciary immigration detention facilities, mass deportations, border fences and immigration patrols costing the taxpayer billions of dollars. These artificial barriers have never worked anyway, just shifted the problem further down the line, burdening border communities with extra law enforcement and healthcare expenses. Immigration to the US, both legal and illegal is largely self-regulating. People come to get jobs and make a better living. Without regular job opportunities, the influx would be reduced to a trickle. </p>

<p>What I am suggesting is nothing new, it is in essence what the current administration is proposing.</p>

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So basically, as long as they’re successful in evading ICE and can manage to find some income stream then we should just clap them on the back and say “congratulations - you made it!”?</p>

<p>From your post you’re essentially advocating an open border. Remember that an open border isn’t just the border with Mexico - it’d include every border point which includes airports. There’d be such a massive influx here from all kinds of countries it’d be ridiculous.</p>

<p>I am not suggesting anything anywhere near open borders. People would still need visas to enter by air, sea or through any regular border crossing. </p>

<p>It is quite evident that mass-deportation is simply impossible. It would result in catastrophic business failures across entire industries largely dependent on the immigrants. The human effects would also be incalculable. I don’t believe anybody seriously believes it can be done. </p>

<p>Frankly, we are past the point of discussing “rewarding” illegal behavior. Most of these immigrants have been here for a long time and will end up staying: either in the shadows or in the open. One needs to move forward. Their net contribution to the US is postive by every serious study. There are very good reasons with the IRS does not report ITIN filings to the DHS. They get billions of dollars from the illegal immigrants in tax receipts. All economists also agree they don’t take jobs from americans. By legalizing their status we will remove the burden on local communities: they will be able to obtain driver’s license, get insurance. </p>

<p>The consensus is also that employer based enforcement is the only means to control illegal hiring. There is already a system in place for hiring of federal contractors even if flawed. This will remove the incentives to enter illegally. Economic development assistance would also create incentives for people to stay in their own countries. </p>

<p>Crackdowns have only been for show, result in abuses of human rights, fill jails with people with no criminal records. If we moved the billions of dollars involved in building the fence along the border to more productive uses such as providing healthcare and educational assistance to the border communities, we would avoid the current problems plaguing these towns. There is no legitimate national security interest in the fences. </p>

<p>Again, the combination of taking illegal immigrants already in the country with a demonstrated means of support out of the shadows, enforcement through employment verification, assistance through economic development and better use of border enforcement resources, is the current government’s position on immigration. Hardly an open border policy.</p>

<p>The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.</p>

<p>I heard people that came down from Canada as tourists and never left. They work for cash as house cleaners.</p>

<p>Bringing this discussion back to its original topic of the illegal alien enrolled at UCLA, today the Los Angeles Times published comments on the subject in Letters to the Editor.</p>

<p>[Letters</a> to the editor - Los Angeles Times](<a href=“http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/letters/la-le-saturday7-2009feb07,0,4335894.story]Letters”>Letters to the editor)</p>

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<p>I agree with all three of these points. Merit should always come first. That means that applicants with a 4.3 GPA should not be displaced by 3.3 GPA applicants who score 350 out of 800 on the SAT II. And when college admissions help is offered to less prepared students, it should be done so in such a way that maximizes the resources available (such as remedial English students studying the first two years at community college), and offers the best chances for the student to succeed (assigning special counselors to these types of admits).</p>

<p>Faugh.</p>

<p>UCLA admits approximately 10,000 students a year, a little more, out of 40,000 applicants. The second 10,000 who get denied are statistically pretty indistinguishable from the first 10,000. </p>

<p>The total URM population at UCLA is pretty low, such that if you made the unwarranted assumption that every URM was some sort of special circumstance, you’d barely make a dent in the pool of “more deserving” students who didn’t get in. Funny, but many of the parents of those second 10,000 applicants…or even third 10,000…seem to be sure that it was some URM who didn’t get in that took their kid’s spot. (Wonder how they feel about some of the athletes who get in on athletic hooks.)</p>

<p>It is often overlooked that colleges do not admit students. They admit classes. And diversity is a valid goal, whether it’s economic, cultural, athletic, artistic, scientific, whatever…the range of experience and viewpoints is a critical part of the academic experience. Most memorable quote I’ve seen on the subject was from a student, one who said something to the effect, “It doesn’t make much sense to have a discussion section on the affects of racism consist 15 upper-middle-class white girls.”</p>

<p>UCLA admissions saw something in Ms. De la Cruz’s application that made them think that she could make it at UCLA and that she would add something to the intellectual community. If nothing else, the article portrays her as having more passion, more guts, than most students who aren’t operating under the challenges that she is.</p>

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<p>This statement should apply to every student that UCLA admits. But UCs (and many large universities) have always been a “sink or swim/no hand holding” environment.</p>

<p>I know that Cal States have EOP programs geared to students from low income and first generation situations. I’ve known kids who have been part of this program. The program provides academic and admission assistance. These kids are not URMs.</p>

<p>They were brought onto the campus during the summer and take classes that help in adjusting to college–study skills, testing to determine which math and English classes to take, etc. People advised them with registration, tutors, progress toward graduation, etc. It gave them a support group to lean on during college.</p>

<p>I agree that this student would have been better served going to CSU Long Beach than UCLA–for many reasons. And would probably have been best served going to a smaller LAC where personal attention could have been lavished on her as a development project.</p>

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<p>Actually, it’s 55,000 applicants.</p>

<p>[UCLA</a> considering more than 55,000 applicants for 2009 freshman class / UCLA Newsroom](<a href=“http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/more-than-55-000-applicants-under-78627.aspx]UCLA”>Newsroom | UCLA)</p>

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<p>UCLA admits more financially disadvantaged students than any other university in the nation. Not only are they are very diverse financially, but racially as well, with less than 35% white students, so I doubt that a discussion session on racism would consist of “15 upper-middle-class white girls”.</p>

<p>[About</a> UCLA / UCLA Newsroom](<a href=“http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/about-ucla.aspx]About”>About UCLA: Fast facts | UCLA)</p>

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<p>[UCLA</a> Undergrad Admissions: Quick Facts](<a href=“http://www.admissions.ucla.edu/campusprofile.htm]UCLA”>http://www.admissions.ucla.edu/campusprofile.htm)</p>

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<p>Total combined Latino/Chicano/Mexican-American enrollment is above 15%, so it makes no sense for UCLA to have to admit less than qualified illegal Mexican immigrants.</p>

<p>Finally, it is against the law for California public universities to offer admissions based upon race instead of merit. And in doing so under the guise of “holistic admissions”, the University does a disservice to the unprepared students who would have more academic success at a better fit college.</p>

<p>[UCLA</a> accused of illegal admissions - Los Angeles Times](<a href=“http://articles.latimes.com/2008/aug/30/local/me-ucla30]UCLA”>UCLA accused of illegal admitting practices)</p>

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